public range stupidity

[Pacsd]

I can only hope this might be read by those idiots I saw at a public range in the grasslands. There are 3 established distances, 100-200-300 yards with an excellent backdrop. It's 1st come 1st served. So if you want to shoot at 200 but someone is on the 100 you wait til they are done. And if someone is on the 200 or 300 and you want to shoot 100, you wait. Pretty simple. However, I was out there one day and here are 5-6 guys set up on the 300 with targets set between the 300 & 200, targets at the 200, 100 & against the backdrop. Not to mention 8-10- 12 year old kids milling around. Several times after shots you could hear them zingin off the ground (as the lay of the land is slightly downward) and going "who knows where". I knew we were in for a long wait and that was OK. After awhile one of the guys who were obviously a "flap" from a near by US airbase comes over and asks me if I wanted to shoot along with them and we would be welcome to set up anywhere between the 300 and the backdrop. I told him no, thanks, I'll wait til I can set up at the backdrop the way it is suppose to be and I don't want my rounds "rich-o-in" all over the place like the ones I've heard from your group and asked him what his base safety officer would have to say about violating some of the 10 rules of gun safety. He just kinda smirked and went back to his buddies. I knew he was telling his buds so I took out a note pad and wrote down a couple of thier license numbers. One guy was watching me do this. Meanwhile, two other guys pulled up, sat around for a few minutes then came over by me and in a voice loud enough asked me "what the heck is goin on here"? I just said, "pretty stupid, huh"? It didn't take much longer that they packed up and left. I did call the base safety office and related this to one of the officers. He assured me there would be action taken once he ID-ed them thru the plate numbers. Haven't seen them back since. Just how dumb can some people be?

 

[kingpin008]

Unsafe or not, sounds like you handled it pretty poorly.

Ever hear the saying "you get more flies with honey than you do vinegar"? In this case, you were vinegar. They offered to let you start shooting, and even though it wasn't a safe way to go about it, you could have just said "no thanks" and politely pointed out that they were causing an unsafe situation. Instead, you decided to go on the offensive, and basically start insulting them right off the bat.

Also, you might want to curb your use of "idiots" and the like from now on - we don't do insults here. Attack the problem, not the person.

 

[Claude Clay]

I can only hope this might be read by those idiots I saw at a public range in the grasslands.

i must be reading it wrong--you are hopeful that 'those idiots' are members of our forum.

leaving that idea alone, i am not surprised by the errors in safety and/or even the inability to read posted range rules anywhere. public or private.
sometimes knowing when to just walk away to shoot again another day is playing a bad hand the best you can.

 

[inclinebench]

I am confused...were these guys shooting on the base? If so, how come no range officer? If it was not on the base, can the safety officer you called really do anything? Is it something he should be bothered with? Might be a jurisdictional issue so to speak.

 

[Walkalong]

"Public" & "stupidity" are redundant.

 

[medalguy]

Might have been better to go up to the group and let them know there are some established safety regulations at that range and they aren't keeping within those rules and maybe ask if they would like you to help them set up in a safe manner. If not, I agree, I'd leave them to their own means.

 

[villageidiot357]

10 rules of gun safety? I always thought two about covered it.

 

[Robert]

I too am confused. They had targets set up at 200 on the 300 range? So? The range I shoot has target stands every 50 or 100 yards from 25 out to whatever the end of the range is. 425y on the long range. I use close in targets on the long range all the time to check zero at different ranges without having to pull everything and move.

They had some ricochets? Ok. And? This happens all the time in shooting. Wait till you are down range checking targets at a match and a 12ga slug goes zipping over head from the range next door. Sounds like an angry humming bird.

They brought the kids and that is an issue? Maybe the kids had been shooting before you arrived. Where they running around being dangerous? Or where they just there? Milling around does not seem to impose a threat to me.

Where there blatant violations of the 4 rules of safe firearm handling? If so I could see getting upset, but things could have been handled better on all sides.

When approached you could have politely pointed out their safety issues and explained that the range tends to operate in a certain manner.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

What ? Is the Airbase right behind the range stop ? I'm not sure what your grievance is here. Probably no harm unless a major housing edition is in the immediate range behind the stop. I shoot at 300+ yd cattle rangeland in OKLAHOMA !!!! Nothing but FLAT as far as the eye can see. There is a remote possibility I may hit a Bovine ruminant but the chances are very low. (and the landowner knows where to send the bill ) The are no human dwellings, shopping malls, interstate highways etc. behind the intended target area for at least ten miles.

A richochet, AFTER hitting dirt, how far are we talking here ??????

I am going with Gus' final statement about a polite intervention or packing up and finding a new place more suitable to my level of safety requirements.

 

[pinstripe]

You lost me doc. I can't understand your post.

 

[Toforo]

You could always join a private range and then start a forum thread entitled.....

"private range stupidity"

 

[Justin]

You could always join a private range and then start a forum thread entitled.....

"private range stupidity"

In my experience, private ranges tend to have a much lower idiot quotient than public ones.

 

[EddieNFL]

In my experience, private ranges tend to have a much lower idiot quotient than public ones.

Indeed.

 

[oneounceload]

In my experience, private ranges tend to have a much lower idiot quotient than public ones.

Only when they have responsible folks marshalling the activities

 

[Toforo]

In my experience, private ranges tend to have a much lower idiot quotient than public ones

YUP - but it would still lead to a thread topic, lol

 

[jbr]

i can't exactly picture the situation. but a little free advice - worth at least what you're paying for it. When a "group" of guys are screwing up it is not always wise to belittle one of them. Any man deserves the respect of being spoken to like a man. "Thanks for the offer but you guys are scaring me a little bit- the way you are setup may leave you open to catch a ricochet etc... The range ask that you shoot only from "insert range rule here" You guys might want to do that so you don't "whatever whatever" I'm guessing that they were pretty good guys or they would have given you a bunch of mouth after you rubbed their noses in whatever it was. Give a man a chance to save face or think about what he's doing until he proves he doesn't deserve that chance. Just common courtesy. IT could always turn out that the guy is a butt head and kicks yours. To quote a famous civil rights leader of our times "Why can't we all just get along." (Rodney King (look it up)for those of you who are young/lucky enough not to know)
(clack)
Off the soap box now.

 

[lizziedog1]

These threads make me happy that I now live here.

 

[EddieNFL]

I did call the base safety office and related this to one of the officers. He assured me there would be action taken once he ID-ed them thru the plate numbers.

Nothing happened. A "safety officer" has no authority downtown. He could pass the info along to the individual's commander, but unless he admits to wrong doing, it's a dead end.

 

[altitude_19]

I did call the base safety office and related this to one of the officers. He assured me there would be action taken once he ID-ed them thru the plate numbers.

Your complaint has merit, but your technique requires tweaking. I can already tell you're not active duty, so at best you're (I doubt it) retired military, and even if you are retired mil, that doesn't put you very far ahead of pure blooded civilians. Nothing wrong with civilians, but simply put, it is not their place to call the base and try to put the screws to a GI just because it's easy. If you're looking for a simple rule: GI's should not try to flex their status off-base in their favor, and you should not try to leverage it against them. Of course the safety office assured you action would be taken, but I suspect that is a side-effect of our "something must be done" culture. It doesn't really matter if you're blowing smoke up his afterburner...he'll always assure you action will be taken because it's how we're conditioned and he doesn't want to appear dismissive. We have enough crap to deal with as military already...don't try to make life any harder for me.

 

[orionengnr]

I don't want my rounds "rich-o-in" all over the place

Did you mean ricocheting? If you speak English, you will be more understandable.

like the ones I've heard from your group and asked him what his base safety officer would have to say about violating some of the 10 rules of gun safety.

I am only aware of Four Rules. A search will turn them up.

Before you accuse someone else of stupidity, you should look in a mirror and critically apprise your own actions...

 

[Vyacheslav]

took down there license plate numbers? that's pretty creepy, i'd like to know what you planned to do with them.

 

[liammtierney]

It sounds like you believe you are a little more important than you really are, sir.

By the way, whats a "flap"?

 

[Ignition Override]

liammtierney:
"Flap": the only version I've heard means "funny little airplane pilot".

Some (not all) military pilots use the word "flap" to look down on civilian pilots who starved a bit as they scraped money together for their very expensive civilian flight training. And no, my initial training was Not civilian.

Huge numbers of these guys/gals then had no choice but to work for peanuts as instructors in order to acquire 'pilot in command' cross-country and even more valuable PIC or SIC multi-engine experience in light twins.

Many Air Force bases had flying clubs, at least many years ago, where active or reserve staff could rent a single engine (recip.) plane by the hour for a bit less money than what is charged by FBOs at civilian airports.
A roommate in '83 was still a Staff or Master Sgt. (Loadmaster) in the Texas ANG, NAS Dallas, and might have started with such a club.

 

[Mags]

Wow, the OP does not look good.

First off there are 4 rules of gun safety, the AF only teaches 3. Secondly the base safety office does not care what happens off base and has no authority off base. I am certain the guy you called just said what he said to pacify you.

You know how I know this. Because I an active duty "flap" as you put it, for 10+ years. Maybe you should not be so quick to judge. Maybe you could have taught these guys something. Hell in my 10+ years of service I only went through CATM with the M16 3 times. I learned most of my shooting from fellow civilian range goers who took the time to teach me the error of my ways.

(I'm not a pilot, I just don't care for civilians using what are normally terms of endearment between servicemembers in a derogatory manner)

 

[makarovnik]

I guess you had to be there.