Question about rugers 45acp 45 colt convertable

[glockky]

First off does the 45colt 45acp convertables come with 2 cylinders or use the same one?

And are they accurate with both calibers? I just cant see them shooting as good with both where there is .001 difference in the bullet size.

Do u have problems with leading using lead bullets with one caliber due to undersized bullets? thanks

 

[jmr40]

I had one briefly. Mine wasn't very accurate with either. I didn't keep it very long.

 

[glockky]

Well i havent bought one but i cant see it working very well.

 

[CraigC]

Two cylinders. They work very well in both chamberings. There is no difference in bullet diameter. Both use .451" for jacketed and .452" for cast. Fear not, it works.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Craig beat me to it. You cannot fire 45 Colt and 45 ACP from the same cylinder. 45 Colt headspaces on the rim, 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The 45 ACP cylinder for a Blackhawk has shorter chambers, specifically for 45 ACP. The only way to fire 45 ACP in a 45 Colt cylinder is to mill away a portion of the rear of the cylinder to allow the use of half moon clips to hold the cartridge steady for a firing pin strike.

Here is a photo of my convertible Blackhawk that I bought brand, spanky new in 1975. I have never had any problems shooting either caliber in it.

 

[glockky]

I am pretty sure 45 long colt is .452 for jacketed.

 

[buck460XVR]

A good friend of mine bought one a while back. Said it made sense to him back when he used factory ammo, but now that he reloads, he hasn't used the ACP cylinder, and since he has no other .45ACP guns, he hasn't even bought dies. Told me that cost of reloading for either is the same and that the POI was so different that it required adjusting the sights. Another friend just bought one this last week. He reloads too, so I'm interested to see if he comes to the same conclusion.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I am pretty sure 45 long colt is .452 for jacketed.

Howdy Again

No, standard bullet diameter for jacketed 45 Colt ammo is .451. Standard cast bullet diameter for 45 Colt is .452.

Once upon a time, when 45 Colt was first introduced in 1873, standard rifling groove diameter was .454. That is why you will often find both .454 and .452 diameter bullets labeled as suitable for 45 Colt. When 45 ACP was first introduced, around 1905 or so if memory serves, standard groove diameter was .451. Colt stopped production of the Single Action Army in 1940. After the War, the SAA was not produced again until 1956. At that time, groove diameter for 45 Colt was changed from .454 to .451, in order to be more compatible with 45 ACP. Ever since that time, SAAMI spec for 45 Colt and 45 ACP rifling has been the same, .451.

When choosing a jacketed bullet for either one, it is best to match the rifling groove diameter, .451. When choosing a cast bullet for just about any caliber, it is best to choose one .001 larger in diameter that the rifling groove diameter. So standard cast bullet diameter for both 45 Colt and 45 ACP after 1956 has been .452.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Told me that cost of reloading for either is the same and that the POI was so different that it required adjusting the sights.

Isn't that why you buy a revolver with adjustable sights in the first place?

 

[Hammerdown77]

I am pretty sure 45 long colt is .452 for jacketed.

Hornady makes some jacketed 45 caliber bullets that are .452", but almost all other jacketed 45 caliber bullets are .451" diameter.

There is not a specific "45 Colt diameter" bullet. They and the 45 Auto and the 454 Casull use the same diameter bullet, the exception being some of the older 45 Colt guns need a .454 diameter bullet to account for the larger throat size those guns tend to have. All current Rugers will take .451 or .452.

The 45 convertible Blackhawk is one of the most accurate single actions I have. Anyone who has shot any .45 Auto revolver knows how inherently accurate they are, and the Blackhawk with a 45 Auto cylinder is no exception. I think my gun with that cylinder is more accurate than with the Colt cylinder, especially using 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter style bullets.

They are MUCH more accurate than the Blackhawk using the 9mm cylinder in the 357/9mm convertible models.

 

[CraigC]

I am pretty sure 45 long colt is .452 for jacketed.

I'm 110% certain you're wrong. Why would you post a question and then argue with the answers??? While you're "pretty sure" about incorrect information you probably got from a gun shop, some of us have actually been "doing it" for years.

 

[BCCL]

Love mine, shoots just fine!

 

[glockky]

actually Craig i have been reloading for over 10 years. But i have never loaded 45 long colt. I guess i am stupid because the people at hornday list bullets xtp bullets at .452 in my reloading catalog. I guess reading info right in front of me makes me stupid. Thats whats wrong with this site there is always someone waiting to cut somebody down who doesnt have all the info. Thats fine though i bet your one of those guys whos wife bosses him around and you have to get on the internet feel bad. Wow I am so much cooler onilne.

 

[ghitch75]

mine shoots great with either or...

 

[Jim K]

.451" vs .452"?

Didn't someone once say something like, "Never, in the history of human endeavour, have so many people argued so much about so little."

Jim

 

[Coal Dragger]

The jacketed bullets available for .45LC and .454 Casull include both .451 and .452 depending on bullet maker. For example Speer makes them .452, and so does Hornady. Sierra makes them .4515 if I recall, and Barnes lists them at .451. They all work just fine. In fact they would all work just fine crammed into a stubby .45ACP case if you can get them to fit length wise since some of them are big long heavy buggers.

I plan on having a .45ACP cylinder made for my Freedom Arms. Maybe I'll load a bunch of jacketed .452 bullets in .45ACP brass and report the results.

 

[hogshead]

Got one love it. It shoots both loads fine.

 

[David E]

With the ACP cylinder installed, you can use 1911 magazines as a "speed loader" of sorts.

Place the mag at the loading gate and push in a cartridge with your thumb as each empty chamber comes by.

 

[loadedround]

I own an OM Vaquero 5.5 in bbl in 45 Colt. Several years ago I purchased a new 45 ACP cylinder on GB for 75.00. I fitted it to my Vaquero with a minimum amount of filling and had had my gunsmith give it a safety check prior to firing it. Firing my 200 gr LSWC ACP target load I was getting extremly tight groups at the point of aim from 20 yds (indoor range). I tried this load using a firm pistol rest and could put 4 out of 5 rounds into a 2'' circle; the fith round being a flyer just outside the 2'' circle. Hopes this sheds some light on a Ruger 45C/45 ACP convertible.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So am I going to get in trouble if I mention that the official designation of the caliber is 45 Colt, not 45 Long Colt?

 

[Jim Watson]

No, I'll let you slide on that, considering that you know the difference between bore and groove.

How do groove +.001" bullets work for you vs cylinder throat diameter?
(That ought to be the same, but manufacturers get sloppy.)

 

[CraigC]

That's whats wrong with this site there is always someone waiting to cut somebody down who doesn't have all the info. That's fine though i bet your one of those guys whose wife bosses him around and you have to get on the internet feel bad. Wow I am so much cooler online.

It's very indicative of one's character when you point out their error and they respond with personal insults.

Sorry, it just chaps my hide when folks ask questions on the internet and then argue with the answer. Why are we going to the trouble of answering your questions if you already know the answer???

And to pile onto Driftwood's point, there is no such thing as the .45 "Long" Colt. Never was, never will be. It is simply the .45Colt. If you must continue the "Long" argument, then please go ahead and select which cartridge you're using "Long" to differentiate from:
.45ACP (.45Auto)
.45S&W (aka .45Schofield)
.45Government (long defunct, Colt rim, S&W length)

 

[ECVMatt]

Well I wasn't even going to answer after all this negative banter, but I have .45 Colt/ACP Blackhawk and it is a great gun. I sight in with ACP and plink with light Colt loads that I make up.

It is tons of fun and I really like mine. I just shoot for enjoyment and the 0.001 doesn't bother me that much...

 

[What Would You Say]

I got into Single action Colt and USFA collecting last year. haven't gotten the dual cylinder yet, so it's interesting to read the different opinions on the usefulness and accuracy of the 45 ACP / 45LC cylinders used in the same gun. ... I had read somewhere previously though that the 45 colt cartridge was not really the "Long Colt", but I call it that myself all the time.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

How do groove +.001" bullets work for you vs cylinder throat diameter?
(That ought to be the same, but manufacturers get sloppy.)

Let's see, I'm counting on my fingers how many revolvers I have that are chambered for 45 Colt. 2 2nd Gen Colts, One Cimarron Cattleman, 2 1858 Remmies with R&D conversion cylinders, 3 Ruger Vaqueros, 1 Ruger Blackhawk. I think that's it. Not bragging, just want to mention that there are more than one.

I know the Colts are like most 2nd Gen Colts, the chamber throats are a little bit large, probably around .455 or so. I seem to recall most of the Rugers are right on the money, around .452 or so. The conversion cylinders are right on the money, around .452. I have no idea what the Cimarron is, I haven't shot it for years. So with the Colts, I could be shooting .454 bullets if I wanted to, that would fill up the .455 chambers nicely. But that would be overkill for the Rugers, all they need is a .452 bullet. And way overkill for the Conversion cylinders, because one of revolvers that I shoot with them has very tight rifling grooves, about .449 if I recall correctly. So as with many things, rather than load cartridges with different bullet diameters for different guns I have compromised on .452 for all my 45 Colt loads.

This works out particularly well because almost all of my 45 Colt rounds are loaded with Black Powder. I can't remember the last time I loaded 45 Colt with Smokeless. Shooting BP means I am using soft bullets, about 20/1 lead/tin. The relatively soft bullets probably bump up a bit in the loose chamber throats of the Colts. It does not really matter too much because for some reason that I have never totally understood there is absolutely no leading with Black Powder. So the typical problem of bullets softening on the side from hot gasses slipping past in the chamber throats just does not happen when shooting Black Powder.

I do know that one of the casters of Big Lube bullets sells far more .454 bullets than .452. I also know that some Cowboys claim better accuracy with .454 in their guns, even though the majority of them have never slugged their barrels or measured their chamber throats.

For me, for better or for worse, I size all my 45 Colt and 45 Schofield bullets to .452 and everything works out well. If I miss, it was my fault, not the bullet.