PRS/NRL22 rifle

[Walkalong]

@rdnktrkr - I’m gonna offer a few points here in a shotgun blast:

• I’m gonna augment @walkalong’s sentiment that Zero stop is just nice but not necessary, and say instead, getting a scope without zero stop for PRS/NRL competition is a mistake. You WILL make repeated mistakes ……..

I was tougher on the lack of zero stop than that

Yes, it’s too easy to make a mistake with, especially for a newbie, to the point it’s not recommended, but it isn’t critical in the fact it can be done. My point was you want a zero stop, I guess I didn’t spell it out well enough.

If the scope doesn’t have a zero stop, absolutely do set it up so you can’t have a full rev the wrong way, or you'll get lost for sure, especially with turrets which don’t go up and down when turned, ask me how I know.

And yes, I don’t think we’ve touched on parallax and what you need. You need a minimum of 25 yards, I haven’t had to shoot closer than 35 yards yet, but some scopes these days can focus closer than 25 yards.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Be very mindful of discount programs and how you might be able to access them to save money. I picked up my Athlon Helos BTR Gen II for my son’t 22LR because it was on promotion through one of these pro discount programs for only $300

Any suggestions on where to locate these programs?

Thank you and Walkalong for the suggestions some didn't have a zero stop. I was able to narrow my choices down. I never thought about the parallax focus needing to be closer. Is a zero reset the same as a zero stop? (Vortex).
Is the Christmas tree preferred over the graduated reticle? Just wondering how often I would be holding off that much for wind.
I was able to find a 30moa rail but still looking for more, If I can't find one I can get 20moa rings, just waiting to see what the tube diameter will be

 

[rdnktrkr]

Would a 34mm tube be better than a 30mm?

 

[Varminterror]

Is a zero reset the same as a zero stop?

No, toolless zero reset is a different feature than zero stop. I can’t remember which, but it DOES seem like one of the Vortex Strike Eagle, Venom, or Diamondback Tactical doesn’t have a zero stop…

Is the Christmas tree preferred over the graduated reticle?

I like trees on all of my scopes, BUT 22LR can be an instance where a simple graduated reticle can work ok - there’s not much splash for 22LR misses, so I can understand logic where guys might prefer more open glass to be able to see miss-splash better. For example, I bought a Mil-C graduated reticle for my ELR rifle instead of a Mil-XT, so I could see splash easier. With centerfire PRS rifles, no question for me, 110% Christmas tree, and for ME, since my centerfires are trees, I want trees in my rimfires too. In general, a tree gives you more options and more info - so if you get tight on time, you can start holding in the reticle and dialing, and NOT be stuck holding in open glass. So for me, I want trees.

If I can't find one I can get 20moa rings,

Burris XTR Signature rings - pick up a BUNCH of angle if you want, with the versatility that you get multiple inserts to pick 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, or 40moa. They offer these in 30 and 34mm. They may have them in 1”, I just don’t have any - but they do offer their Signature Zee rings in 1”, with the same options for insert angles (but to get 40moa, you have to buy a second set of inserts - but these rings are super affordable - like $50).

Would a 34mm tube be better than a 30mm?

In general, 34mm will have more elevation capacity, but it’s not guaranteed. Otherwise, eh, not really. A 34mm tube is stiffer and sturdier, and there’s some discussion that squeezing the light through a smaller erector tube (50 or 56mm of FOV being squeezed through a smaller tube = more light manipulation, potentially larger circle of confusion in the lens), but eh… all of my centerfire competition scopes are 34 or 35mm, my Rimfire scopes are both 30mm, I don’t overthink it.

Any suggestions on where to locate these programs?

If you’re mil/LEO, first responder, NRA life member, RMEF, firearms instructor, etc (or allegedly, good friends with any of the above), you can get access to these programs.

 

[12Bravo20]

I used MIL-DOT reticles for a long time and switched over to Christmas tree type reticles a few years ago. I am another one that prefers to have my rimfire rifles setup the same as my centerfire rifles.

I stay away from any scope with a center dot in the reticle for precision shooting. I have a few LPVO scopes with center dot reticle sin MIL and MOA. The dots are fine for fast shooting but don't work well for me when it comes to precision.

I also stay away from reticles with a chevron such as scopes from Primary Arms. PA makes a pretty good scope for the price and has excellent customer service if you should need it. But with my eye sight and having astigmatism, chevrons just don't work for me.

@Varminterror brings up good points about the differences between 30mm and 34mm tubes. I'll use the Arken SH4 4-26 and Swampfox Patriot 6-24 scopes as examples just because I have both for testing.
The SH4 is 34mm and the Patriot is 30mm. I don't notice much if any difference between the two. Of course lens quality matters too. A higher quality scope will be brighter than either the SH4 or Patriot. The Patriot has more elevation adjustment than the SH4 even though the tube is 4mm smaller. Both scopes have side focus for parallax. The SH4 will go down to 25 yards and the Patriot will go down to 20 yards.

While both scopes are pretty good at their price points, they will not compete with higher priced scopes with better glass. But both will suit a person's needs for long range rimfire shooting for those on a tighter budget.

 

[Walkalong]

Xmas tree reticles are nice if you hold over vs dial (time constraints), like I did in one stage of that match (.9 & 3.1mils), and you need to hold wind. Sure you can guess, but it’s nice to have it for consistency. That said, it isn’t needed a lot.

Ive shot PRS matches with a non xmas tree reticle with no issues. Mil-SCR reticle IIRC.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I've narrowed down my optic choices, deciding between,
Vortex Venom 5-25x56; Arken EP5 5-25x56, Athlon Argos 6-24x50, Riton X3conquer.
Vortex and Athlon I've heard of, Arken and Riton gets good reviews, Arken comes with a 20moa mount which makes it about the same price as the Vortex and Athlon, Riton is the cheapest.
I've looked at Crimson Trace, Sightmark, Swampfox, Burris, US Optics, SWFA, and some others but they either didn't have zero stop, to far a parallax, or retail was above $1k putting me over the production limit

 

[12Bravo20]

I did a short review of the Arken SH4 and Swampfox Patriot here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/swampfox-vs-arken.911404/

The Arken EP5 is a step above the SH4 with better glass. I can say I have been happy with the Arken SH4. If you go with an Arken, make sure to get the package deal with discount.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Yes I am looking at the package, if I add a mount with the other scopes they are about the same price.
Yes I saw that review when I did a search on here, also read some other reviews on other sites.

 

[Varminterror]

Not for nothin’, but really consider the value of a mount which a vendor includes in a package, for free. Lots of ways to restate that offer, and none are pretty:

• The scope isn’t really worth the price so we added a cheap mount to be enticing

• This mount isn’t worth anything so we tag it onto fairly priced scopes to make them more enticing

• Nobody will buy this mount if it’s not included with a scope, so how else will we market it?

• Look at used market values of optics mounts. Spuhr mounts bring nearly the same used as their new retail price - these package mounts don’t bring value. That tells you a lot about the value you should be mentally assigning these things in front end calculus.

Yes, lots of folks are attracted by turnkey options, and the math you do in comparing a scope+mount package with individually purchased components usually looks favorable towards the package - which is why they offer them.

I recommend evaluating your options 1:1. Set the mount aside in your mind and ignore it. You might not even end up using that mount if you do buy that scope.

Also not for nothin’, but I use Vortex/Seekins PMR rings, Burris XTR Signature and Signature Zee rings, Hawkins mounts, or Spuhr mounts. I have a couple pairs of Nightforce rings also. Those few options give me anything I need from a budget option under $100 to a “no budget” option at ~$400. I’ve tried a LOT of mount options, and have seen a LOT of issues with a LOT of mount options, so now, I trust money towards a very short list.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Without the mount the Arken is $30 more than the Vortex Venom, ($530 to $500) looking around at 34mm 20 or 30moa mounts the Vortex becomes 600+ and the Arken "kit" is $600, If I skip the "kit", Is the Arken better than the Vortex Venom?

Optics Planet has a 10% off sale so difference is now $80.

 

[rdnktrkr]

The 20moa base I found for a Savage Mark II is a EGW, still looking at rings or mount, Midway has them and extra mags

 

[rdnktrkr]

I found the rings referenced earlier, Burris Optics XTR Signature Scope Rings 34mm 1.5”, Is that what I should need?

 

[Walkalong]

The 20moa base I found for a Savage Mark II is a EGW, still looking at rings or mount, Midway has them and extra mags

That’s enough for NRL-22 (100 yards and in), but if you stretch it out, you might run out of elevation. Maybe @Varminterror can do the math, looks like the farthest WA Georgia goes out is 250ish.

 

[Varminterror]

The 20moa base I found for a Savage Mark II is a EGW, still looking at rings or mount, Midway has them and extra mags

I use EGW mounts on a lot of stuff. Good to go. All 3 of my LR 10/22’s use EGW 20moa pic rails.

You can get that Venom for cheaper if you find a program access point, I’m seeing $419.

 

[Varminterror]

I found the rings referenced earlier, Burris Optics XTR Signature Scope Rings 34mm 1.5”, Is that what I should need?

1.5” is really tall. Mine are all 1” or 1.1” if I remember right. Lemme look and I’ll check back in on that in an hour when I get back to the house.

 

[Walkalong]

Mine are mostly 1.125 or 1.25, although one is about 1.1

1.5” is used a lot on ARs.

 

[Varminterror]

250yrds with standard velocity ammo is ~37moa below a 50yrd zero, add ~12moa for the absolute gravitational drop and optic height built into a 50yrd zero and we need ~50MOA of available “up,” which means we’d want ~110moa to be safe in the optic if we use a flat rail. If we add a 20moa rail, then we’d likely be able to use an 60moa optic (50yrd zero with 20moa rail is “down 8” from optical center, and we need 37moa up from there, 37-8=29 left below optical center, and 29*2 = 58, call it 60moa).

 

[Varminterror]

1.0” XTR rings on my Savage with 50mm Nightforce. I use 1.1” on both of my centerfire rifles. 1.0” won’t fit 56mm scopes with caps.

 

[rdnktrkr]

1.0” XTR rings on my Savage with 50mm Nightforce. I use 1.1” on both of my centerfire rifles. 1.0” won’t fit 56mm scopes with caps.

So I need to look for a 1.1 or 1.25 20moa mount/rings? I'm between the Vortex Venom or the Arken EP5 scope so far, both are 34mm with a 56 bell, the Arken has a little more movement than the Vortex according to the reviews. I'm going to use a 20moa rail and at least a 20moa mount/rings, I would like 30 but am finding 20 more common.

If I had seen the Arken before ordering the Savage I could have ordered the RPR and been able to stay in production class, (I had looked at last years $1200 cap). I will talk to them when my Savage comes in and might go that route. My friend wants me to check on a savage for him but I think he wants the FV-SR. I bet for the price they are giving me I can recoup all my money i8f not I can always use another gun

 

[Varminterror]

The RPRR will need a 1.5” ring set.

 

[Varminterror]

Adding: I’m not terribly certain I’d spend extra money to get an RPRR over a Savage. Performance of either in these games is very similar - maybe I can appreciate that adding weight to balance an RPRR with bolt-on solutions is easier than doing so for the Savage, but the RPRR isn’t really a standout in its class. CZ 455/452/457 definitely are.

I also wouldn’t fret over keeping yourself in production/base class. Winning base/production is kinda just acknowledging you shouldn’t use training wheels any more and can ride a big kid bike - EXCEPT at many clubs around the country, you’ll have some near-top level guy standing in your way trying to game the system by stacking 100pt matches in production/base class. I expect since you were close enough to attend the same match as Walkalong, you’re in that kind of country, and won’t be able to hide from extremely skilled guys which game the class system like some other folks can in certain parts of the country. Just measure yourself against your score from last match, build your skills, and have fun, and don’t let yourself get axle wrapped about production/base class limitations.

 

[Hookeye]

Guys around here run Voodoo, Anschutz or CZ. Some KIDD 1022 builds as well.

I'm not competitive, may not even shoot a match. But wanted something to play with.
Ugly, but so far shoots OK..........Savage MKII TR.
Slapped a Leupold Freedom 6-18X on it, in EGW rings and base.

Watched some good shooters w chassis systems last week. Neat stuff.

Try to get out and play w some SK Standard Plus, and of course, some CCI segmented Quiet.
Got some woodchucks that need to have their eyes dotted.

 

[Hookeye]

As for competition, I only compete against myself.
Work on improving my scores.
Don't care what others shoot.

Proly only good thing about being older, learning to do that.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Struggling to locate the Burris rings in 1.25", found 1" & 1.5"