Professor calls cops on student

[209]

First, the University Police Deparments within the CSU system, which consists of ECSU, SCSU, WCSU, and CCSU [and by the way, also UCONN although UCONN is a separate school] employ certified municipal police officers hired by the State of CT to work at the universities. They have a job description that differs a bit from what most municipal police officers have and they have additional duties as part of their job. One of those is to enforce the policies of the institution and they also document violations of the same and forward those reports to the appropriate university office for review.

All very legal and their police powers are covered under 10a-142: The members of each "special police force" shall have the same duties, responsibilities and authority under sections 7-281, 14-8, 54-1f and 54-33a and title 53a as members of a duly organized local police department. In essence, that law made each campus its own “little city” and formed a police department for that “city”. Those statutes referred to in that excerpt are the same ones that apply to municipal officers working in any town or city in CT.

So, yes Virginia- they are "real" police officers.

They investigate complaints of both statutory violations and also policy violations. They arrest people for crimes. They also refer people to Student Affairs for policy violations. Because they are employed by a institution of higher education, they are also mandated to follow certain federal laws, one main one being the Clery Act.

Since I haven't had a chance to ask anyone at CCSU PD exactly happened in this incident, I can't vouch for the veracity of the complaint or the information in the articles. Unless someone here has any more information regarding exactly what the professor told the police, we are blowing hot air at alleged police misconduct. The complaint may have been sufficient in content to require police investigation.

Trust me, any university police department that fails to investigate a complaint alleging potential violence will soon have some open slots to fill. People will lose their job, and if the complaint is blown off and something actually does occur, those involved lose much more than their jobs. Until we know what the substance of the complaint was, we don't know, and frankly shouldn't be saying, there was misconduct. In the meantime, I assume the police used due diligence and investigated the complaint. I also assume since the student wasn't arrested, the complaint was found to be somewhat overblown, maybe even unfounded. Depending on the outcome of the investigation, there may be some some student judicial matters ongoing that involve FERPA concerns which can eliminate the ability of the police to comment. Welcome to procedure created by badly written laws- both federal and state.

Going hand-in-hand with that, I doubt too many people here know the exact procedure the CSU Police are required to follow when receiving complaints that allege threats and/or violence. If you want to spend some time going brain dead, try reading the mandated procedure set forth by Clery for investigating complaints- and that's just one law that needs to be adhered to. Between the federal laws, the state laws, and the university policies University Police must follow, they are well within policy to investigate many things a normal municipal PD wouldn't. It's all very legal and, because of those mandates, they are, in fact, required to do so.

 

[ChCx2744]

WOW. So let me get this straight...

Government employees (the teacher AND the campus police) violated NOT ONLY the guy's FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, but his SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AS WELL!!!!

First of all, that sounds like an awful case of irony.

Secondly, coming from a government employee's opinion (mine), Maybe the aforementioned school needs to reconsider who they hire to supervise, teach and/or enforce on the campus.

0.02

 

[SCKimberFan]

Trust me, any university police department that fails to investigate a complaint alleging potential violence will soon have some open slots to fill.

Where was the potential violence? He never advocated any violence. None. (Based on the article as written.)

 

[IN>IL]

Fortunately, my students feel safe discussing guns with me either during class or during office hours!

Unfortunately, my students know they can get me off topic by saying a Glock is superior to the 1911, or by mentioning guns in general.

That's the way this professor rolls!

mrh

 

[rbernie]

Where was the potential violence? He never advocated any violence. None. (Based on the article as written.)

We are now to the point where the mere mention of a firearm is institutionally treated as a potential threat or source of violence.

This is why a lot of folk in the RKBA community have been harping on the notion of a 'culture war'. It *is* a culture war, in which firearms are slowly being purged from our culture and interest in them is stigmatized.

And this war is being fought in the schools moreso than anywhere else.

 

[Gamera]

Well said rbernie. Well said.

 

[IN>IL]

You are exactally right rbernie... I am a professor and before school started we had an inservice on how to recognize "assault guns" (yes, assault guns) in case a student had one on campus. We were told to at least document anytime a student talks about guns openly on campus.

I just stood on my soapbox for 20 minutes this morning yelling about constitutional rights and how Illinois is "pi$$ing on the ENTIRE Bill of Rights" by acknowleging a bill in the general assembly requiring a $1,000,000 insurance policy for firearms owners. One kid even said, "the only purpose of guns is to kill people so I see no problem banning them It's just the same as requiring insurance for your car."

I am lucky enough to have a core group of students who know me and know my stance on Second Amendment issues and told the kid who made the comment that he, "probably just failed this class."

Perhaps I need to document myself for speaking openly about guns!

 

[Texian]

This is just sad....

 

[Duke of Doubt]

In>IL: " I am a professor and before school started we had an inservice on how to recognize "assault guns" (yes, assault guns) in case a student had one on campus."

I'll remember to keep my StuG III across the Indiana state line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_gun

 

[rainbowbob]

I am lucky enough to have a core group of students who know me and know my stance on Second Amendment issues and told the kid who made the comment that he, "probably just failed this class."

Oh boy...Here we go again.

IN>IL: I'm trying to imagine what course you could possibly be teaching that would result in a failing grade for a student who doesn't hold the same views that you do (on the 2A or any other issue). Apparently you require your students to parrot your positions on political and cultural issues or flunk the course. Please explain how that kind of "intellectual" coercion is helpful to the cause of either first or second amendment rights? It sounds like you are as guilty as the instructor in the OP of bullying your students into "getting their minds right". Perhaps you should focus more on engendering critical thinking skills in your students. I thought that was the point of this thread

 

[IN>IL]

Rainbowbob... you're the guy who ruins boards like this by reading a little too far into things! The point of that entire post was to show that I am a pro second amendment professor on a campus that hates guns and I do nothing to hide my stance.

Are you that stupid to actually believe I can fail a student for not agreeing with me about the Second Amendment? Another student in my class made that "you fail" comment, which simply means he knows my stance on the Second Amendment, and not that it has some magical power to effect a student's grade. Nor does it mean the student who does not understand our constitutionally protected activities actually gets a failing grade.

As for critical thinking, you have no idea where I took the rest of that lecture beyond that one comment the student made, so settle down a bit and quit jumping the gun looking for a keyboard fight on some annonymous message board. I know you probably get off by "winning" keyboard battles on these boards, but at the end of the day Rainbowbob, you're just fighting amongst your own peers with simular thoughts and actions, which does nothing in our fight for the RKBA.

 

[rainbowbob]

Another student in my class made that "you fail" comment

IN>IL: My bad...I misread your post and thought it was you who made that comment to the offending student.




Nevermind....

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

IN/IL, you need to edit.

 

[DCR]

A proposed remedy

The offending professor should be required to participate in a one-year university exchange program with Idaho State University in Pocatello. As part of her rehabilitation and sensitivity training, she should be required to attend the annual Pocatello gun show, held in the Student Union Building ballroom , and assist admission staff in checking firearms coming in and going out the door. Immersion programs work well for learning language - why not for Second Amendment/political science education?

 

[Claude Clay]

This just in

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504524,00.html

anyone who knows how to drag it over in its entirety, please do so.

fox went ahead with a 'report' after contacting Wahlberg and Adler for interviews sunday and monday and both declining.
i rather think it is neutral reporting though Duquette sure has a lot of a$$ to cover.

Thank You SCKimber

 

[Deanimator]

You are exactally right rbernie... I am a professor and before school started we had an inservice on how to recognize "assault guns" (yes, assault guns) in case a student had one on campus.

A major clue is the absence of a turret, coupled with a direct fire, large bore gun.

One of the great joys in life is mocking buffoons, especially when they don't know they're being mocked. If I were you, I'd put together a poster of an SU-152 or an StuG III, with text advising students to IMMEDIATELY notify campus security if they suspect someone might have one on campus. It'd be worth the money to have it printed up at Kinkos.

 

[SCKimberFan]

A professor in Connecticut reported one of her students to the police after he gave a class presentation on why students and teachers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. Now, free speech activists say the professor’s actions are what really need to be investigated.

Last October, John Wahlberg and two classmates at Central Connecticut State University gave an oral presentation for a communications class taught by Professor Paula Anderson. The assignment was to discuss a “relevant issue in the media,” and the students presented their view that the death toll in the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre would have been lower if professors and students had been carrying guns.

That night, police called Wahlberg, a 23-year-old senior, and asked him to come to the station. When he arrived, they they read off a list of firearms that were registered in his name and asked where he kept them. Guns are strictly prohibited on the CCSU campus and residence halls, but Wahlberg says he lives 20 miles off-campus and keeps his gun collection locked up in a safe. No further action was taken by police or administrators.

“I don’t think that Professor Anderson was justified in calling the CCSU police over a clearly non-threatening matter,” Wahlberg told The Recorder, the CCSU student newspaper that first reported the story. “Although the topic of discussion may have made a few individuals uncomfortable, there was no need to label me as a threat.”

Wahlberg declined to comment further to FOXNews.com, saying he did not want more media attention.

According to The Recorder, Anderson cited safety as her reason for calling the police.

“It is also my responsibility as a teacher to protect the well-being of our students, and the campus community at all times,” she told The Recorder. “As such, when deemed necessary because of any perceived risks, I seek guidance and consultation from the Chair of my Department, the Dean and any relevant University officials.”

Anderson did not respond to calls from FOXNews.com. Campus police forwarded requests to university spokesman Mark McLaughlin, who declined to comment, citing Wahlberg’s privacy.

Robert Shibley, vice president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), said Anderson's actions appeared to be out of line.

“If all he did was discuss reasons for allowing guns on campus, it seems a bit much to call the police and grill him about it,” Shibley said. “If you go after students for just discussing an idea, that goes against everything a university is supposed to stand for.”

Shibley said FIRE has seen many more cases of hair-trigger responses by administrators over anything gun-related since the Virginia Tech shooting.

In 2007, Shibley noted, a student at Hamline University in Minnesota was suspended after writing a letter to an administrator arguing that carrying concealed weapons on campus may help prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech. The student was allowed to return only after undergoing a psychological evaluation, he said.

Shibley also cited an incident at Colorado College last year in which campus administrators denounced a flyer as "threatening and demeaning content" because it mentioned guns. He said the students who produced the flyer were found guilty of violating the school’s violence policy, which was added to their school records.

“It is, of course, important that administrators identify real threats to students,” Shibley said. “But they need to use logic to discern whether a threat is real.”

But Jerold Duquette, an associate professor of political science at CCSU who sits on the Faculty Senate Committee on Academic Freedom, say the Wahlberg case is not so clear-cut.

“This is a situation where both sides can come up with a reasonable explanation,” Duquette said.

“[Wahlberg] certainly has a reason to complain, since he didn’t do anything directly threatening. But I wouldn’t say the administration has a reason to sanction or punish the professor or the police.... I don’t know if I would have done anything differently in the situation.”

Katie Kasprzak, a spokeswoman for the group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, suggested that the professor called the police because she disagreed with Wahlberg’s political views.

"Critics of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus argue that colleges and universities are dedicated to the free flow of ideas,” she said. “Yet when a student gives a class presentation on a relevant issue in the media, it is acceptable to label the student as a threat? The only threat posed was a threat to the professor’s personal beliefs.”

Duquette said there was no evidence to support that.

“I think a lot of people see this as a liberal professor going after a student because he likes guns. I don’t know if that’s the case,” Duquette said, adding that more would need to be known about the incident.

Here is the story from Fox News.

 

[Deanimator]

 

[shooter429]

safety and violence prevention?

I wonder if someone did a presentation questioning counterterrorism and Muslims on campus, if she would call the cops? Just rediculous.

 

[Dashman010]

Duke...

I'm still laughing at the idea some here insist on that the dim student somehow was deprived of his First and Second Amendment rights by the nutty professor. If you start telling me in my own home that my .45 has inadequate stopping power, and that .44 Magnum is the only ticket, and I throw you out of my house, have I deprived you of your First and Second Amendment rights, too?

A few things to clarify the standing of a student with regard to legal action under the 1st amendment. CCSU is a state funded University. Under the law of CT, they are funded by the tax dollars, and I'm assuming the Board of Regents (or similar board) is selected by State Officials. This makes the university a "state actor." Being a state actor, the University, and the professor in her official capacity, are subject to a 42 USC 1983 action for violation of civil rights. In that case that would be first amendment rights.

Bottom line, a state run and funded university is not the same as a private university (which would equate more with your home example). The university is absolutely subject to the Bill of Rights.

As to whether second amendment rights have been violated, I don't believe they have, but suit could still be filed, with standing, alleging so.

 

[209]

Quote:
Trust me, any university police department that fails to investigate a complaint alleging potential violence will soon have some open slots to fill.

Where was the potential violence? He never advocated any violence. None. (Based on the article as written.)

Have you seen a copy of the professor's complaint? Probably not. Neither have I. And I rarely use a media source when determining the complete story. Usually there are pieces missing.

Now... today... days after the incident occurred...., based on the newest article, it indicates the student did not advocate violence. However, none of us were there when the professor talked to the police and none of us know what the gist of that conservation was. We don't know what she reported. My statement stands- if the police received a complaint alleging potential violence, they must investigate if they believe the complaint has any substance to it.

Since there are obviously a lot of people working on assumptions around here, I guess I get to make my own. So, I assume the complaint received by the police warranted investigation. I also assume the professor exaggerated. But that doesn't mean when the complaint is received, the police don't have to investigate. I assume the police did an investigation. That would mean they did their job.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Dashman010: "A few things to clarify the standing of a student with regard to legal action under the 1st amendment. CCSU is a state funded University. Under the law of CT, they are funded by the tax dollars, and I'm assuming the Board of Regents (or similar board) is selected by State Officials. This makes the university a "state actor." Being a state actor, the University, and the professor in her official capacity, are subject to a 42 USC 1983 action for violation of civil rights. In that case that would be first amendment rights."

During times like this winter when most of my private clients are making mayhem in warmer climes, I take court appointed cases too, for which I am paid by the court, using tax dollars, as an officer of the court. Am I a "state actor," too?

"Doubt it, doubt it, doubt it, doubt it, Disco Doubt ...."

 

[rbernie]

When you're generating billable hours to the state, I would imagine so. When you're browsing THR - not so much.

 

[jard]

Hey DCR, I had no idea that Idaho State University has a gun show every year in the Student Union Bldg!!


That is awsome.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

"When you're browsing THR - not so much."

rbernie, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.