Price check for a single stack 9mm (and WHICH ONE?)

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Felonious Monk

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Aaargh!!!
I'm frustrated in my quest for a CCW.
I'm convinced to reclassify my P32/P3AT's to BUG status, and I'm ready to get a new CCW.

I HAVE decided it's to be a single stack 9mm.
It needs to be small and reliable, and I'd prefer it to be DA/SA.

If it's going to get carried daily, I'd really prefer it be capable of pocket carry.
(As a gauge, I DON'T consider a Makarov a pocket carry gun. My KT P-11 is, but ONLY in jeans.)

Here's my thought process:
--Rohrbaugh: right size, nice, disqualified by its ridiculous price.

--Kahr: on the finalist list by default, but NOT because I naturally like them. Reliability seems good, size is okay, but I think they're too expensive, and they've done a TERRIBLE design job of taking advantage of a small, concealable package (what's with the square brick slide?) Still, if I find a killer deal, this could be the winner.

--S&W 39xx (anybody know where I can get a good price on maybe a LEO turn-in?) a little large, but one of the finalists, ESPECIALLY if I can find a TSW.
--S&W 908 ...what's the diff between this and the 39 series? Also, I can't find if this is DAO, DA/SA, or ???

--Sig 225: Very nice, but I'm afraid it's just too large.

Any hot leads on an attractively priced Smith 39xx (used or LEO turn-in)?
Any others I should consider that are no larger than the Smith?

Thanks,
Ben/FM
 
The S&W 908 is an excellent pistol. Fits my hand like very few pistols can.

The only reason I don't have one is because I prefer single action to DA/SA.

I.G.B.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

IGB-- so the 908 is DA/SA?
Lone-- P7Mx would work for me. It's just more than I want to spend. Five hundred and change is about where I max out for a purchase like this.

Anybody know anything about the STI LS? MSRP's like, $700 or so, but what's street price?
 
Is there any reason it has to be an auto??

For pocket carry, you are going to find a greater selection over on the wheelgun side of things!!

Something like a Smith M60.
.357mag is gunna give you well enough stopping power!!
It has an MSRP of $574.
Dealers are going to probably sell it cheaper.
 
Single stack 9mm are my favorite type of handgun. I have had a few and I intend to get many more.

Out of what I have had, the Kahr K-9 is the hands down best. It it worth every penny it costs but deals can be had on nice used ones as well. I got both of my SS Kahr K-9s for about $350 each! That kind of money does not often buy a gun in the class of the Kahr K-9. If you shop around, you may find a deal on a used one. If you get a Kahr, do the break in. It is very important that you run at least 200 rds through a Kahr before you carry it. Kahrs are tighter than most production guns, that is why they are more accurate. It is also why they sometimes have realibilty problems until they are broken in. I also do a feed ramp and chamber polish to my Kahrs to help them out. Once broken in, they are great. The recoil spring needs to be replaced every 2000rds or you start to be up the insides. Just do it and don't worry about it.

There are only two down sides to the Kahr K-9 in my book.:
1. It could be a little lighter for it's size. Why they don't make one out of Titanium or at least aluminum, is anyones guess. They went with plastic like every other maker out there to make the light weight version of their gun and I think it was a big mistake. I don't think the plastic guns are worth what they charge and that pretty much goes for all plastic guns! There is only one reason to go with plastic over alloy and that is maximize profits. Glocks, H&Ks, and other guns like this are over priced IMHO.

2. It would be nice if it was a true DA only or at least a DA/SA with decock. This may just be a matter of opinion but I like the ability to drop the hammer again in the rare event of a dud. Every dud I have ever had went off with a second strike. With the Kahr, you have to do the two handed pulling on the slide thing to get to another round. In a DA gun, you could just pull the trigger again, which is what you would do naturally and it would be MUCH quicker. It is a rare think to have a dud in high quality factory ammo but there is a chance. The chance may be 1 in 100,000 but if it came up when you needed it, it could be disaster.

All that being said about the Kahr, the S&W 3913 has impressed me as well. It is no Kahr but it is a nice gun. It is larger than the all steel Kahr K-9 but doesn't weigh anymore because it has an alloy frame. The major downside to the 3913 is that it has a slide mounted safety/de-cock. Like the Beretta 92, it can become engaged when racking the slide in a hurry. Also, it has a mag safety like all S&W autos. Mag safeties are a pet peeve of mine and I think they make the gun less safe rather than more so. If you got rid of the mag safety and made it a de-cock only, it would be a much better self defense gun. These things can be done so if you need it to happen, you can have a great self defense gun with a little work.

If you don't mind, SA only, the Star Firestar is a heck of a nice little 9mm for not much money. They tend to be super reliable and very accurate. They weigh the same as a Kahr but are actually smaller. I tend to think of them as SA Kahrs. The quality is outstanding on these little gems and you can often pick them up for $250 and up. If you are comfortable with cocked and locked, these are sweet.

The SIG 239 is another great choice if it fits you. I don't like the way they feel in my hand, they sit very high. They are larger than a Kahr but weigh the same. IMHO, the Kahr outclasses in every way and is just a more modern design.
 
In design and ergos, it outclasses the SIG. The SIG is a quality gun all the way but once you handle a Kahr, you see where SIG needs to catch up.
 
Well, I have been on a quest for a dedicated ccw. I've looked at the Kahrs and the S&W 39xx and considered a commander size 1911 but I really want as much safety built in as possible. Then...a guy behind the counter hands me a Taurus PT-111 Millennium Pro Titanium...WOW...it was everything I was looking for. I was really impressed with the double action smooth pull (its no sa 1911 trigger, for sure, but that's not what I'm looking for) and I liked the manual safety that functions simular to a 1911. I have since been researching them and checking out all the model and have decided to get the 40S&W version (Pt-140). I have posted some threads and so far everyone who has participated loves the weapon. Its my next purchase.
 
"I have handled plenty of Kahrs and don't see where they outclass any other pistols"

I guess light and smooth DAO trigger, impressive accuracy, ultra low bore axis, all machined SS construction, snag free design and lower recoil than other guns of the same size and weight just isn't good enough for some people. :rolleyes:

Show me what outclasses a Kahr in the same price range and size. I really want to know because I would buy it, whatever it is. I am not just saying this stuff because I am a Kahr fan, I am a Kahr fan because I think it is the best DA single stack compact pistol on the market. I have no particular bias for Kahr guns. If there was a gun that I thought was made better or had a better design, I would be touting that as the best one. All I am saying is that IMHO the Kahr is the best in it's class but that doesn't mean it is perfect either.


"Albanian-- WHERE can I get a Kahr K-9 in the $350 range?
That'll be my purchase, if it's for real."

I got one of mine at a local gunshop for $345 OTD and it was in like new cond. with two mags and all the factory goods. The other one I traded for but I paid less than $350 for the several C&R guns I traded for it. Even after shipping and FFL, I think I was below $350.

The trick is to hit the gunshops and gunshows as often as you can. Sometimes someone will have a used Kahr on consignment for less than the gunshop would normally charge or you just might find a deal. If you know anyone who has a Kahr but doesn't like it, you may be able to get it for less than you would otherwise. $350 is not unheard of around here but it is a good price so you would have to shop around. I have seen better deals on the all steel Kahrs now that the platic fantastic Kahrs have come out. I think a lot of people decided to trade in their steel Kahrs for plastic Kahrs so deals can be had. The Kahr E-9 is an economy version of the K-9 and although I think it has been discontinued, it used to sell new for somewhere around $350. You might be able to find one of those for about $300 and they are good guns as well. There is not much difference between the E-9 and K-9 so if you find a great deal on an E-9, go for it.
 
I have heard enough complaints with Kahrs reliablility problems in certain models not to trust them. Plus I despise DAO guns.
Pat
 
FM,

I would lean toward and suggest the S&W 3900 series pistol. LEO trade-ins can easily be found at www.kyimports.com, and I would also try www.cdnninvestments.com, as they carry some pistols that they don't advertise. Both 6900 series pistols I have are ex-LEO's and were(are) exceptional for the money. My 6946 is my daily CCW piece. Mike
 
"I have heard enough complaints with Kahrs reliablility problems in certain models not to trust them. Plus I despise DAO guns.
Pat"

Most of the complaints are from the new plastic Kahrs not the K-series. When the plastic Kahrs first came out, they had problems. The K-9 has a good rep. Also, I am not a big fan of DAO guns but the Kahr is a striker fired weapon like the Glock or the Para LDA. The DA trigger pull on the Kahr is unlike that on any other other DA gun. You might know that if you ever shot one but it is clear that you probably have not and you don't know what you are talking about. A lot of people have opinions about things they have never done, that doesn't mean they should be listened to.
 
Felonious Monk,
I have the S&W 952 the Dan Wesson 1911 and the Springfield 1911 in 9mm. The 952 is very accurate and if you like the grip on the S&W 39 series you would love this pistol For people who prefer the 1911 style grip you can't beat either the Dan Wesson or SA offerings. The plus with Dan Wesson is that you can have your gun customized to your personnal preferences in terms of sights etc.
Tony
 
Lets not forget that Kahrs are the same price as Sigs. Thats way too much for an american made pistol. (Suggested Retail) I think I would rather have a pistol that has proven track record over the years at those prices.

Kahr's reliability was iffy when they first hit the streets. Over time their reliability greatly improved.

There's not many handguns I haven't shot. I've seen everything from SNS to overly priced Les Baers come in for service at my gunsmith's shop. This includes Kahrs. :neener:
 
The DA trigger pull on the Kahr is unlike that on any other other DA gun. You might know that if you ever shot one but it is clear that you probably have not and you don't know what you are talking about. A lot of people have opinions about things they have never done, that doesn't mean they should be listened to.
END QUOTE

You assume too much. I have shot a karh as well as a LDA as well as a Sig DAK and HK LEM and nearly every other light trigger dao on the market. I hate long trigger guns with long resets. They are harder to fire quickly with accuracy than short trigger single action guns or glocks. They may be just the ticket for some but I prefer short crisp triggers with a short reset.
Pat
 
"Lets not forget that Kahrs are the same price as Sigs. Thats way too much for an american made pistol."

What the heck does that mean?!!!

I live in America and I know it is fashionable to run down the quality of our goods but at least in the gun market, I still think America is second to none. SIGs are great guns "but lets not forget" that the SIG slides are made from two pieces of stamped sheet metal and welded together. It works but anyway you cut it, that is a cheaper way to make a gun. Kahrs are milled from solid steel like guns used to be made. They are 100% SS and won't rust like a SIG. The DA trigger of a Kahr is better than the DA trigger of ANY stock SIG.

Remember also that SIGs ARE made in the USA now and don't even have the claim to fame of really being German anymore. Why then are SIGs so expensive I might ask? They made in the USA, they are made in a way that should be MUCH cheaper, there is no exchange rate or trade tarrif to inflate the price. They are an older design so the R&D should have been paid for long ago. They sell many more guns than Kahr so why in the world do they cost as much as a Kahr? IMO, SIGs are the guns that are over priced, not Kahrs.

The fact that Kahr is made in the USA is a reason I would buy one and not the other way around.
 
Guys, I GREATLY value your experience but not a p!$$ing contest over differences.

I've gone and measured my P-11 (should have done this FIRST); its dimensions are:

L: 5.6"
W: 1"
H: 4.3"

It fits for pocket carry in a large jeans pocket; it gets stuck badly when trying to deploy it quickly out of dockers/khakis. The troublesome measure is the height of 4.3".

The only one I'm looking at that will help that situation is a Kahr PM9, with a height of 4.0".

Guess I'll focus on that one for now, and see if I can find one to shoot.
Otherwise, I'll need to find another way to carry. Which I'm not AT ALL against, I just haven't really found an acceptable way of doing that, at least not a way which will encourage daily carry (what I'm trying to accomplish).

I still may buy the 3913LS just 'cause I like the looks and the feedback from you all.
 
Newsflash Hotshot, Sigarm's slides used to be stamped and pressed together. Not no more, Sigarm's slides are now machined out of a solid bar of steel. They wen't to machined slides when the 40S&W and 357Sig came out. Go ahead machined slides on the fullsize Sigs will say black stainless. So again :neener:
 
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