question about single action semi-auto

[noonanda]

I have a question for those of you that carry a single action semi-auto pistol with external hammer. Do you carry one in the chamber, and if so do you have the hammer forward with safety on or hammer to the rear safety on. or do you carry on an empty chamber??

I was just hinking about it and wondered. I do not CHL but have tossed around the idea of getting one any there are alot of people that could probably answer my question.

Now I know this is a bad example but say I wanted to carry my CZ-52. for those of you that have one, does it (or most pistols) have a disconnect so that if the hammer is forward on a loaded chamber but the weapon is on safe the hammer could not be banged/pushed forward causing the firing pin to set off a round?? I am using this as an example because this is what I have now, but in the future I may get a makarov and am wondering the same thing.

I dont have much experience with pistols other than the govt issued berretta and that is both single and double action.

Thanks

 

[browningguy]

Cocked and Locked!

Single action, and in my mind traditional double action autos, should be carried round chambered, hammer back, safety engaged. That's the way Mr. Browning designed the single action auto (eg Colt 1911 and Browning High Power). Sorry but don't know about the CZ52.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I carry my BHP with a round chambered, hammer back and safety on. Same with my Kimber 1911.

 

[Kim]

Cocked and Locked. I have a holster that has a piece of leather that snaps between the hammer and firing pin. I have dropped it ----once.

 

[WT]

I carry cocked and locked.

However, my first instructor, a hard core World War II marine who was a champion bullseye shooter, carried his 1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. Did so for years.

 

[Husker1911]

The CZ52 MIGHT be a different case, since it's a single action but sports a decocker. As far as a 1911 or 1935HP, it's actually a very dumb thing to chamber a round and then lower the hammer. Think about it. One has to PULL THE TRIGGER to lower that hammer upon a chambered round. Then one has to manually pull that same hammer back to cock it in order to fire the gun. There's TWO excellent chances for a negligent discharge. A certain Mr. John Browning, who knew a thing or two about firearm design, found condition one, cocked and locked, perfectly acceptable. OTH, condition three, loaded magazine empty chamber, is 97% perfectly sensible.

 

[Coltdriver]

Each gun will have a slightly different set of features.

I carry a Browning Hi Power with a round in the chamber but not cocked and locked.

I carry with a round in the chamber because on the MKIII there is a firing pin block. If there were no firing pin block then there is no way I would carry with one in the chamber. Just my paranoid stance.

That older style of pistol is also the reason I have sought out an automatic with a double action then single action capability with a firing pin block. Add a decocker and you have the modern fire arms configuration.

I would also give consideration to the level of readiness you want to be at. In over 10 years of carrying a pistol I have never had actual occasion to pull it. But then again I am not in the law enforcement or security or some other relatively dangerous business.

 

[foghornl]

Springfield "GI-45" 1911-A1 cocked-n-locked

Ruger KP-90 hammer down, safety on. If hammer is back, and put on safe, hammer falls. This is a manual-saftey model, NOT a de-cocker version.

 

[lwsimon]

I carry a CZ-52 with JHP's, and its hammer back, safety one - cocked and locked. The decocker on the weapon is unreliable, extensive wear turns it into a secondary trigger. Aftermarket firing pins, which you NEED anyhow, deactivate this "feature". There is no reason to lower the hammer on a live round, EVER.

 

[Gunnutz13]

I carry cocked and locked...

with all my semi-auto single action pistols...as JM Browning intended...to include my 1935 FN Hi-Power, my Colt Gold Cup National Match, and my Para Ordnance p12-45. Pull and thumb swipe as you bring it to bear...

 

[noonanda]

I carry a CZ-52 with JHP's, and its hammer back, safety one - cocked and locked. The decocker on the weapon is unreliable, extensive wear turns it into a secondary trigger. Aftermarket firing pins, which you NEED anyhow, deactivate this "feature". There is no reason to lower the hammer on a live round, EVER.

I have tested my decocker on my CZ-52 and it does work as designed BUT it is not a reliable item from what I have read online so I dont use it.

I guess what made me ask the questions is due to my experience with the berretta in the Marines. When I was on 43 area guard and the times ive carried live ammo we carried one in the chamber, weapon on safe, hammer down. Maybe an armorer type can tell me yes the berretta has a firing pin disconnect if the hammer is down, I cant remember.

lwsimon
How do you like carrying your CZ-52? I'm planning on buying a 9mm barrel from makarov.com as well as the 16.5 lb spring and replacement rolles for the barrel. Like I said I dont have a CHL, right now the only time I could see myself carrying it would be as a back-up gun unconcealed while hunting Feral hogs. And if I gotta draw it it means my rifle just took a big dump on me. So the odds are not likely but are there. I have the original firing pin in it now, and another one in case I break it firing surplus ammo. But I dont dry fire it without a snapcap and it seems like a pretty rugged design. And what is nice is it fits perfectly into my Govt issue M-12(?) Berretta holster. Now I just need to get a couple more mags for it. Has anyone tried the aftermarket mags like triple KKK?? or are they junk?

 

[ojibweindian]

I carry cocked-and-locked. About the safest way to carry a 1911.

 

[longtooth]

Like the rest

I carry my Kimber Compac Cocked & Locked. That is the way it is designed to be carried. With thumb safety & beaver tail safety it is quite safe for anyone w/ experience shooting a single action simi. It is twice as SAFETYED (if webster thinks that is a word) as a revolver. If you ever need it you probably will not have time to chamber. If you are in an assault situation & are trying to fight as well as get to you gun, both hands will be out of the Q. Just hope your strong hand is the one free & attackers do not have it pinned so you can't get to your weapon. I encourage you to get your CHL or what ever your state calls their permit to carry. Also the Baretta 92 is a good arm. Have read of several on this site & packing.org that carry a 92. My son is in the military & really likes the one he has. I know nothing of the CZ's. They that love liberty more than life die only once. They that fear death more than oppression die every time they close their eyes. Me.

 

[yayarx7]

The Berreta M9 does indeed have a firing pin block. Of course you know that the M9 also has a safety/de-cocker that automatically de-cocks the pistol when you apply the safety. I cannot think of an example of modern single action pistol with a de-cocker, I also cannot think of a reason to carry a single action autoloader with the hammer down, necessitating the cocking of the hammer before firing.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Cocked-and-locked was the Army standard from the outset. Remember, the M1911 was a cavalry weapon (the Armor branch still has functional proponency for pistols). The Army needed a pistol that could be carried at the ready and returned to the holster in a safe condition -- by a man who had his hand full trying to control an excited horse.

The general conditions for carrying the M1911 are:

CONDITION 1 -- cocked and locked.
CONDITION 2 -- hammer down on a loaded round
CONDITION 3 -- loaded magazine, chamber empty.

The Army manuals dictated Condition 3 unless there was the likelihood of immediate need for the gun, and then it should be carried Condition 1. Condition 2 was never recommended or authorized.

Some people have pointed out the danger of lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber, and the likelihood that you may slip while thumb-cocking the gun as you draw it.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

I cannot think of an example of modern single action pistol with a de-cocker, I also cannot think of a reason to carry a single action autoloader with the hammer down, necessitating the cocking of the hammer before firing.

Didn't Safari Arms make a funky decocker type weapon? 1911 pattern but when cocked you pushed the hammer forward then the "safety" recocked the hammer. Not exactly a decocker but close.

 

[Amish_Bill]

single actions - cocked & locked
double actions - chambered, hammer down, safety off (if they have a safety)

general question - are there any single actions that you can safe when the hammer is down? I know that's impossible on a standard 1911.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I guess what made me ask the questions is due to my experience with the berretta in the Marines. When I was on 43 area guard and the times ive carried live ammo we carried one in the chamber, weapon on safe, hammer down. Maybe an armorer type can tell me yes the berretta has a firing pin disconnect if the hammer is down, I cant remember.

That Beretta is NOT a single-action gun. Its DA/SA, starting from hammer down.

If a single-action gun has a firing pin safety and a safety that works when the hammer's cocked, the only reason for carrying hammer down is that you, because of your cool head, lightning speed, and outstanding accuracy, jut want to give the bad guy a bigger head start -- to make the run-in more exciting.

 

[crucible]

Didn't Safari Arms make a funky decocker type weapon? 1911 pattern but when cocked you pushed the hammer forward then the "safety" recocked the hammer. Not exactly a decocker but close.

That's the Cylinder and Slide SFS system that's made for both the BHP and 1911's. I tested one long term and it works well (adding an ingenious firing pin safety to 70 series and noticeably improving an already good trigger in the process).

After loading normally, the trigger is pressed forward which automatically locks the thumb safety in it's up position (As well as locking the hammer, sear and slide in the process), and the weapon is made completely safe with the hammer down. When one wants to fire it, the thumb safety is depressed off (down) normally, and the hammer then springs back into it's firing position immediately with a satisfying 'twang'. Repeat the first step when you want to stop firing-at any time-and safe the weapon for carrying.

Kind of a manual decocker yes (great analogy!), but more than that too.

Chris

 

[noonanda]

Walt
I know the berretta is SA/DA. What I was trying to say though is that is really the only automatic that I have carried with a round in the chamber, and thats why I asked about peoples experiences and how they carry a auto that is SA only.

Like I said, I do not CC but want to find out as much as possible so if one day I legally can, or if I open carry while hunting. I have also heard that, just because a safety is on doesn't mean its safe or something similar, so I wanted to see how others looked at it.

For those that have answered my questions thanks alot