PTR-91 Questions

[Panzerschwein]

Hello everyone!

I just got a new PTR-91 GI model without the top rail off Bud's Gun Shop. It's on it's way to my FFL dealer, and I have a couple upgrades for it. This is the version I bought:

PTR INC PTR91 GI .308 18" Special Edition w/Green Furniture $799.00 SHIPS FREE

I've wanted a "G3" style rifle for years now, and finally broke down and got one! But, I want to change a few things with it. First, I want one of the wide forearms instead of the slim forearms that come on the GI model. I've found two sources for these, one is significantly cheaper and I don't think it's an actual HK made handguard. It sells for $75:

HK91-G3 GREEN WIDE HANDGUARD

I like the price tag, but how does it compare to a real HK made forearm? Will it match the color of my buttstock? I know the G3s were made in (at least) two shades of green, one "OD" green and the other a brighter "jungle" green. I really can't know for sure what color my PTR-91 will be until I get it, but it looks like mine comes with the OD green furniture.

The other option is to buy a real HK made wide forearm:

HK German Date Coded Green Wide Forearm - HK91 Parts, HK-91 Parts, HK G3 Parts

I'm sure it's nice but it is double the price of the RTG handguard. Is it worth it over the RTG mentioned above? If it doesn't match by rifles buttstock, I could always get a surplus green buttstock which go for cheap.

So, of these two wide handguards, which one should I get? I'd prefer the less expensive one but ONLY if it looks and feels just like the original, or very close to it.

Okay, I'd also like to swap out the Navy style black trigger housing/group for a surplus version with a green pistol grip. I've seen both entire trigger groups that come with a trigger pack, as well as just the trigger housing for sale. Would I be able to buy JUST the trigger housing, then put my Navy trigger pack into the new housing, or will the PTR Navy trigger pack not fit in a standard surplus stripped housing?

Here is the stripped empty trigger housing for sale:

HK G3 Steel Lower Receiver - Stripped - S-E-F Lower with Olive Drab Pistol Grip - Keepshooting®

Here is the entire group- do I need to buy this or will my PTR trigger pack fit into the above housing?

G3 Steel Trigger Group ? Original Part Made by HK for the G3 - Keepshooting®

Okay... last but not least, I'm going to have a paddle magazine release proffesionally installed. It is worth it to me to have the original look and feel of a real G3 rifle. I've seen one gunsmith called Bill Springfield who does this for about $150 not counting parts, so after parts and FFL shipping (I assume I need that) it would be right at $200. Is Bill Springfield a reputable gunsmith? Are there any other gunsmiths who do a good job for less?

Sorry for all the questions guys! I can't wait to get my new rifle and have it configured just how I want. I've waited for this moment for years, and now it's finally time to have my own personal G3! (or at least as close as I'll ever get)!

Thanks for the help, I look forward to your responses!

 

[Jackal]

I'd skip the handguard for now. I thought I wanted the fat forend, until I actually used my PTR. I rather like the slim handguard.

Your trigger pack will drop in, but you will need a steel lower safety selector. The polymer lowers selector wont fit.

Bill Springfield does pretty good work, though his turn around time can be rough. He had a couple trigger groups of mine for well over a month.

 

[Panzerschwein]

No, I've handled an HK-91 with the wide handguard and a PTR-91 with the slim and I much prefer the wide in looks and feel. Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

[stubbicatt]

Bill Springfield has done work on all my HK clones. I have been satisfied with his work each time. While it's there, perhaps consider a trigger job as well, as it really makes a difference.

I too prefer the wide forearm, as it mounts the light bipod, which is a useful accessory.

 

[briansmithwins]

I have a wide forearm from RTG. I think it's Pakistani, but it fit normally and the color is OD that matches the OD HK parts (as well as HK's OD parts match each other).

I tried the slim handguard but didn't like how narrow it was or how exposed to heat my hand was with the slim guard. The trunnion gets a might bit warm after a couple mags.

BSW

 

[Panzerschwein]

Yes! I just got a notification from Bud's Gun Shop... my PTR-91 gets here on Monday!!!

 

[Numeric]

Your 91 GI's trigger pack will probably be all reconditioned surplus parts (at least mine is, according to PTR), so it should drop in just fine. However, neither of those steel lowers will mount on your rifle without modification. These both require the push-pin through the rear of the magazine well to hold the front of the lower on. Semi-auto HK91 clones like the PTR91 have a metal shelf that the front of the lower rests on, and the only pins in it are in the rear. You would need a properly modified lower such as this one or this one.

I suggest that you take the rifle out and actually shoot it to ensure it's functioning properly before you begin changing parts on it, just in case it has to go back to the factory.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Yes! That's what I'm going to do. I've got 120 rounds of ZQ brass cased 147 grain 7.62x51mm ready to rock and roll before I start messing with the gun. Would be pretty lame to have the gun all put together to find out it doesn't work!!

 

[AlexanderA]

The wide forearms from RTG are good to go. That's where I got mine, and the fit and color match with the green buttstock are perfect. You need that if you're going to use the issue bipod.

I agree that the plastic "Navy" style trigger frame needs to be replaced. But the one from Keepshooting is not what you want. The front end needs to be modified ("clipped") in order to be legal for a semiautomatic. (The additional "pinning" -- a fake front push pin-- is just cosmetic.) I got the properly modified metal trigger frame from HK Parts.net, but I'm not sure if they still have them in stock. It was about $80 postpaid. You need a short-stem selector lever to work with the metal trigger frame.

Your original PTR internal trigger pack will work fine with the metal trigger housing, BUT you need to file off the four small tabs (projections) on the bottom of the receiver stamping to get the trigger pack to fit flush. Those projections are needed to properly space the trigger pack in the plastic housing. You'll see what I mean when you have the parts in front of you.

Another worthwhile addition, IMO, is the bayonet adapter that replaces the front end cap on the cocking tube. G3 bayonets are unique in that they mount on top of the barrel. There are German, Norwegian, and Pakistani bayonets and they are all different.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the "paddle" magazine release. It has to be done just right in order to keep the rifle legal. All it does is activate the "real" magazine release which is already there.

 

[dvdcrr]

Your 147 gr. ZQ ammo might not work too well with the rifle until you have broken it in with about 300 rounds of quality brass surplus, cleaning as per the manual . You need a 45 caliber brush.

 

[Numeric]

Yes! That's what I'm going to do. I've got 120 rounds of ZQ brass cased 147 grain 7.62x51mm ready to rock and roll before I start messing with the gun.

Good deal; I've shot 140 rounds of ZQI/MKE M80 in mine and I think it likes it; my best group (with irons) was 2.75" with a flier, or 1.625" without. Every time I go to Wal-Mart I pick up a few more boxes on clearance. It also likes Silver Bear 145gr FMJ .308.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Your 147 gr. ZQ ammo might not work too well with the rifle until you have broken it in with about 300 rounds of quality brass surplus, cleaning as per the manual . You need a 45 caliber brush.

What is "quality brass surplus" and where do I find it?

The ZQ ammo is brass cased and is quality from what I've read.

 

[Grunt]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the "paddle" magazine release. It has to be done just right in order to keep the rifle legal. All it does is activate the "real" magazine release which is already there.

NO!!! I know they only activate the existing magazine release but the existing M-16 style magazine release is so poorly located that it's all but worthless. The original paddle magazine release along with the extended selector lever from RTG are "must have" mods IMHO. It is true though that it's a delicate modification to perform and one screw up will leave you with an illegal rifle but I sent mine off to Bill Springfield and left the job to the professional. He did a great job on it and it's a worthwile modification.

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Oh, if you're going with the wide handguards (what I prefer too BTW), the cocking handle isn't as easy to reach as it is with the slim handguards. My suggestion would be to add an HK21 cocking handle. Makes manipulating the cocking handle a bit easier and faster.



Another good addition if you plan on reloading is an ejection port buffer. They are a bit rough on brass and the addition of a buffer reduces the number of brass that are completely mangled.



I agree that the bayonet adaptor is a good addition. If it pisses off a gun grabber because now it's even more "evil", it's money well spent!





Not really a bad rifle.

 

[jobu07]

Another thumbs up for Bill Springfield. If you want a trigger pack worked on or a paddle mag release installed on a HK style rifle, there's no one else you should be talking to.

 

[AlexanderA]

For what it's worth, here's my personal ranking of the "big 3" (based on worldwide usage) .308 "battle rifle" clones available in the U.S. This is assuming that price is no object. I own all of them.

1. FAL, in its STG58 guise from DSA.
2. M1A. The earlier the better.
3. G3/HK/PTR 91.

When price is the controlling factor, the order would be reversed.

I know that there are lots of G3/PTR 91 fans out there, but my personal impression is that it's a brutish design compared to the elegance of the FAL. Mainly because of the stamped vs. machined construction, and the inherently violent nature of the action (roller locking).

If intending to mount a scope, the M1A (coupled with a Brookfield or Sadlak scope mount) would be the first choice. YMMV

 

[Panzerschwein]

Price is a concern, but I've also loved the G3 platform since I was but a wee boy. I don't care that it beats up brass, I don't reload and will be shooting steel cased ammo and cheap brass like ZQ in the gun. From my research, it actually ends up being cheaper than reloading brass cases, especially for me since I have 0 reloading equipment but even if I did, steel cased ammo still costs less than reloaded brass case stuff.

I bought this gun as a battle rifle. Match accuracy is not my main concern, I bought it for the power and reliability of the G3, and plan to keep the iron sights and not "scope" the gun. No, this will be a run-and-gun down in the mud weapon. No bench rests for this beast! I wanted something like an AK-47 but in a larger, more capable cartridge and also like I said have been very attracted to the Heckler and Koch G3 design since a few iotas after birth LOL!

Once I get the gun set up how I want (wide handguard, milsurp steel lower w/ green pistol grip, paddle release install) I'll leave it alone and focus on just shooting the snot out of it!!

PS: I've been trying to get ahold of Bill Springfield, he hasn't responded to my email I sent Monday night and it's gone to voicemail the two times I called him, once on Wednesday and once today. I left a message on Wednesday. Hopefully he responds soon.

 

[stubbicatt]

For what it's worth, here's my personal ranking of the "big 3" (based on worldwide usage) .308 "battle rifle" clones available in the U.S. This is assuming that price is no object. I own all of them.

1. FAL, in its STG58 guise from DSA.
2. M1A. The earlier the better.
3. G3/HK/PTR 91.

When price is the controlling factor, the order would be reversed.

I know that there are lots of G3/PTR 91 fans out there, but my personal impression is that it's a brutish design compared to the elegance of the FAL. Mainly because of the stamped vs. machined construction, and the inherently violent nature of the action (roller locking).

If intending to mount a scope, the M1A (coupled with a Brookfield or Sadlak scope mount) would be the first choice. YMMV

To each his own. I've owned a couple FAL rifles, the first being a Pre Dealer Sample G1, which never was as accurate as the PTR I own now, and had its own foibles. I am happy there are many different models to choose between.Between the three of them, in my experience, the G3 clone is the easiest to mount optics on, which the OP has indicated he will not be doing anyways. --I love that Zeiss Orion night vision scope. Makes a really handy accessory, as does the 22 sub caliber kit.

OP, remember to rock your magazines in like you would with the FAL or M14, as the front of the magazine engages a tongue or tenon on the bottom of the trunnion. If you jam it in a la AR15 you will ruin your magazine and experience misfeeds quite frequently. This rocking motion is facilitated by the use of the paddle magazine release, at least when one extracts the magazine from the rifle.

I think you will be very happy with your new rifle.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks! I've been trying to contract gunsmith Bill Springfield to have a paddle magazine release installed. I've also been researching how to swap my navy style cheap-looking lower for a metal German milsurp lower with green pistol grip.

I'll be sticking to irons for now, but maybe somewhere down the road I'll have to get a claw mount to mount a red dot or low magnification optic.

 

[jobu07]

Changing out the lowers is a quick process. Shouldn't take more than five minutes. You'll be happy once you've got the paddle release put back on like the rifle was designed. The push button non-sense is garbage... Thanks ATF.

There's also a lot of debate about firing steel cased ammo in the fluted chambers of these rifles. I've done it occasionally and not experienced ill effects, however, it might not work well in yours.

I'm curious, after your accessories and custom work, what your total dollar amount into the rifle, if you don't mind sharing?

 

[ahandgunner2]

You guys talk of 'clipped and pinned' lowers. Would it be safe to say this is a clipped but not pinned SEF that someone put on this SAR8? I have a SAR3 and would like to get an SEF as well but never understood what I needed. Not trying to hijack the thread but figured it was related. Thanks!
Guess I can always wait till HKparts has them in stock again and pay $100

 

[Panzerschwein]

I really don't know man, sorry!

I thought the PTRs were good to go with steel cased ammo? That's one of the reasons why I bought it... if it doesn't take steel cased, I will have to sell it. I don't reload, can't reload, won't reload... so that leaves me with steel cased ammo. If it won't feed in my new PTR, I won't keep the gun. Period dot.

 

[briansmithwins]

I had the opposite problem with my PTR-32: it ran great on steel case ammo but wouldn't cycle the Yugo M67 that I have for matches (as it's cheap and non-magnetic). I was getting severe short stroking with the M67.

Fortunately, you can change the timing of the delay easily with the HK system. If you use a locking peice (the angled wedge that goes inside the bolt) you can change how long the delay is to opening.

I'd be surprised if the standard G3 type parts are incompatible (or can't be tuned to be compatible) with steel case ammo, given the roller delayed blowback's developmental history.

BSW

 

[Jackal]

My PTR munches steel like popcorn.

 

[ttarp]

Guys the delayed roller system was built around steel cased ammo, you're more likely(but not likely) to have issues with brass ammo than steel.

ahand, you're right thats a clipped sef lower, they simply cut the ears off of the lower rather than trimming the ID to fit over the shelf. Pinned simply refers to cutting a pushpin in two and glueing it on either side of the lower.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Guys the delayed roller system was built around steel cased ammo, you're more likely(but not likely) to have issues with brass ammo than steel.

ahand, you're right thats a clipped sef lower, they simply cut the ears off of the lower rather than trimming the ID to fit over the shelf. Pinned simply refers to cutting a pushpin in two and glueing it on either side of the lower.

What's the point of the "pinning" then? Just aesthetics?

Doesn't the real G3 come with both a paddle magazine release AND the push button? If so, why does the real one have both?