I looked in the archives first..I couldn't find a thread on primers falling out..I'm new to reloading and was loading .300 Rem Ultra Mag shells..the brass has been fired 3 times..I was charging powder and getting ready to seat bullets when I looked into the tray and saw a primer 91/2 M remington..Yes the Primer fell out!..OK..when I was seating the primer it felt alittle loose..this is the first time that the primer loaded with a loose feel and the first time ones fallin out..So I uncharged the case and of course thru the case away...What caused the primer pocket to enlarge?..Is this common on Mag rifles?..I even looked on the box of primer's to see if the manufacture had something to say..in regards to safety..One thing for sure anymore loose feel new primer's are going to put the case in the trash..Carl
Primer Problem
- Thread starter Chamacat
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7X57chilmau
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- Dec 9, 2008
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Loose primer pockets are a classic sign of overpressure on the previous load. Discard the cases, and reduce your load.
Info on this is in ANY decent reloading manual.
J
Info on this is in ANY decent reloading manual.
J
loadedround
Member
I agree with 7X57 unless you manually did something to the primer pockets like to heavily chamfering them. Hopefully you don't have a large lot of cases, since I would suggest you scrap them and start over with new cases paying close attention to reloading procedures. Please understand this is not a put down, but advice from an old time reloader who wants you to be safe, especially for your grandkids to come.
NCsmitty
Member
I recommend revisiting your charge and type of powder as well as your technique. You didn't mention your powder or charge in this thread, but it sounds like you're on the high end with the bullets that you're using.
You may be experiencing a cumulative effect from the max or near max loads over the 3 loadings.
That brass is pretty expensive, and judicious loading will make it last longer.
NCsmitty
You may be experiencing a cumulative effect from the max or near max loads over the 3 loadings.
That brass is pretty expensive, and judicious loading will make it last longer.
NCsmitty
According to one of the techs at Starline, the base of a typical cartridge normally expands .0003" each time it is fired (up to .0005" for certain rifle cartridges) . But at max load or above, it expands about .0007". You can see how that shortens the life of the brass, if it doesn't split the neck or separate the body first.
One would suspect, as all three members noted above, that you may have discharged extremely heavy loads 3 consecutive times. Total expansion would certainly loosen the primer pocket beyond its safe dimensions.
Don't forget that this is an unbelted magnum cartridge. Easy to build pressure fast.
One would suspect, as all three members noted above, that you may have discharged extremely heavy loads 3 consecutive times. Total expansion would certainly loosen the primer pocket beyond its safe dimensions.
Don't forget that this is an unbelted magnum cartridge. Easy to build pressure fast.
There are several things that make the primer pocket a bit looser, overpressure is one.
While primers of the same type are nominally the same dimensions some brands are slightly larger so if a tighter fit brand is used and you then change primer brands you can find the fit to be loose, not falling out loose but not near as tight.
Primer pocket cleaning tools will expand the pocket a tiny bit with every use and that will give you a looser fit.
Simply priming and deprimng loosens the pocket after a few loading.
While primers of the same type are nominally the same dimensions some brands are slightly larger so if a tighter fit brand is used and you then change primer brands you can find the fit to be loose, not falling out loose but not near as tight.
Primer pocket cleaning tools will expand the pocket a tiny bit with every use and that will give you a looser fit.
Simply priming and deprimng loosens the pocket after a few loading.
JimKirk
Member
I'm only saying what I saw here on the HR, I have no experience with them:
Wolf primers are slightly larger in diameter than US brands. They may fit better in your cases better. Maybe someone with first hand experience will come along.
Jimmy K
Wolf primers are slightly larger in diameter than US brands. They may fit better in your cases better. Maybe someone with first hand experience will come along.
Jimmy K
ljnowell
Member
The wolf primer may fit better, but if the primer whole is blown out like that I would be worried about a total case failure on firing. That explosion is just a little too close to the face to take that chance, IMO.
I was loading the cases with 96 grains magnum powder..and a 2oo grain nosler partition..the thing I noticed first on the bottom of the case was small circular bright spot {As if the brass was polished} you could really see it in sun...What was/is that?..It's like the cartiage is being slammed into the bolt face...All I had was 15 shells and I threw all of them away...I looked in my Nosler book and still can't find anything about the safety with primers..And that's OK with me..like I said I'm new to handloads and with great people like yourselves makes me alot better reloader..(I even asked the range master what the little bright circle was from}..And yes I have shot the cases 3-4 times..And after talking with you guys..the load chart said I was in the middle of the loads..However..I must be at the maxium load the gun will accept..actually maybe alittle to far...But it was shooting 1.5 groups at 200..Carl
USSR
Member
That "small circular bright spot" is your brass, under extreme pressure, flowing into the ejector hole. It's your rifle's way of screaming TOO MUCH PRESSURE, BACK OFF!
Don
Ok, I will have to reduce the powder charge I was at 96 grains..I will go to 94 grains and that's the start load..I will shoot one shell and look at everything...Since I don't know alot about handloads..I shouldn't go under the start load data right?...like 93.5 is under..or what do you think? what happens if one goes under the start data?.weather alittle or alot?...Carl
Dynamite Rabbit
Member
Exactly what powder are you using? 96 grains is above max for any powder in the Hodgdon online data but 50BMG.
snuffy
Member
Both of the things you've seen on your cases are indications of extreme high pressure.
The primer pocket enlarges because the case head expands too much It expands AWAY from the pocket, leaving it loose.
The other thing you said is the case head extruding into the ejector hole in the bolt face. Take a look at your bolt. See that spring loaded plunger? That's the ejector, it's normally compressed flat with the bolt face when a shell is chambered. The case head is under so much pressure, it extrudes/moves into that ejector hole. Then when you turn the bolt to extract the case, it smears the raised spot that went into the ejector hole.
Whatever that load was it WAS too much of something, regardless of what was published!
The primer pocket enlarges because the case head expands too much It expands AWAY from the pocket, leaving it loose.
The other thing you said is the case head extruding into the ejector hole in the bolt face. Take a look at your bolt. See that spring loaded plunger? That's the ejector, it's normally compressed flat with the bolt face when a shell is chambered. The case head is under so much pressure, it extrudes/moves into that ejector hole. Then when you turn the bolt to extract the case, it smears the raised spot that went into the ejector hole.
Whatever that load was it WAS too much of something, regardless of what was published!
You have many parameters to consider.....
#1 Did you use reloading data that used the brand of brass the load data was based on?
Suggest you really rework your load up and work up with more care, and you should pay close attention to signs if pressure.....you need a good reloading manual that documents pressure signs....for reference.
#2 What brand of brass? Some ie Federal is well known to have SHORT CASE LIFE ie enlarged primer pockets after 1 reload.....
#1 Did you use reloading data that used the brand of brass the load data was based on?
Suggest you really rework your load up and work up with more care, and you should pay close attention to signs if pressure.....you need a good reloading manual that documents pressure signs....for reference.
#2 What brand of brass? Some ie Federal is well known to have SHORT CASE LIFE ie enlarged primer pockets after 1 reload.....
Roccobro
Member
Are you using the right powder to the load data? Sounds like something is definitely wrong here. Hate to see such an unhappy situation.
Justin
Justin
The brass that I'm using is remington brass...the powder is Ramshot Magnum powder..it showed the load at start of 94 grains and max at 98 grains..thanks for the explanation of the "Bright Spot"...I'm gonna go look at all this data again..I don't won't to get hurt or for that matter hurt someone else out at the range...Can any of you recomend a reloading manual for "Beginners"..Seems to me that when I look at reload manuals ..it get's over my head rapidly....I'm a self taught reloader..And I love reloading for right know all I have is you guys for guidence...Carl
Dynamite Rabbit
Member
Carl
Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Speer, or Sierra manuals. Real books, not just the stapled pamphlet.
ABC's of reloading has no load data, but excellent teaching material.
They say that those of us like you and me who are self-taught in life, had a fool for a student.
Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Speer, or Sierra manuals. Real books, not just the stapled pamphlet.
ABC's of reloading has no load data, but excellent teaching material.
They say that those of us like you and me who are self-taught in life, had a fool for a student.rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Not only was this an over-load, but it was an over-load with a Nosler Partition bullet.
Those bullets create higher pressure then the same weight jacketed bullet due to the solid jacket metal partition in the middle.
You are a very lucky individual with a very strong rifle!!!
rc
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