M1911Owner
Member
I had a roomie in the dorm at school who was attempting to build a stereo amplifier. I almost got hit by a piece of shrapnel the first time he tried to fire it up.
Private Citizens and Body Armor? Good or Bad?
- Thread starter AZRickD
- Start date
- Status
Wildalaska
member
Yikes Marshall watch out, watch out ol AzRD gonna call ya silly names
WilddontwearaseatbelteitherAlaska
Invective and Body Armor
after reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of people reacted to the way Wildalaska expressed his questions. if one were to substitute "guns" or "assault weapons" for body armor in Wild's original question, it would be exactly a formulation often used by the gun banners. this, in turn, really yanked the chains of a lot of the commenters. Myself, I doubt if I would go out and buy armor, except if it looked as though it were about to be banned. I might then feel obliged to get it just to spite the banners.
after reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of people reacted to the way Wildalaska expressed his questions. if one were to substitute "guns" or "assault weapons" for body armor in Wild's original question, it would be exactly a formulation often used by the gun banners. this, in turn, really yanked the chains of a lot of the commenters. Myself, I doubt if I would go out and buy armor, except if it looked as though it were about to be banned. I might then feel obliged to get it just to spite the banners.
seeker_two
Member
The question is: Why is it a BAD thing?...
artherd
member
Is that supposed to be me?
I'm done with this thread.
thefitzvh
Member
Guys, relax... I don't think wild was trying to be "Like the antis"
Wildeveryonespickinonyourightnow,sorryalaska,
I submit that, there may NOT be utility for body armor that can stop a rifle round for private citizens. However, there's the element of "What if" that I worry about.
For example, we see a lot of incidents of crime using stolen guns, correct?
I own body armor because I've seen people try to bring all kinds of nasties into my bar, and we've had "thuglings" pull their cheap <insertbrandhere> 9mm's out to threaten other "thuglings"
My concern, and the reason that I erred on the side of caution when choosing body armor, is that one of the thuglings who wishes to do harm may have stolen a gun, and that gun might be something a little more powerful than a 9mm.
Scenario: thugling steals a gun from a gunowner's house. Said gun is, I dunno, for the sake of argument let's say it's a .223 target pistol. I've seen em, they're cool, but unmanagable for anything beyond their intended purpose.
Thugling doesn't know that. So now he has a pistol that will shoot a .223
Or thugling might have gotten ahold of an M1A. Point is, you never know what's gonna happen, so having the added rifle protection could be a good idea.
Also, I, as well as others on this forum apparently, am a member of the "nonya-damn-business-what-I-own" crowd. If a civilian wants to buy the ULTIMATE IN BODY ARMOR , he should be allowed to. Just as he should be allowed to buy select fire weapons, .50 caliber sniper rifles, etc.
Wildeveryonespickinonyourightnow,sorryalaska,
I submit that, there may NOT be utility for body armor that can stop a rifle round for private citizens. However, there's the element of "What if" that I worry about.
For example, we see a lot of incidents of crime using stolen guns, correct?
I own body armor because I've seen people try to bring all kinds of nasties into my bar, and we've had "thuglings" pull their cheap <insertbrandhere> 9mm's out to threaten other "thuglings"
My concern, and the reason that I erred on the side of caution when choosing body armor, is that one of the thuglings who wishes to do harm may have stolen a gun, and that gun might be something a little more powerful than a 9mm.
Scenario: thugling steals a gun from a gunowner's house. Said gun is, I dunno, for the sake of argument let's say it's a .223 target pistol. I've seen em, they're cool, but unmanagable for anything beyond their intended purpose.
Thugling doesn't know that. So now he has a pistol that will shoot a .223
Or thugling might have gotten ahold of an M1A. Point is, you never know what's gonna happen, so having the added rifle protection could be a good idea.
Also, I, as well as others on this forum apparently, am a member of the "nonya-damn-business-what-I-own" crowd. If a civilian wants to buy the ULTIMATE IN BODY ARMOR , he should be allowed to. Just as he should be allowed to buy select fire weapons, .50 caliber sniper rifles, etc.
Actually, right here on local news, thugling gets ahold of a sawed-off, rifle (Rem 7400, .30-30, shotgun, etc.). Or how 'bout a bigggg_ass knife?
I have one of Ayoob's books (Stressfire, as I recall) which suggest it wise for the homeowner in barracade mode utilize the following, gun, flashlight, hearing protection, and body armor.
I don't have time to find a direct quote, but here is one...
Marshall states:
Rick
I have one of Ayoob's books (Stressfire, as I recall) which suggest it wise for the homeowner in barracade mode utilize the following, gun, flashlight, hearing protection, and body armor.
I don't have time to find a direct quote, but here is one...
If you have a problem with this source, you can contact Ayoob and ask him yourself.
Marshall states:
Who here has advocated that? Your statement is a strawman and off-topic. The issue is "ownership."
Rick
Marshall
Member
Rick,
If that's what this topic is all about, why didn't you copy and paste the part of my post that says "I agree, body armor should not be banned"?
You focused on my other points because those were the ones that hit home with you. As for Ayoob, I agree, I know that the last 23 times I had reasons to barricade, I wish I would have had body armor. I know that Ayoob is like a God around here and not doing what he says is a sin against all that is good, I just don't see the need for having to build barricades. Maybe I am not paranoid enough? I also need to get a full faced Titanium/Kevlar laced helmet too, don't I? If I am barricaded and trying to shoot, my head will be what gets shot off.
If that's what this topic is all about, why didn't you copy and paste the part of my post that says "I agree, body armor should not be banned"?
You focused on my other points because those were the ones that hit home with you. As for Ayoob, I agree, I know that the last 23 times I had reasons to barricade, I wish I would have had body armor. I know that Ayoob is like a God around here and not doing what he says is a sin against all that is good, I just don't see the need for having to build barricades. Maybe I am not paranoid enough? I also need to get a full faced Titanium/Kevlar laced helmet too, don't I? If I am barricaded and trying to shoot, my head will be what gets shot off.
w4rma
member
For all I care, if someone wants to, they can walk all around town in a full suit of plated kevlar full body armor. Heck, wear a helment and a gas-mask, too, if you want.
As long as the environment in America is where folks don't feel the *need* to do that, then if a small number do, then have fun.
As long as the environment in America is where folks don't feel the *need* to do that, then if a small number do, then have fun.
artherd
member
Is that supposed to be me?
I'm done with this thread.
thefitzvh
Member
I can't believe that a thread on BODY ARMOR is turning into such a flame fest...
This, gentlemen, is what's tearing this board up. Whatever happened to disagreeing respectfully?
Geez
This, gentlemen, is what's tearing this board up. Whatever happened to disagreeing respectfully?
Geez
Well, just in case this thread stays open a little while longer I'll throw my opinion in.
I think we should be able to buy, wear, use any type of body armor we need or want. It is a purely defensive tool. Sure, a good defense aids offense, but I believe that with that type of reasoning you should tack on prison time to any criminal who uses any type of cover in a firefight. Fortunately, most criminals are too stupid or strung out to need or use these types of armor, and those who are smart enough would be smart enough to find less-than-legal means of procuring it.
If I had the money to burn I would consider buying ceramic armor. Why? It would be neat, and I enjoy arms and armor and even if the situation I was preparing for had a one-in-a-trillion chance of happening, it's my hobby and I'm not going to harm anyone.
I think we should be able to buy, wear, use any type of body armor we need or want. It is a purely defensive tool. Sure, a good defense aids offense, but I believe that with that type of reasoning you should tack on prison time to any criminal who uses any type of cover in a firefight. Fortunately, most criminals are too stupid or strung out to need or use these types of armor, and those who are smart enough would be smart enough to find less-than-legal means of procuring it.
If I had the money to burn I would consider buying ceramic armor. Why? It would be neat, and I enjoy arms and armor and even if the situation I was preparing for had a one-in-a-trillion chance of happening, it's my hobby and I'm not going to harm anyone.
Marshall
Member
Here here! The best reason spoken and I can agree with that!
I also like this part of your signature line...""I love Fabrique National""
This thread exists because Wild-half-baked-Alaska rudely attempted to hijack another thread where a person had a discounted deal on ceramic plates.
Even on-topic his question is unwarranted and pointless. He asks the question. He is offered answers, and that is not good enough for him.
Golly, why would anyone need a "safe room?"
Jeez. And on a gun board no less. No wonder our rights are at risk. Pathetic.
Rick
Even on-topic his question is unwarranted and pointless. He asks the question. He is offered answers, and that is not good enough for him.
You don't understand the concept of "barricade" in the sense of a home break-in? Do I have to start with square one with you? Do you have a clue what steps a homeowner might take to "barricade" himself? Have you heard of a "safe room?"
Golly, why would anyone need a "safe room?"
Jeez. And on a gun board no less. No wonder our rights are at risk. Pathetic.
Rick
thefitzvh
Member
Since this thread is about to get closed anyways...
He asked a question. You sir, can let it drop. He's entitled to his opinion just as much as you are entitled to your damned ceramic plates.
Geez, what this board has become
He asked a question. You sir, can let it drop. He's entitled to his opinion just as much as you are entitled to your damned ceramic plates.
... to cause a fight. I don't agree with him either, but I've got better things to do than sit here and have an internet pissing contest... Like writing my congresscritters and other such things.
Geez, what this board has become
Valkman
Member
I can't believe someone got so pissed off they started a thread solely for the bashing of another member. That's pathetic. If you've done business with WA you'd know he's a good guy that gives members here many great deals.
Marshall
Member
Rick, you need to take a pill son.
I won't unload a tongue lashing on you and put you in your place with no way out, as you deserve. And, make no mistake son, I can see exactly why you feel the need to wear body armor! I offer you friendly advise instead, concentrate on your attitude, you'll be surprised how good life can be.
I am done with you now, for your own good and as well as my own.
Taking the high road, good night.
Marshall
I won't unload a tongue lashing on you and put you in your place with no way out, as you deserve. And, make no mistake son, I can see exactly why you feel the need to wear body armor! I offer you friendly advise instead, concentrate on your attitude, you'll be surprised how good life can be.
I am done with you now, for your own good and as well as my own.
Taking the high road, good night.
Marshall
No. I started this thread to stop Wild Alaska from hijacking the other body armor thread. It was Wild Alaska who posted on that person's Buy/Sell/Trade thread the question, "Why would any law abiding citizen..."
He posted it there to start a fight. I posted here to move the fight away from another trying to conduct business without the likes of Wild Alaska piping in for his own agenda. His post was obviously not appreciated by the thread starter, nor by me. Now he has this nice little thread to have his discussion. As you can see, he's not really interested in the answers.
Anyone who thinks WA posed his off-topic, thread-derailing question out of mere curiosity and not to try to make the guy trying to set up a group buy of body armor look stupid is not up on WildAlaska's tactics.
Rick
TimW
Member
I don't know WildAlaska, so I can't say whether or not his question in the original thread was an attempt to start something or merely an innocent question. Since I don't know him, the benefit of doubt is in his favour.
However, as another poster mentioned, substitute "guns" for "rifle plates" and the question is just a variation of anti-gun arguments as to why we need X firearm. Thus, my smart-assed answer to him.
Now, if a real answer is needed:
There are "average" citizens who are doing things down along the border (whether with CHD or Ranch Rescue or private groups that get no media attention). Bad guys run dope across the border. Bad guys with guns. This means rifles. Thus, rifle plates.
Others want it for other reasons. I am not one to question why someone wants body armor...I assume for personal protection of some sort.
That's why I decided to start the group buy. It allows me to offer something which might be useful at a reduced rate, while allowing me to make some money. Everyone wins.
Do I think body armor is needed on a daily basis, or that rifle plates should be de riguer? No. But just as a fire extinguisher isn't needed most of the time in a kitchen, aren't you glad it's there just in case?
Now, another poster saw a marketing opportunity for a ballistic frumpy housecoat. I am sure I can get the company to make one if you purchased enough of them.
However, as another poster mentioned, substitute "guns" for "rifle plates" and the question is just a variation of anti-gun arguments as to why we need X firearm. Thus, my smart-assed answer to him.
Now, if a real answer is needed:
There are "average" citizens who are doing things down along the border (whether with CHD or Ranch Rescue or private groups that get no media attention). Bad guys run dope across the border. Bad guys with guns. This means rifles. Thus, rifle plates.
Others want it for other reasons. I am not one to question why someone wants body armor...I assume for personal protection of some sort.
That's why I decided to start the group buy. It allows me to offer something which might be useful at a reduced rate, while allowing me to make some money. Everyone wins.
Do I think body armor is needed on a daily basis, or that rifle plates should be de riguer? No. But just as a fire extinguisher isn't needed most of the time in a kitchen, aren't you glad it's there just in case?
Now, another poster saw a marketing opportunity for a ballistic frumpy housecoat. I am sure I can get the company to make one if you purchased enough of them.
TheBluesMan
Senior Member
This has gone on long enough.
Such rudeness as is found in this thread is not the high road.
Closed.
Such rudeness as is found in this thread is not the high road.
Closed.
- Status
