Private Security To Guard West Point

[OEF_VET]

At the Military History Institute at Carlisle, PA, there was one MP who supervised numerous security guards. Ft. Campbell, KY is still a MP operation.

4v50 Gary,

There are MP's on post who take care of the traffic and law-enforcement duties, as always. However, they've replaced the gate guards with private security. Unless of course they've fired all of them and gone back to MP's since I was there on the 5th. I've seen stranger things on that post.

As far as West Point Officers go, I've seen some really good ring-knocekers (CPT Matt Bowler, class of '95 or '96 IIRC), but I've also seen some really wretched ones, who's names I'll leave out. One of the LT's that I worked for at Campbell was a graduate of the class of 2000 and I had no respect at all for him. We had a Private in our section come up hot on a urinalysis for marijuana, for which he recieved a Field Grade Article 15. This same soldier blows off a weekend of Extra-Duty and Restriction, gets caught using another soldiers' meal card at the dining facility, and is stopped by the MP's for speeding and driving on a suspended license, all within 6 days. The CG revoked the kids' on-post driving privileges for one year, in accordance with published policy. Well, the LT didn't want to impose on the soldiers' wife, so he told the soldier to continue driving on-post, but to be careful, so as to not be caught. In other words, this West Point graduate told a Private to disregard a lawful order from the Commanding General, an order that the LT was duty bound to enforce, not countermand. After that I lost all respect for that officer. He failed the CG and that soldier.

Frank

 

[FPrice]

"Fort Lewis also has non-military guards on the gates. This must be a DOD directive."

Many installations have DoD Police as a part of their Security. They are civilian employees of the Federal Government, so non-military but still on the federal payroll with the attendent benefits and long-term costs to the gov't.

Gewehr98...

"Yup. They sure are targets of ridicule. Especially from AFROTC and Colorado Springs graduates... "

Been there, done that, got that t-shirt.

 

[Sean Smith]

I'll back Sean up on the fact that the Cadets are worked pretty hard. They lead a demanding, disciplined and rigorous life. They also have very decent accommodaitons, excellent facilities, amazing extra-curricular opportunities, gov't paid travel, lotsa leave, and plenty of perks. A service academy education really is a $100K exercise.

I don't know about "lotsa leave." Last I checked, they get at most the exact same amount of leave that anyone else in the military gets.... and frequently a good deal less. They also don't get most days off that you get in the Regular Army.

Going to the Academy is a hell of a deal in financial terms when you add it all up (spending per cadet is actually more like $250,000 last I heard ). But consider also that cadet pay scales would make a private have a seizure... In 1991 my pay was $68 a month. And no, you can't work on the side. Of course, alot of your stuff is already paid for, but it doesn't take alot of razor blades and cans of Pledge to render you utterly broke every month.

Of course, by the time I graduated I was making the princely sum of $250 a month. Woo hoo!

I see no reason why officer candidates cannot pull their turn on all the guard posts.
Doing 4 years at any of the service academies cannot be easy, but if the standard is to prepare them to lead men, they should have a full taste of what its like to be a soldier in order to properly command them.

Reading is fundamental. Did you miss the part about how they are already pulling guard duty?

A ring is no guarantee that an officer will be any good. But West Point has put out about 1,000 officers a year for decades on end. Saying stuff like "West Point sucks because I met an ??? with a ring once" is just, well, stupid.

And if there is any comfort in it for you, behind every newly commissioned officer, there is an NCO to show them what its really all about.

Not necessarily. I've met plenty of NCOs that were stupid as a stump or crooked as hell. I've also met NCOs that were worth their weight in platinum. Assuming that you should listen to an NCO just because of their stripes is like assuming you should listen to an officer just because of their shiny rank; i.e., dumb. Discovering you have earned the actual respect (as opposed to required obedience/courtesy) of the good guys is a heck of a cool feeling, however.

 

[Delmar]

Well Sean, thank you too for your service.

$68 per month? I am assuming this is for the first year or was this the salary for the entire 4 years?

Agreed on the rank and relative intelligence. Out of my military career, I had both a platoon sgt and platoon leader who knew what they were doing a precious couple of times. Thought I was in heaven

 

[OEF_VET]

CPT Bowler use to lament that he recieved a $250,000 education, shoved up his fourth point of contact a nickel at a time.

 

[Sean Smith]

CPT Bowler use to lament that he recieved a $250,000 education, shoved up his fourth point of contact a nickel at a time.

That's a common joke there.

I can't claim that West Point, at least circa 1991-1995, was the ideal way to make officers. Alot of it was miserable, but not related to making people into officers in any rational way I could figure out. Supposedly they have "reformed" things a bit to make it more about preparing cadets to be officers, vs. putting them through crap for its own sake. On the other hand, it was alot stronger preparation than some of the alternatives, on average.

 

[XLMiguel]

$68??

IIRC, base monthly pay for a cadet was 1/2 of a 2nd Lt. Not a princely sum, I'll admit, but more than adequate for razor blades & Brasso. Given that I was making $124.50/mo. as a basic trainee in 9/70, so someone will have to 'splain that to mesome more.

I met alot of fime officers (and officers in training) who I'd follow anywhere while I was there, and also a fair number of proctologically-challenged brass hats who I wouldn't let watch my cat. Cross section of society, don'cha know.

My biggest gripe was the wide spread inability of many of the Corp of Cadets to recognize the presence of other intelligence in the room. There was a lot of condescention towards the EM in general, never mind that the majority of us already had a degree or two or were other wise accomplished (e.g. many of the trainers were Olympic athletes doing their service) in some sort of endeavor. Skrew-ups and 8-balls did NOT get posted to USMA. Fortunately, Cadets had no authority over RA.

All in all, the service academies and the officers they have produced have served this country very well and have produced many fine leaders who served the country honorably o and off the battlefield and long after their military careers were over. But just like the folks coming out of Harvard Med School or anyother 'elite' institution, the bottom 1/2 of the class goes into practice, just like the top half, and the difference isn't always clear in the short term.




__________________________________________________________________

 

[Sean Smith]

IIRC, base monthly pay for a cadet was 1/2 of a 2nd Lt.

Not even close. At least not in 1991-1995. I've still got the LES's sitting in a box someplace. The pay went something like $68/$150/$210/$250 a month for each year from Plebe/Yearling/Cow/Firstie. That's the money that actually was deposited in your checking account; "on paper" (i.e., the congressional approved pay rate) we got $571/month. However, we never actually got paid more than a fraction of that; the bulk was pre-allocated to uniforms, haircuts, and so forth. The current West Point web site says they get $600/month now, but I don't know how much of that is actually paid to them & how much winds up disappearing before they ever see it.

As an aside, cadet pay hasn't been linked to second lieutenant pay for a very long time...

http://www.aog.usma.edu/PUBS/assembly/980910/super.htm

By way of comparison, the current base pay for a 2LT with under 2 years is $2,264.40, and the current base pay for a E-1 with under 4 months of service is $1,104.00. So West Point cadets make a little better than 1/2 that of the lowliest E-1, and about 1/4 that of an O-1.

http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2004paytable.pdf