Queasy Feeling I Just Can't Shake...

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I think about this a lot. I have found a lot more respect lately for those that stood for freedom on April 19, 1775. They weren't the popular heroes of the day, they were considered the radical wackos who started a war with the British Empire. When they pledged their lives fortunes and sacred honor, they really did give it all. It could be quite similar what is on the horizon. After all, the redcoats were on a munitions raid, coming to take the guns away.
So, if history repeats itself, those that stand up for freedom like the founding fathers will pay with their sacred honor, all their fortunes, and probably their lives. They may not be heroes of the time, in fact they will probably be considered wackos. But, I believe freedom is worth standing up for.
Also: As long as we fight the good fight now, the soft war, if you will, it may never come to that. If you care about your rights, do something about it.
 
Best thing to do now is VOTE.

Nationally, well, there's not a lot of options. But vote. Not for the perfect candidate, because that candidate doesn't exist. Vote for the one who will do the least damage.

And locally, vote for the candidate who will do the best. And work -against- the candidates who you think will cause problems.

I like cold beer, recliners, movies on TV, and being able to decide what -I- want to do. Civil War II is gonna suck. So vote to avoid it.

But have a plan. Always have a plan. We don't need leaders. We need people with plans.
 
Bogie,

I see your point on a plan vs leaders. Good point.

And I vote every chance I get :)

I think whe share a mutual love for beer, recliners and steaks... and guns, too, I think ;)
 
The midnight SWAT raid is terrifying, but how many people can they disarm before word gets out and people start sleeping with a cuddly black rifle?
 
elChupacabra: I was speaking generally as far as my comment about a lot to lose. I think we need a combination of:

When I talk about "alot to lose," what I'm really talking about is the transition away from peaceful methods of resisting change, like voting, writing representatives, joining the NRA, etc. to forcibly defending a right.

I'm really trying to add some texture to the common "I'll never give up my guns" discussion. I think alot of people haven't considered what that entails.
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and this:

I have found a lot more respect lately for those that stood for freedom on April 19, 1775. They weren't the popular heroes of the day, they were considered the radical wackos who started a war with the British Empire. When they pledged their lives fortunes and sacred honor, they really did give it all. It could be quite similar what is on the horizon. After all, the redcoats were on a munitions raid, coming to take the guns away.
So, if history repeats itself, those that stand up for freedom like the founding fathers will pay with their sacred honor, all their fortunes, and probably their lives. They may not be heroes of the time, in fact they will probably be considered wackos. But, I believe freedom is worth standing up for.
Also: As long as we fight the good fight now, the soft war, if you will, it may never come to that. If you care about your rights, do something about it.
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So we should all take a reasoned approach to what we are facing. Alas, I don't think it is going to matter because most people, and most gun owners it appears, are the type that it just doesn't matter unless it has a direct affect on them.

I have a sneaking hunch that in a couple of years it will be affecting all of us. Except for maybe Leedavisone. :)
 
Snarky comment deleted.

My apologies to ctdonath for taking his post out of context.
 
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The "SWAT RAIDS" that we talk about happening, I think are way down the road after most have handed in their guns with nothing more than a frown.

Then someone will leak info about some crazy guy in his neighborhood that has an "arsenal" of guns and that is when you will see the raids happen.

Obviously voting is key, but when you look at the overall intelligence of the American people that vote in these morons, you have to really wonder.

I think Halo hit it right on the head:

There's a saying that freedom ends as soon as the people figure out that they can vote portions of the treasury to themselves. I think that is at the core of our problem; those candidates with anti-freedom agendas simply have to promise this group and that group a little bit of gold from Uncle Sugar. I think most people would tolerate any number of onerous regulations, especially if they don't really apply to them, in exchange for a "free" this or that.
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Watching our gun rights go up in smoke will just be a side dish that none of us will want to eat, but none of us will have the power to stop it either.
 
History Repeats Itself.

I give you the promise of a better place/society and you give me what I deem is neccessary to provide this to you. When times get tough majority of the people looks for a quick fix and they sign up to go along for the ride. America always seems to be on a seesaw going one way and then another. People have their idea of what America was/is/and what they want it to be. That's the good and bad thing of being in America, everybody gets a say.

Remain vigilante and do not falter for this is not a practice or a game.

We are playing for keeps.
 
"Not the .32 Smith & Wesson, or the 1911, or the Winchester 94... but the outrageous."
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-Leedavisone

The outrageous like the AR-15, the FAL, the M-14, Barrett .50s? Is that outrageous to you? Is a high-cap mag outrageous?

Maybe I think it is outrageous that you have a gun that can obviously kill a lot of people like that lever gun that can shoot 6 rounds before you reload. That revolver can be reloaded too fast too. Let's ban those while we are at it. How will that SASS shooting go now that you have a flintlock rifle and pistol, because the others are too dangerous.

Who decides what is outrageous? You? I cannot believe as a gun owner that you haven't thought more deeply about that before posting it.

I'm not even going to talk about your comment, "But isn't that what we all want to do secretly?". Quick answer - NO. Why in the world would I, or anyone else, want to shoot another human being? A person most likely with a family.

You sound like a kid who plays too much Halo or Rainbow Six.
 
Thank you, myrockfight. Your response to that perversion, and such it surely is, was far more civil than any I could muster.

One small point, and folks kind of dance around it, is the immutable fact that in any project involving heavy lifting, a very small percentage of the folks will do all the heavy lifting. "Never have so many . . . "

There will not be any great awakening when the 80 million or so gun owners in this country all cowboy up and start taking action (let alone coordinated action). It won't be the next useful-rifle ban, it won't be the next tax on ammo, it sure as heck will NOT be the next public shooting, when they all realize, "that could have been me or mine bleeding out on the sidewalk." The vast, vast majority, inasmuch as they think on it at all, are quite content to let the few do the lifting for them. Most do not think on it at all. Period.

That is not meant as some sort of moral judgement on that segment of gun owners. Some of us lack the resources, some lack much talent, some are just too damned tired after putting food on the table. And others just do not appreciate what, precisely, is at stake.

Not all of us drank the milk of liberty with mammy's pap. Not all of us had dad showing us not just how that rifle works, but why it's continued presence matters. Some of us blundered along in blissful ignorance until we each, in his own way, had a moment of epiphany. Some of us will never have even that much.

All of which is a long-about way to say, keep slogging. Keep lifting. Do it because it matters to you and your children and to each of your neighbors. And in the end, do not despair.

"Duty is ours; results are God's."
 
There will not be any great awakening when the 80 million or so gun owners in this country all cowboy up and start taking action (let alone coordinated action). It won't be the next useful-rifle ban, it won't be the next tax on ammo, it sure as heck will NOT be the next public shooting, when they all realize, "that could have been me or mine bleeding out on the sidewalk." The vast, vast majority, inasmuch as they think on it at all, are quite content to let the few do the lifting for them. Most do not think on it at all. Period.
That is not meant as some sort of moral judgement on that segment of gun owners. Some of us lack the resources, some lack much talent, some are just too damned tired after putting food on the table. And others just do not appreciate what, precisely, is at stake.
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Well said.
 
Queasy - uneasy or uncomfortable.

Quiescent - being at rest; quiet; still; inactive or motionless.

Ummmm, I think I'll stick with queasy. The next 4 years along with the effect it will have on the Supreme Court for 20+ years has me very uneasy and uncomfortable, which leads me to take action. However, this thread isn't designed for people to brag about what they are doing to promote gun rights, so I will leave it at that.

I would say a good number of gun owners are quite quiescent when it comes to defending their gun rights, but maybe I am wrong.
 
made up this little fantasy to scare people?
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What of it is "fantasy"? That's what FMCDH comes down to: the reality of "it's your turn". It's the scenario I'd face: wife, child, nice home, known target.

Now, that said, Weezy gives the counter I was going to give: word will spread fast. Stuff may be handed over, but not all of it. Everyone wants to go home at the end of the day; for what reasons might some choose not to?
 
But if a knock came at my door in the dark of night, what would I do? We all like to say "when they come for your guns, let 'em have em, BULLETS FIRST!" but I don't think, in reality, it's that easy. If each member of this thread did that, there would be thousands of dead THR members and almost as many widows and orphans. Think about that for a minute.
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SWAT team shows up at your front door demanding 'em.
Your wife calls from another room "honey, what's going on?" while nursing your baby daughter.
You're not armed, having just gotten out of the shower & thrown on jeans & t-shirt to answer the door.
One wrong twitch and you'll be on the floor in cuffs.
Try something dangerous and you won't be walking your daughter down the aisle, or even see her first step.
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If it comes won't be a surprise in the night.
Politicians will have pounded the podium demanding a safer America, for the children of course. The NRA and gun owners will have been further made to look like slack jawed mouth breathing hillbillies and vile uncouth misogynists. The debate will rage in the halls of congress for months but in the end we will not have the votes to prevent it.
The main stream media will crow it to the far corners of the world about how much safer we will all be once all he evil guns are collected. The lawsuits will begin but most of the guns will have been collected and destroyed before the appeals process even gets started good.

It won't be a surprise in the night.
(Well, I guess there will always be a few who weren't paying attention.)

Or, we can stand together and say "NO, this will not happen".

If the day comes I'll be there, shoulder to shoulder with my fellow freedon lovers. There are those of us in which the spirit of Patrick Henry still resides
 
Or, we can stand together and say "NO, this will not happen".

If the day comes I'll be there, shoulder to shoulder with my fellow freedon lovers. There are those of us in which the spirit of Patrick Henry still resides
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That's exactly the hard part. Getting those who love their freedom enough to DIE for it to go outside and STAND. That's something maybe only 10% of all gun owners would even CONSIDER doing, and a big bunch of them would have to think long and hard about it before they do.

How do you convince them?

EDITED - 10% may be overly optimistic. It might be more like 1%. I'm not sure but I don't feel like being optimistic about this.
 
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Conservative estimates of 80+ million gun owners in our country.

1% of 80 million would only be 800,000.

10% I believe is probably high but would yield 8,000,000.

Probably somewhere in between on the lower end. My guess is you would be looking at maybe 3 to 5% max, maybe 3 million.

I don't want this to turn into a doomsday scenario thread, but it is a good question as to how many would actually stand up and fight.

I think the assessments by many stating the obvious that most would go along with it because of the "perceived" benefits it would bring.

Where is that line in the sand for the hardcore gun owners? Looking at the laws that people in California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Hawaii, Massachussetts, Washington D.C., and other areas, tells me that people will live with a lot of crap for a very long time.

I wonder if there are even enough hardcore Texans left to make a difference, I used to think that would be the last refuge for us gun owners, but who knows? Things in Austin continue to move a certain way as well. :evil:
 
Or, we can stand together and say "NO, this will not happen".
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That is the dream, but I have little confidence that will happen. I know The High Road is one of the more tame gun forums to be found, but some of the differing opinions on this forum in regards to conceal carry, open carry, when to use a gun, if at all; gun rights, and other sensitive topics, doesn't instill much more confidence for me that gun owners will stand together and not let it happen.

As I have said, I believe the good majority of gun owners will be handing over their weapons with not much more than a frown.

Kind of sad.
 
will have been collected and destroyed before the appeals process even gets started
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It's that "been collected" thing that's the problem. See, at some point the rhetoric will come to an end and someone will actually try, on a large authorized scale, to take 'em. ...and there's about 200,000,000 of 'em to take. Frankly, ain't happenin'.

So long as there's lots of hot air and ink expended on the topic, we're largely OK. On the whole (save a few relatively small jurisdictions those therein may be better off leaving) nearly anyone can legally buy nearly anything they like. So long as you can get a scoped AR15 and a case of M855 for each family member for under $2000, we're fine*. See, for all the rhetoric and hysteria, the infringements are few.

While vigilance is eternally warranted, this "they're coming to confiscate!" hysteria is little more than just that - hysteria. Relax, guys. What, really, could BHO et al do that a little non-cooperation can't solve in short order?

* - The '94 AWB did little to affect this.
 
"We should limit the weapons that they have access to."

In the figurative today, Leedavisone, it will be them. In the figurative tomorrow, it just might be you. After all, who except the politicians (wasn't it Socrates who said some along the lines of the following "Representatives, being elected by the people, should do what was best for the people, wether the people liked it or not.") will design, pass, and have said laws enforced?

Be careful what you wish for, Leedavisone.
 
ctdonath: I think you do a good job of describing what most gun owners believe in this country.

"Be alert, watch what happens, but in the end, there is no way they can get 200 + million guns from 80+ million gun owners."

I used to think that could never happen, I saw the strides being made for gun rights as momentum and a great thing. But the Supreme Court ruling scared the bejesus out of me, and that is where the real power lies in this country. Once they have spoken, you have no further avenues to explore. And with the likely winner in November, partnered with the majority in the House and Senate, I really don't see it as unlikely that gun ownership is going to get tough in this country.

Are they going to demand all the guns be turned in? No. But it will be just like everywhere else, they will outlaw one thing at a time, and pretty soon you will be limited to a certain number of guns, a certain type of guns, or a certain use for guns. I don't like it, but let's be realistic, IT ALREADY IS THE LAW in several states in our country.

I know it sounds alarmist, but talk to someone in Australia or Great Britain about what happened there, hence my original question of, "are we gun owners going to be sitting around wondering how this happened?"
 
IMHO, in the national election, if you do not vote, vote for a protest "third party" candidate, or vote for "change," then you also need to just shut up when stuff happens that you don't like. I wonder how many union members are going to vote for "change," and then be disturbed when they actually find out what kind of "change" they are getting...
 
SWAT team shows up at your front door demanding 'em.
Your wife calls from another room "honey, what's going on?" while nursing your baby daughter.
You're not armed, having just gotten out of the shower & thrown on jeans & t-shirt to answer the door.
One wrong twitch and you'll be on the floor in cuffs.
Try something dangerous and you won't be walking your daughter down the aisle, or even see her first step.

Now, what was that about "never"?
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Sadly, if this were ever to come to pass like this, the vast majority of people would give up their guns. I probably would, too. My family gains absolutely nothing from having me killed should I resist because I wanted to make a point only to have my neighbors say, "Sh^t man, that's not going to happen to me!", and simply turn them over because I was the example. I know it's not the manly "molon labe" crap that everyone spouts on all the gun boards out there. Believe me, when push comes to shove, people, myself included, will want to live another day and be with our families. This is the more likely reality.
 
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