Puma (Rossi) 454 casull Flextip loads

[snakeman]

I am thinking about hand loading my 454 ammo with 225 grain flex tips in place of 240 gr load data when i get my Puma back. Is this safe and will it perform well from the rifle? If not do any of you recommend beartooth bullets 280 gr. gas check WFN in its stead. I shot some 240 grain Hornady loads through it before that were very accurate and can rely on them if need be, but I'm just curious as to how well these hand loads will function. Any bullet recommendations for deer and hogs could come in handy too. Also, if you have some pics of groups shot from your Rossi lever guns PLEASE POST THEM HERE.

 

[snakeman]

BUMP

 

[kludge]

I have a Ruger Super Redhawk 9.5"

Get the XTP-Mag bullets, either in 240gr or my preference, 300gr. They have better BC than the FTX. Besides, the 225gr FTX is meant for .45 Colt velocity. The 240gr from a rifle in .454 Casull will be getting upwards of 2,000 fps... twice what the FTX was designed for. If you want to use a FTX, then you need the 200gr version desinged for the .460 S&W.

For deer and hogs I recommend the 300gr XTP-Mag.

With a 1750fps MV you get a MPBR (+/-2.5") of 150 yards with 1100 ft-lb remaining. You might be able to get 1800-1900fps, depending on our powder choice.

A 255gr cast LSWC with a case full of Trail Boss will probably get you in the neighborhood of 1200fps from a rifle and would STILL be a deer and hog thumper out to perhaps 100 yards. I don't have the experience with lead bullets in the .454 to recommend a full pressure lead load.

For a less intense load, I've found A-1680 under the 300gr XTP-Mag to be very nice and accurate. I also want to try the 250gr XTP with a mid-range pistol powder for a "reduced" load - more like a .44 Mag.

 

[snakeman]

cool thanks

 

[kludge]

Just wanted to say, before buying the 200gr FTX, contact Hornady to see if they have a load recommendation for that bullet in the .454. I don't know of any published load data.

Who knows, you might be able to get 2300fps with that bullet.

 

[snakeman]

I think the 240 gr. xtp mag load from hornady is blasting out of the puma at up to 2300 fps but not sure. I'm not as interested in the velocity boost as much as the reduction in recoil. Since its West Texas whitetails and lightweight hogs I figured the 225 ftx might be more appropriate. I also thought the ftx, due in part to its shape, might be constructed well enough for the velocities reached in the puma.

 

[Dr T]

There is a 200 gr FTX bullet that is used in factory loads for the 460 S&W. see http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-200-gr-FTX/

The question is whether on not the bullet is too long to function well.

 

[snakeman]

bump again

 

[snakeman]

and again...

 

[kludge]

240gr start loads run about 1725fps in my gun, and I can believe that 1900fps or perhaps even 2000fps are possible. *I* don't ever want to pull the trigger on one of those loads, however.

Well, for reduced loads there are some options... use the 250gr XTP, and load .45 Colt "Ruger Only" loads in .45 Colt cases. That will give you the reduction in recoil and the 250 XTP is excellent on deer. The BC of the 250gr XTP is about identical to the .225 FTX.

(Velocities shown are from a handgun, expect perhaps 150-300fps more from a rifle.)

250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .452" 1.600" 20.0 1150 23,500 CUP 24.6 1343 30,300 CUP
250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .452" 1.600" 25.7 1398 27,000 CUP 26.5 1455 29,800 CUP
250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Lil'Gun .452" 1.600" 23.5 1331 25,800 CUP 25.5 1410 29,800 CUP
250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Longshot .452" 1.600" 12.0 1129 22,100 CUP 13.4 1252 29,900 CUP
250 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .452" 1.600" 8.0 983 21,100 CUP 9.5 1124 29,100 CUP


Or use a faster powder in the .454 cases with the same bullet (Nosler shown in the data but you can work it up with the 250gr XTP.)

250 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon Longshot .451" 1.700" 14.5 1377 26,400 CUP 15.5 1492 36,100 CUP
250 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon HS-6 .451" 1.700" 15.0 1295 25,400 CUP 17.0 1428 34,600 CUP
250 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon Universal .451" 1.700" 10.8 1221 25,700 CUP 12.0 1290 35,300 CUP
250 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.700" 9.7 1193 24,600 CUP 11.2 1298 36,000 CUP


Hornady's load notes for the 225gr FTX show a 1000fps max load (handgun) and 1150fps (rifle). These are standard pressure .45 Colt loads. Whether or not Hornady would recommend the bullet for a "Ruger Only" load is something you would have to ask them.

http://www.hornady.com/support/downloads/load-data

 

[snakeman]

thanks you've been very helpful

 

[pricedo]

OP.....in case anybody forgets
Puma (Rossi) 454 casull Flextip loads
I am thinking about hand loading my 454 ammo with 225 grain flex tips in place of 240 gr load data when i get my Puma back. Is this safe and will it perform well from the rifle? If not do any of you recommend beartooth bullets 280 gr. gas check WFN in its stead. I shot some 240 grain Hornady loads through it before that were very accurate and can rely on them if need be, but I'm just curious as to how well these hand loads will function. Any bullet recommendations for deer and hogs could come in handy too. Also, if you have some pics of groups shot from your Rossi lever guns PLEASE POST THEM HERE

After the original thread got lost in the dust of several hijacks I'd still be interested in the OPs original question about flex tip (Hornady FTX) data for the Rossi Puma Model 92 (.454 Casull).

Anybody have any luck with Hornady FTX (mine are 250 grain) bullets in the Rossi Puma M92 in .454 Casull?


Loads and range results would be appreciated.

 

[kludge]

Are you saying you have 250gr FTX bullets that are 0.452"?

For the 225gr FTX, I might try 240gr data using a mid range pistol powder (Universal). Might have to trim the cases to make the FTX feed.

But by then it would probably be easier to load them into .45 Colt cases.

 

[Panzercat]

I hate all of you.

Just saying. Finally located a vendor on this rifle and can't have it until my b-day in march lest I incur the wrath of beautiful but deadly. Still, there is the HATE. For you. All of you.

Bastards.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Panzercat, you should do what I did, trade your current model "beautiful but deadly" in for a more understanding model that shoots too! Once you get them to the range you will hear "No problem honey" a LOT more (As long as you get goodies for her too)

 

[pricedo]

Are you saying you have 250gr FTX bullets that are 0.452"?

For the 225gr FTX, I might try 240gr data using a mid range pistol powder (Universal). Might have to trim the cases to make the FTX feed.

But by then it would probably be easier to load them into .45 Colt cases.

Yup!!

250 grainers in .452.

3 boxes of the suckers.

Already checked it out.........they'll work fine.

 

[kludge]

You must mean the ones for the .450 Bushmaster?

How you gonna crimp those?

 

[pricedo]

Not my first day at the loading bench

You must mean the ones for the .450 Bushmaster?

How you gonna crimp those?

The 250's don't have a cannelure but I won't need a crimp.

The bullets will be seated almost to the base of the ogive by necessity so there'll be lots of grip surface (shank of bullet to inside of case) to hold the bullet in place and the flex tips will act as recoil shock absorbers as well as cushion the primers and the bullet will be seated on the powder which will create even more support.

Don't foresee a problem.

Crimping is a last resort for me because crimping, especially roll crimping as opposed to taper crimping shortens case life. If I don't need to crimp I don't.

The .454 is a straight case that is "all neck" in contrast to a bottleneck like a .300 Win. Mag. which has a very short neck and a correspondingly small grip surface to hold the bullet in place which needs to be crimped for some of my bolt actions.

 

[RPRNY]

Thanks and new info

I know this is dredging up an old post, but I found this thread helpful (as I have others on THR) as I was looking for info on rifle/carbine loads for my 45LC/454 Casull H&R Stutzen and thought I would do my bit by adding info on some loads that will certainly work in T/C break actions and H&R break actions and that with a good taper crimp may work in the Rossi lever guns.

ALL DUE CAUTION should be used when evaluating load data from unknown sources (like me). Having said that, neither of these are MAX loads and both are based on published Hodgdon and Hornady data. That said, the 45 Colt load is a definite +P load, hot and only for FA, Ruger, T/C, H&R, Rossi hardware suited to hot, modern loads:

First, the .45 SMBM (Super Mini Bushmaster - based on the Hornady 250 gr SST used in their 450 Bushmaster factory ammo) :

Hornady 45 Colt brass, WLP, Hornady 250 SST (non-cannelure) over 26 grs H110. COL with bullet seated 1/4" is 1.787" I have no pressure data on this round, but based on published data, it should be in the low to lower mid 30K psi range. 20" barrel chrono'd avg 1573 fps over 10 rounds. They were as accurate as I can shoot.

Next the .45 MBM (Mini Bushmaster). This is a mid range Casull load from Hornady, but I have substituted the 250 gr SST for the 240 gr XTP Mag that their load is based on (BEWARE). Pressures will be higher in this load than for the 240 XTP MAG. I have no pressure data for this load. I have not chrono'd this round but expect 2000+ fps from 20" barrel. This is pretty heavy and at the upper end of the accuracy spectrum. Groups are not tight, but still Minute of Deer.

Hornady 454 brass, WSR, Hornady 225 SST (non-cannelure) over 35.2 grs H110. Bullet seated to 1/4", touching but not compressing powder. COL (including polymer tip) 1.989" In my reamed 45 Colt H&R barrel, it is not touching the lands. Not sure if COL will work for a levergun, but I believe this load can be slightly compressed without major pressure spikes. NEVERTHELESS, you don't know me and I could be an idiot, so feel free to work up from 34.5 grs or so.

I am using these loads in a single shot break action handi rifle. I suspect a good taper crimp would suffice for use in a lever gun, but I don't know this to be true. I hope others may find this load data helpful as I did the discussion above, but please use all due caution should you chose to use this load data.