Progressive Press Preference?
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Actually it was reported in a Handloader magazine article a few years ago. I read it myself. The RockChucker press was cast in China (for some period of time) but the machining was done in the US. I understand that the casting was switched back to the US in order to get more consistent quality. I have RCBS dies, measure, press, and other items. They make good stuff and I have no issue with buying more. - Phil
GW Staar
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These days, one reasonable guess might be how weight effects the cost of shipping, in other words, an effort keep costs down. Another is machining costs. Machining hard cast iron is harder on tools than machining aluminum, again a cost consideration. Why RCBS hasn't follow suit is anybodies guess, but they shouldn't be faulted for it, or called inferior. Lee is moving the other way with their Classic Turrets, and Classic Cast presses. Most people seem to like the results.
I will ask RCBS again, more pointedly, if Rock Chucker castings were ever done in China. He did specifically say that Pro 2000's were always cast and machined in California....close, but not quite another country. If they ever did use China, I'm glad they repented.
I know one thing for sure...if I was to ever get a bad lemon of a press, I know they would replace it within days, no questions asked.One more thing Phil...I know you mean no harm, but it would be helpful if you could find the article and tell us which issue. I have many years of the mag...I'd like to read it myself. Meantime, tomorrow I will send RCBS another email on the subject.
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2inchpattern, Here's my 2 cents worth. I have a RCBS rockchucker single stage press that I started out with in 1971 & have loaded everything from 9mm up thru 7mm mag. Yes its slow but a beautiful hand crafted press. I was having some issues & was told to contact RCBS, this was last year. They listened to my complaint then told me what they thought it needed. The tech said he would send me the new parts necessary to repair my press & that there would be no chg. They sent the parts out the same day, I got them & installed. Works like a new press. I was told by the tech that if that the parts didn't fix the press, then send it to them & they would replace it @ no charge. I couldn't believe my ears, a press that I had used for all thoughs years & still be under full waranty. Since then I had a problem with a bench primer the same age that I found in back of a shelf . Hell I was ready to throw it out. But I called them & it was the same story. They shipped me some new parts, I installed the parts & now I just love my RCBS bench primer tool. Works wonderful & fast also. I can really feel the primers seating, don't know how I got by so long with out it. My point is RCBS is a wonderful co. & they really care about their customers. I also own a dillon 650 press, I have only had it for apx 5 or 6 years & have loaded 45 acp & 38 spec both on it. It is also a wonderful press, just a lot harder to set up when you first get it. After you get it set up, Man can you load a lot of rds & quick. I haven't had any problems up to now. I'm sure if I had ,they would be there for me. It was not cheap to buy. I'm not sorry that I bought it.Thought I would throw in my 2 cents. Only remember RCBS is a wonderful co, when your weighing out the diff. co's. I wouldn't give up my rockchucker & still use it all the time & love it. You'll find a ton of guy;s on these diff. web sites feel the same way about their rockchuckers & a lot of them about the same age as mine. I wouldn't hesitate buying a RCBS product ever ! I wish you happy shooting & good luck on your new press selection. K&J 223
Lost Sheep
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Don't keep us in the dark, please
Welcome to the forum and to reloading. And thanks for asking our advice.
We can advise a whole lot better if we know something about you. How much do you shoot, of what cartridges? How much do you plan to reload in an average loading session? How many different chamberings would you do in one loading session - that is how often would you change setups? What's your budget?
Without those parameters, we are shooting in the dark, so to speak.
I just entirely repopulated my loading bench for about $500 (5 calibers) and I can add calibers for $33 to $46 apiece. I found I had overbought some stuff and was underequipped elsewhere. So, armed by my 3 decades of self-knowledge, I shopped around and put together a first-class bench. But if it doesn't suit your needs, you will be as unhappy as I was with my mis-selected gear. So, share with us what are your needs, please.
Lost Sheep
2inchpattern,2inchpattern said:
Welcome to the forum and to reloading. And thanks for asking our advice.
We can advise a whole lot better if we know something about you. How much do you shoot, of what cartridges? How much do you plan to reload in an average loading session? How many different chamberings would you do in one loading session - that is how often would you change setups? What's your budget?
Without those parameters, we are shooting in the dark, so to speak.
I just entirely repopulated my loading bench for about $500 (5 calibers) and I can add calibers for $33 to $46 apiece. I found I had overbought some stuff and was underequipped elsewhere. So, armed by my 3 decades of self-knowledge, I shopped around and put together a first-class bench. But if it doesn't suit your needs, you will be as unhappy as I was with my mis-selected gear. So, share with us what are your needs, please.
Lost Sheep
jfh
Member.
Anyone wanting to see all brands of presses
--at least online--should visit The Ultimate Reloader.
Gavin's videos are of excellent quality, and you can see all the major (progressive) presses in operation.
Jim H.
--at least online--should visit The Ultimate Reloader.
Gavin's videos are of excellent quality, and you can see all the major (progressive) presses in operation.
Jim H.
jfh
Member.
jmorris raised the relevant point--
i.e., that five of your calibers will be best served by a single stage or turret press--the rifle calibers, save for .223
that leaves three--9mmP, .45ACP, (handgun) and .223 that can be reliably and quickly reloaded using a turret or progressive. The Lee Turret, with its easily-removable auto-indexing feature, may well be the best of all worlds, in one press, for you. At least, it is a better place to start than with a progressive.
So, with those observations in mind, here is the link to the all-time-best Lee Turret review.
Note that covers reloading .338 (IIRC) as the rifle round du jour for the review.
Jim H.
i.e., that five of your calibers will be best served by a single stage or turret press--the rifle calibers, save for .223
that leaves three--9mmP, .45ACP, (handgun) and .223 that can be reliably and quickly reloaded using a turret or progressive. The Lee Turret, with its easily-removable auto-indexing feature, may well be the best of all worlds, in one press, for you. At least, it is a better place to start than with a progressive.
So, with those observations in mind, here is the link to the all-time-best Lee Turret review.
Note that covers reloading .338 (IIRC) as the rifle round du jour for the review.
Jim H.
GW Staar
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jmorris
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I understand what you are saying but is he going to load 200 257 Roberts at a time (does he even have that many empty cases?).
Don’t get me wrong , I love and do most all of my loading on progressives. However, I don’t like fiddling with presses too much so I tend to keep my 8 different progressive presses set up in the calibers that I load most often. I even have two of each model so I don’t have to mess with primer system changes from large to small, when I do load different rounds. That is my preferred method but is quite expensive, many thousands of dollars invested over many years. Even with all of the machines that I have I still use other non progressives for odd ball stuff as it’s faster and I don’t have to add on to the house to add more machines to the reloading room to get the job done.
Here is one of my turret presses with dies set for 6 different chambering and two powder measures on a bar stool, that’s compact. Not to mention you can swap from one to the other faster than you can find the tools to do it on a progressive and the only “conversion” cost is a shell holder if your die set didn’t come with one.
Almost all of the rounds I load on single stage or turret presses I load less than a hundred, on average, a year and just don’t warrant the extra costs involved. The OP’s situation might be different but some on his list are pretty obscure. I picked up the turret press above used for less money than 1 Dillon caliber conversion or Hornady bushings and shell holder costs.
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2inchpattern
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More detail on my reloading plans...
As I mentioned back in the beginning, I am planning to reload for weapons with a number of different calibers. Barring unexpected "life changes" I anticipate my shooting and associated reloading efforts to be roughly as follows on a monthly basis:
9mm - 2000 rounds per month (rpm);
45ACP - 2000 rpm;
223 - 1000 rpm;
257 Roberts (last year I had a gunsmith in TN build this for me so I need to exercise it sufficiently to become "good" enough to shoot my 2 inch patterns at 200 yds) - so 500-700 rpm(?),
270 Win (the same gunsmith took a Richards Microfit stock I provided him and built me a sweet 270 with a Mauser action and some other goodies and I need to become as "good" with it as with my 257 Bob) - so 500-700 rpm(?);
30-06 (inherited my dad's and my brother's '06's and need to get as good with them as they were - again the 2inch pattern at 200 yds) - 500-700 rpm;
30-40 Krag - 200 rpm;
338 Win Mag - 100 rpm.
...For a total of about 7500-8500 rounds per month across the 8 calibers. Ultimate goal is to be able to shoot smaller patterns at longer distances than my buddies at the gun clubs (yes, of course I have an ego) and to carry this into the field so I can stock up my freezer with vennison, elk, moose, and pigs.
Prospective reloading equipment budget would ideally be between $1000 and $1500 plus incrementals (bullets, powder, brass, primers). Does this sound reasonable?
As I mentioned back in the beginning, I am planning to reload for weapons with a number of different calibers. Barring unexpected "life changes" I anticipate my shooting and associated reloading efforts to be roughly as follows on a monthly basis:
9mm - 2000 rounds per month (rpm);
45ACP - 2000 rpm;
223 - 1000 rpm;
257 Roberts (last year I had a gunsmith in TN build this for me so I need to exercise it sufficiently to become "good" enough to shoot my 2 inch patterns at 200 yds) - so 500-700 rpm(?),
270 Win (the same gunsmith took a Richards Microfit stock I provided him and built me a sweet 270 with a Mauser action and some other goodies and I need to become as "good" with it as with my 257 Bob) - so 500-700 rpm(?);
30-06 (inherited my dad's and my brother's '06's and need to get as good with them as they were - again the 2inch pattern at 200 yds) - 500-700 rpm;
30-40 Krag - 200 rpm;
338 Win Mag - 100 rpm.
...For a total of about 7500-8500 rounds per month across the 8 calibers. Ultimate goal is to be able to shoot smaller patterns at longer distances than my buddies at the gun clubs (yes, of course I have an ego) and to carry this into the field so I can stock up my freezer with vennison, elk, moose, and pigs.
Prospective reloading equipment budget would ideally be between $1000 and $1500 plus incrementals (bullets, powder, brass, primers). Does this sound reasonable?
GW Staar
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I understand what you are saying but is he going to load 200 257 Roberts at a time (does he even have that many empty cases?).
From his last post...I'm guessing he does. He could clear that up for us. No matter, though, both points taken.
Don’t get me wrong , I love and do most all of my loading on progressives. However, I don’t like fiddling with presses too much so I tend to keep my 8 different progressive presses set up in the calibers that I load most often. I even have two of each model so I don’t have to mess with primer system changes from large to small, when I do load different rounds. That is my preferred method but is quite expensive, many thousands of dollars invested over many years. Even with all of the machines that I have I still use other non progressives for odd ball stuff as it’s faster and I don’t have to add on to the house to add more machines to the reloading room to get the job done.
Here is one of my turret presses with dies set for 6 different chambering and two powder measures on a bar stool, that’s compact. Not to mention you can swap from one to the other faster than you can find the tools to do it on a progressive and the only “conversion” cost is a shell holder if your die set didn’t come with one.
Point also taken. But you are a damn lucky special case! An anomaly! I'm always amazed at your collection of equipment and what you do with it. My budget, space, and luck in finding good deals will never compare to yours! I have two presses, one of them a good progressive, and I feel fortunate enough...ah...so far.
Almost all of the rounds I load on single stage or turret presses I load less than a hundred, on average, a year and just don’t warrant the extra costs involved. The OP’s situation might be different but some on his list are pretty obscure. I picked up the turret press above used for less money than 1 Dillon caliber conversion or Hornady bushings and shell holder costs.
Two points made in your last statement (which I highlighted red). Proof that you are born lucky!
... and that owning a single Dillon 650 and planning on loading many calibers on it using their caliber conversions and quick change kits, is an expensive proposition. Having analyzed that when I was looking for a progressive to do what I wanted...I bought the green press. I wasn't disappointed.BTW, take a picture of your whole setup and show it to us!....That would be
, and I promise not to 
Ok that last smilie is a lie.
jmorris
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On a 30 day month, that's 283 rounds a day, only 133 of them being pistol rounds and most of the rifle shots you are looking for "precision".
It's reasonable if you are retired or own and work at a gun range. 102,000 rounds of mostly rifle rounds will cost enough money that the presses you choose won't make any difference in your pocket book. Make sure your insurance is up to date too, so it will be covered when you have your shoulder looked at.
It's reasonable if you are retired or own and work at a gun range. 102,000 rounds of mostly rifle rounds will cost enough money that the presses you choose won't make any difference in your pocket book. Make sure your insurance is up to date too, so it will be covered when you have your shoulder looked at.
GW Staar
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Initially yes. If the hobby takes...down the road no.
I still maintain the point on my first post...with an addition (pointed out my Jmorris). A really good start would be a single station (or turret press), for case prep as well as loading small batches. That first choice gets you going way cheaper, especially if you buy the two well-built Lee products. Classic Cast (single station) or the Classic Turret. RCBS Rock Chucker is a good choice as well, but a little more expensive (as are the other turrets). All the dies you buy for them will work just fine on a later progressive.
On progressives, initial press cost with feeders will be a little above $700. No matter what brand...except Lee. Then you've got to buy dies, case holders, tool heads (or LnL bushings) for all the calibers you want to load. [Start with what you shoot most...learn your system....then add as you wish....no need to have all that stuff sitting around until you learn the basics.]
Additional costs are case prep tools (and/or equipment) A good scale, and case gauges and a good caliper. The vaunted Giraud Trimmer costs a lot of money and will break your budget, but there are cheaper choices. I like the Forster "Original" Trimmer. To which you can later add a 3-way cutter for each cal. neck size and a power adapter. Others get by even cheaper, with the Hollow Possum tool chucked in a drill. You can also break the bank with the vaunted RCBS electronic computerised scale and trickler, but you don't need to spend that much.
You gotta have clean brass...and you may want pretty brass too, so a tumbler may be in your future. Loading manuals...etc...ref. reading material.
As you can see your question is difficult to answer.
To "Morrow" in the post above. We're doing the best we can, and if you re-read this you will find a lot of good information. We all would welcome any post with more information to help him. Your critical post isn't one of them. Waiting for the informational one....
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Good one Mod, pretty sure I'll be dead by then.
As for the OP, I have never owned any other than the LnL I just recently purchased. I very much like it. The 5 stations and price were some of the determining factors. The Dillon 650 was out of my price range.
jmorris
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I don’t know if this was directed at me but it was made without quote and after one of my posts. I was not trying to be unhelpful or negative, just trying to put some actual numbers to what the OP is looking at. While the pistol ammunition components are relatively inexpensive, rifle components are not. With some of the rounds he listed, he won’t be able to load 200 rounds on a pound of powder. For accuracy you are not going to be using cast bullets or military pulled bullets but premium brands.
Lets say an average cost per completed round is $.30, he is proposing to load 102,000 per year or $30,600 in consumables. If you are going to have $100,000 spent on components in under 3.5 years, the machine cost is negligible unless he gets into the Camdex or Ammoload equipment. I was not trying to be negative, simply realistic.
Yep. If I could afford to shoot that much ammo, I could afford to buy all the presses and use them until I decide which one I liked.
I like my LNL. As I have posted several times I like it for the ergonomics, but if the RCBS was being made years ago when I chose the Projector, I would most likely have bought it. (RCBS over Hornady)
I'll have to admit, Dillon and RCBS will back their presses in 20 years, where I doubt Hornady will. The LNL will most likely last me my lifetime, so I am not worried about it. I may eben buy a different press to try one day. Never can tell, but I am happy with my LNL. It runs smoothly and is easy to use.
2inchpattern
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My proposed quantities may be a bit "aggressive"
Hmm... As I look at the numbers I gave you all and think about the amount of time and money available I realize that I may have been a bit aggressive in my estimates of how much shooting and subsequent reloading I plan to do.
Nonetheless, even if I take it back by a factor, I can easily see myself going through a couple of hundred rounds of pistol an evening for 2 or 3 evenings a week and then spending the better part of a weekend day each week honing my rifle skills to the tune of a couple of hundred rounds a weekend. If I run those numbers in my head I come out with 600-800 rounds (assorted) a week which still seems to make a progressive press cost effective. Am I being unrealistic here or missing something?
I really do appreciate the input you guys have been willing to give me as I sort through this dilemma and am not taking any of this as being in anything but the best of helpful spirit. I hadn't really thought about the idea of going to a number of single stage presses for my rifle cartridges.
Thought it made more sense to pick up a single progressive press and whatever was necessary to handle the caliber changes. Am I just letting the excitement of a new hobby carry be away regarding the progressive press thing? Have I lost my perspective here? Thanks for continuing to get back to me.
Hmm... As I look at the numbers I gave you all and think about the amount of time and money available I realize that I may have been a bit aggressive in my estimates of how much shooting and subsequent reloading I plan to do.
Nonetheless, even if I take it back by a factor, I can easily see myself going through a couple of hundred rounds of pistol an evening for 2 or 3 evenings a week and then spending the better part of a weekend day each week honing my rifle skills to the tune of a couple of hundred rounds a weekend. If I run those numbers in my head I come out with 600-800 rounds (assorted) a week which still seems to make a progressive press cost effective. Am I being unrealistic here or missing something?
I really do appreciate the input you guys have been willing to give me as I sort through this dilemma and am not taking any of this as being in anything but the best of helpful spirit. I hadn't really thought about the idea of going to a number of single stage presses for my rifle cartridges.
Thought it made more sense to pick up a single progressive press and whatever was necessary to handle the caliber changes. Am I just letting the excitement of a new hobby carry be away regarding the progressive press thing? Have I lost my perspective here? Thanks for continuing to get back to me.Funshooter45
Member
That's still a whole lot of ammo there. For those kinds of quantities, maybe you need 2 presses. One, a progressive for the 9mm and 45 ACP and .223. Set it up for one caliber and crank out 5,000 rounds or so one evening if you have enough brass. Then switch over to one of the other hi-use calibers and crank out another few thousand of them and so on. Those 3 calibers don't always need a lot of case prep and you can use powders that drop well from an automated dispenser. But also, get a turret press or single stage press for the remaining rifle calibers. You will have to do a lot of case prep and weigh your powders carefully in order to get any good results for those. Since there are several of them, you don't want to deal with the caliber changeover on a progressive press several times a day. A single stage or turret will make it a lot easier to load up 100 rifle cases and then switch over and do another 100 for a different rifle.
2 different presses might sound like overkill, but you have very different needs there. Get a Dillon 650 or Hornady LnL AP, whichever suits your fancy. A good single stage or a Lee Classic turret will cost almost nothing in comparison and then you won't have those calibers sitting in the way when you need to load up 5000 rounds of 9 mm in a big hurry.
2 different presses might sound like overkill, but you have very different needs there. Get a Dillon 650 or Hornady LnL AP, whichever suits your fancy. A good single stage or a Lee Classic turret will cost almost nothing in comparison and then you won't have those calibers sitting in the way when you need to load up 5000 rounds of 9 mm in a big hurry.
Funshooter45
Member
Oh, and I also read your post to say you will be doing your pistol shooting in the evening? That figures, if you live in WA. It rains a lot there I hear, so I guess you're talking an indoor range? I've never been to one of them, I don't know if we even have one in this state. But I've heard they can be bad for your health in terms of lead exposure, not just from the bullets, but the primer residue in the air. If you're going that route, make sure when buying components for your 9 mm and .45 ACP that you have a source of plated bullets since that's what most indoor ranges require. Also, be sure to get your blood checked once in awhile if you spend that much time there.
Hmm... As I look at the numbers I gave you all and think about the amount of time and money available I realize that I may have been a bit aggressive in my estimates of how much shooting and subsequent reloading I plan to do.
...
I really do appreciate the input you guys have been willing to give me as I sort through this dilemma and am not taking any of this as being in anything but the best of helpful spirit. I hadn't really thought about the idea of going to a number of single stage presses for my rifle cartridges.
For your handgun cartridge and maybe 223 Remington, a progressive is what you probably need. The volume of rounds to be shot would be best served by a progressive.
The remaining rifle rounds, a single stage press is the way to go.
You only need one of each. It is fairly expensive for change parts for the progressive for each different cartridge while for the single stage all you need is a set of dies and a shell holder. The dies you would need anyway if you loaded those cartridges on a progressive and shell holders for single stage presses are pretty cheap.
Powder measures can be used for either.
Scales, measuring tools, tumblers, and so forth are usable between both progressive and single stage presses.
Rifle rounds made on a single stage can be made with more TLC and therefore probably will be mre consistent. Once you find the magic load for each rifle, the accuracy of each riffle will be great.
I doubt that you would shoot more rounds in these rifles that you could not keep up with loading on a single stage press. Besides, at the amount of rounds you originally said you planned to shoot, you would be replacing barrels about every year or so. I know you have scaled back your estimate.
I loaded on only a single stage press for 29 years. Last year, i added a progressive for a variety of reasons. Quantitiy was only one of the reasons. I have moved all my handgun rounds plus 30 carbine to the progressive because when I shoot them, I shoot alot of them. I have the ability to load my 223 Remington XM-193 clone and am considering loading my 30-06 Garand loads on the progressive.
But the rest of my rifle rounds, there are 9 of them, are still loaded on the single stage with no plans to move them to the progressives.
Hope this helps and enjoy your new hobby.
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