Pulled over Ticket then Questioned?????

[MedGrl]

I checked Packing.org and according to them you are required to carry your permit but not requiered to notify the officer that you are carrying. I have no idea what was with all the lights and the belated interrogation. I'll see if my uncle who is a LEO has any ideas.

 

[Igloodude]

When you encounter an LEO who is a stranger, you should always assume they're a JBT. With this in mind, you should answer each question with another question: "Am I free to go?"

I suspect that treating them like JBTs encourages them to act like JBTs towards you.

While I would not let them search my car without probable cause, I'm not going to regard chatting with the LEO as any "Your papers please!!" conversation (knowing full well that the conversation is a bit of an investigation into my sobriety if nothing else).

 

[MrTwigg]

+1 Tomekeuro85 !

can see why some of you don't like police. You give them attitude when they ask you something, and then they give you a hard time so you just dislike them more. Next time you get stopped you give more attitude and get even more trouble. If you had cooperated in the first place, shown respect and gave no attitude, it is far more likely you would have just gotten off with a warning. (I'm not saying this to the thread starter just people in general). Secondly, why do you even get pulled over? Speed limits and traffic laws exist for a reason.

A motor vehicle stop is arguably the single most dangerous thing any LEO does during his shift. If/When I am stopped the one thing I want to do is to coperate and make that P.O. at ease.

I've been driving for 32 years and I've learned the hard way what NOT to say and do when stopped.

Get a radar detector and or a CB radio if you don't have one and use them.
If you find yourself speeding all the time, slow down & learn to leave a bit earlier.

It's been said in other threads but I'll say it here;
When stopped by LEO,

1. Pull over
2. Turn on interior light
3. Put wallet or ID on top of dash
4. Roll down window
5. Keep hands on steering wheel
6. Be respectful even if LEO is not

Know the laws in the area you are driving through. Lighten up and have a better tommorrow.

 

[Sistema1927]

Richard.Howe said what I was thinking:

If I was a LEO on a dark night, and someone I had just pulled over failed to tell me that he was a CHL holder and was carrying -- and in addition had failed to turn on his dome light and keep his hands on the wheel -- my blood would run a little cold, too...


Even if your state doesn't have a requirement to notify, it makes sense to me to hand over your CCW, DL, registration and proof of insurance, preferably with the CCW on top.

 

[V4Vendetta]

My .02

I didn't read all the posts but here's what I'd say.

"Why officer, the same reason you carry a firearm. There are some folks out there that would just as soon kill you as look at you. You carry a firearm to make sure you make it home every night, so do I."

"I'm carrying a [fill in blank].

Be polite. Being a jerk doesn't give the LEO a good impression on the rest of CCW's.

 

[TexasRifleman]

While the lights were certainly for his safety, the questioning might just be plain old polite conversation.

I was stopped by Texas' finest (Highway Patrol) and given a warning for speeding, then spent a nice 15 minutes talking about Sigs and various holsters available. Turns out the Trooper had a side business laying fiber optic cables and he and I bid on a job together a few months after that.

Cops are people too, sometimes......

 

[Optical Serenity]

Seems to me like not only was he polite but he also lowered your ticket to below what you actually deserved. You should have thanked him.

As for the lights, thats standard, except where he messed up was he should have had all them on from the second he stopped you. My lights all come on like the Braves stadium before your car is stopped. Its a very useful tool to prevent people from jumping out and seeing where I actually am. Not to mention it helps light up your car so others don't hit you. Overall the useful and correct thing to do.

Before I was an LEO I'd always hand over my driver's license and my GA Firearm's Permit and say "I have a weapon on me." then they'd EVERYTIME hand back the GFL and say "ok, I only need your driver's license, but thank you."

And now, most cops I know actually are more likely to NOT ticket someone with a firearms permit. Its the opposite of how you guys think most of the time.

And if you are asked about it, its 99.9% of the time because most cops love guns and are just interested in what you have.

 

[another okie]

"Tell the LEO you are packing immediatly and things will go alot smoother."

Well, probably. Here in Oklahoma we're required to tell, so it's not a choice I have to make, but there have been plenty of posts on this board of people who informed the officer and were then ordered against the car while the officer took their gun away from them, unloaded it, and ran a check to see if it was stolen while the driver waited in the back of the patrol car.

Police officers are people, and they have varying levels of knowledge and confidence and expertise and energy just like anyone else. Some don't think anyone but them should have guns, and they can be hostile. Some are tired and worn out and cynical from being lied to all the time. Some just have to be the boss, and if you don't acknowledge that they are the boss they will raise the level. Some are relieved to find you are a law-abiding citizen and will cut you some slack.

There's no response that will make everything go smoothly all the time, because every officer and every driver are different.

 

[akodo]

"Why are you Carrying?" Because if I keep my gun at home, it doesn't do me any good.

 

[BigRobT]

One of the things I encountered quite often when I did the LEO gig was the negative attitudes. Quite frankly, your attitude often influences MY attitude. It's really THAT simple. You want to be a butthead. I can be one, too. You want to be a nice guy, I'll be the nice guy, too. Most of the tickets that I actually wrote were to those that got rude, discourteous or thought they were better than me. The vast majority got a verbal reprimand and it was left at that.

 

[TallPine]

First of all ... you folks who are posting about what your own states laws are regarding CCW and LEO contact are not adding anything useful to the discussion. Things are different up here - get used to it As has already been pointed out, anyone who can otherwise legally possess a gun may carry a gun in a car in MT without a permit - and to my knowledge most everyone does so any LEO should already be assuming that for every traffic stop

Secondly, it is hard to discern exactly what the officer's attitude was in the original post, but it doesn't sound at all like the MT LEOs that I know. If this really was a stop by MHP, then I would contact the nearest MHP office about the officer's behavior (the time to get all worried about an armed citizen is when the stop is first made, not after you find out he has been through all the hoops for CCW permit). If it is a local city agency then it might not do any good

This officer sounds to me like a new-hire from out of state ...

 

[AirForceShooter]

I'd call the guys boss and kind of play dumb.
"Hey, I got stopped by one of your guys, really nice guy, but he was grilling me about my CCW. Is that usual?"
Best that happened to me was I got stopped by a Deputy here and got chewed out for NOT carrying. Her rationale was; what if she was in trouble and I came along and couldn't help. I was an inconsiderate SOB. I promised to carry in the future and she let me off with a warning. Coming from NYC it was sort of crazy to me.

AFS

 

[Shootcraps]

One of the things I encountered quite often when I did the LEO gig was the negative attitudes. Quite frankly, your attitude often influences MY attitude. It's really THAT simple.

That works both ways. And it sounds like the trooper played the Attitude Card first.

 

[Hook686]

If carrying outside scope of CCW

Yesterday, 08:00 PM #16
George S.

While MT laws may require you to present your CCW to an LEO if you are stopped for whatever reason and are carrying (and checking www.packing.org is a good way to find out), I guess I would be upset if I was asked why I had a permit or why I was carrying. Having a valid permit makes me "legal" in the eyes of the state and that is all the LEO should have been concerned with at that point.

Suppose your reason given in obtaining the CCW was , "Because I carry diamonds in the course of my business. I own a shop in Billings."

Here you are either 1) carrying diamonds, or 2) carrying a gun outside the stated purpose for your being issued a CCW.

My question concerns the latter, and maybe why the LEO asked the question. If a CCW holder was carrying concealed a listed qualified handgun, under other circumstances, than for which the CCW was issued, is that a violation of 1) law, 2) the CCW terms; and, is the holder subject to legal action, or loss of permit ?

The LEO must have had a reason for asking the question, and for taking so long in getting back to the driver ... he had lots of time to glean the details of the driver's CCW, and a background on the driver. I never heard of such a delay in ticketing ... but then I've only received one speeding ticket and it was over quickly, though it cost a whole lot more than twenty bucks !

 

[Bob R]

but there have been plenty of posts on this board of people who informed the officer and were then ordered against the car while the officer took their gun away from them, unloaded it, and ran a check to see if it was stolen while the driver waited in the back of the patrol car.

I have been on this board for awhile, and I cannot remember off the top of my head one of these posts. There have probably been some, but I can't remember seeing them.

Has anyone else seen plenty of these posts? And, just how many is plenty?

bob

 

[WayneConrad]

I think it's an education issue.

CCW holders are, as a group, much safer to interact with than is the average Joe. Safer for a bank teller, for a police officer, for anyone. Police officers that know that (and many do), relax just a little, I think, when they found out someone has a CCW. Police officers that don't know that may get more uptight, especially if they weren't informed up front.

If an officer knows this fact still gets uptight, well, perhaps over time he will learn just how boring CCW holders are. We just don't go around shooting cops, and the presence of a sidearm on our person doesn't change that.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Two Ways to Handle It

There are two ways to respond.

One, be a jerk about it and antagonize the officer so that his fear and worry about civilian CCW will later seems "justified" to him and others who feel like him.

Two, defuse his worry. Answer politely and invite him to your next IDPA match as your guest. Lighten up fer crissake and he probably will too.

After all, we're all Good Guys, remember?

 

[Raph84]

(BigRobT) Quite frankly, your attitude often influences MY attitude. It's really THAT simple. You want to be a butthead. I can be one, too.

Quite frankly you are working. You are performing a job that by definition exposes you to danger, but you signed up for it. In the course of your job you have to invade the lives of people attempting to go about their business some of them are good guys and some are not.

As a man doing his job you should have a level of proffesionalism about how you interact with people. I don't care how mean or foolish they are if they don't break the law you do not have the right to treat them like a criminal (or a "butthead").

This statement is why the "treat 'em all as Jackbooted thugs" mentallity exists. If you ever act like a JBT (even if the citizen is a total jerk) then you are one.

 

[Winger Ed.]

I figure its just a moment in life, and no need to go instantly crazy, or talk yourself into some very expensive trouble.

Since you didn't think the Cop or LEO was going to walk up and blow your head off, you didn't shoot him with your licensed handgun did ya? So, relax. Turn on your car's inside light, keep smiling, and everything will be fine shortly. doing that- It always works out that way.

From the Police Officer's perspective: Look at the possibilities-

It might have been a young Cop who has had very little experiance with 'good citizens' or us 'old folks' who aren't afraid/intimidated just by being in thier presence.

Put yourself in his place:

Out wherever you were, and ya pulled over a car, not knowing who or what was inside,,,,,, How would you react and handle that situation? Would you be over cautious like he did?

Or, would you have known at a earlier stage of the game that you--- perhaps like he himself will realize in a few years or months---that he just shouldn't be a Cop in the first place?

I figure as long as you didn't get shot or have to shoot anyone else--- its all OK, and negotiable in the long run.

////////

Then again,,,, here's a example for ya:

My Grandfather was a 'Career Cop' his whole life in the Deep South. From the mid-30's until he passed away in 1975. He'd been a City Cop, a Sheriffs Duputy, a Marshal, a Police Chief, pretty much everything but a Mississippi State Trooper.

One day around 1968 or 1969, probably at age 60 or so, after 30-something years as being a Cop, and never haveing aimed his weapon at another person,,,, he pulled over a car that ran a "Yield" sign, in his little one traffic lite, whistle stop town.

I didn't think it was possible to run a Yield sign, but I guess it is- or was back then if you were a stranger with out of state license plates.

Here's this 60 or so year old Cop, and what popped out of the car he pulled over was a guy on the FBI's 10 most wanted list........ who promtply went (unhurt) to his jail, and waited for transportation/escort---- 'up North'-- as he called everything above, and East of Jackson, Miss.

,,

Roll that around in your head awhile.
I don't think there is a moral to this story, but like your's, its good food for thought.

Ed.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

For the FOURTH or FIFTH TIME.
In MT you can carry a loaded, concealed firearm in your car without any sort of license needed. So even if Dogmatix told the cop he had a CCW and even gave up his weapon how is the cop going to know whether or not he has another weapon or twenty stashed in the car.

Tallpine, do you know if your CCW is connected to your DL or License plate? I didn't think that they were. I checked the MT codes, but didn't see any mention of it.

 

[TallPine]

Tallpine, do you know if your CCW is connected to your DL or License plate? I didn't think that they were. I checked the MT codes, but didn't see any mention of it.

I have no idea ... but apparently it is according to the initial post of this thread (if that can be believed). OTOH, I hear the radio chatter for traffic stops all the time on my VFD portable, and I never hear any mention of "CCW" unless that is one of their codes that I am unfamiliar with. They always ask for 10-29 and 10-31 on an individual. That's county sheriff deputies ... maybe MHP has a direct computer lookup when they are within radio range of one of their offices.

The MT LEOs that I know and have come in contact with all seem to be reasonable and decent people. I would never expect that kind of reaction from any of the ones that I know of. Once I stopped at a game checkpoint while open carrying my .357 and the FG guy never even blinked about it.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

Yeah, I always thought they weren't connected in any way. It doesn't really make sense to bother with it when you can have the gun in the car without a permit anyway.

 

[Curare]

.....he turned it into a "oh whatcha packin" convo.

Why didn't you include that fact in your first post where he was portrayed as a JBT?

 

[Curare]

that officer DID call the prosecutor to try for a warrant... i told him that he should tell my mother hello for me while he had her on the phone... he did not find that funny, but the prosecutor really WAS my mom... she said she would ask for said warrant, but that the officer needed to state probable cause before she'd go about geting it... (she didn't know it was me who refused search yet)

Oh my! Was your vehicle searched?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

No warrant needed?

Didn't federal courts rule years ago that cars can be searched without a warrant if the officer has reason to to believe there is just cause. This was due to the mobility of cars and the fact they could easily be moved or hidden. An officer has to ask permission for a search first but if you refuse they can do a warrantless search on grounds of suspicious behavior. Just like they do not need a warrant to check your pockets.