Question-Different way- How many reloads?

[gifbohane]

OK. Many guys ask how many reloads can I get out of say 9MM cases? So now I am.

The stock answer is until the neck splits or I lose them in the grass.

I have an experiment going on that theory. I have a few thousand that are on their fifth cycle and have not had split necks or been lost....yet.

Now, in addition to five timers I have a bucket load of "once fired" that may or not be once fired since they are range pick up.

My plan was to find out how many firings it took to split the necks on this batch, none yet. BTW they are Blazer, FN, and Win. Also, I do not push the pressures.

Thinking about maybe one more loading and starting a new batch on their trip to 6 loadings. And sending this batch to recycler.

Thoughts from you all?

 

[DMW1116]

I have a few marked that I’ve reloaded and some are going into their 4th or 5th round. I don’t really even sort them by # of loadings any more.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I’m on my own similar test for both 9mm & 45acp using Winchester cases only. Been at it for several months and probably half dozen loadings.

No noticeable changes of any type at all. No shortening, no loosing primer pockets, no tightening primer pockets, nothing, nada. Sure, something will happen some day but I’ll bet they don’t split first.

This article pertains to 45acp but I’ll wager a similar test of 9mm will explode a bunch of conventional wisdom as well—

How many times can I reload 45 ACP brass? – Florida Reloading

www.floridareloading.com

 

[LiveLife]

OK. Many guys ask how many reloads can I get out of say 9MM cases?

This article pertains to 45acp but I’ll wager a similar test of 9mm will explode a bunch of conventional wisdom as well—

How many times can I reload 45 ACP brass? – Florida Reloading

www.floridareloading.com

I read that article and agree with much of similar findings.

About ten years ago, I ran similar test with a small batch of mixed headstamp range brass 9mm to see how many times I could reload them. I used Lone Wolf 40-9mm conversion barrel in Gen3 Glock 22.

What I found was after 20-30 reloadings, primer pockets started to get loose for some brass and then I realized since I used mixed range brass, some of them could have been reloaded multiple times already. So as many in the THR peanut gallery often point out, my testing methodology was faulty and I should have used new brass to better control my variables. BTW, I did have a few cases that split at the neck.

So if you are reloading with mixed range brass (I was using my 9mm reference load of 115 gr FMJ/RN with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.130"-1.135" OAL), anticipate around 20-30 reloadings before primer pockets get loose +/- 10 or so reloadings depending on whether the range brass is once-fired or fired multiple times.

And FYI, you can use Metric sized primers with slightly larger primer cups like Fiocchi to extend the service life of range brass with enlarged primer pockets.

 

[2ndtimer]

As plentiful as 9mm brass is at my cub’s range, how many times can one be loaded never enters the picture. Also, I am not sure how relevant it is, considering the disparity of loading practices. So many load on the “mild side” target loads versus the “wild side”, 9mm +P+ or major. A slightly more interesting question to me is how many load mixed headstamps versus sorting by headstamps? For consistent accuracy (and safety) it is recommended and definitely for precision rifle, but at practical handgun ranges does it really matter? FWIW, I actually do sort my 9mm brass by manufacturer, but wonder if it is worth the time and effort?

 

[Charlie98]

In 30+ years of reloading handgun brass, I've had very few case mouth cracks, but I've had a bunch of body cracks... both in revolver brass, and semi-auto brass.

I've had some brass crack on... no kidding... the 2nd firing (light .38SPC loads, not heavy.) I put this down to too hard brass from the manufacturer.

I've had some brass split from abuse (my early .41MAG brass, which I punished,) but after a fair amount of cycles... 10 or more.

I've got brass that is 30 years old, that I bought as new component brass, including much of my .41MAG and .45ACP brass. The .45 brass is just now turning the corner... where I'm starting to see case splits... but not case mouth splits. The .41MAG brass is still going strong, some of which has seen 15 or more loadings, and some of those at Magnum levels.

I do not segregate my brass by number of loadings, it all goes in the same box, and I just dump some out when I load... it would be too tedious to do otherwise. When it gets to a point where I'm starting to see significant failures.... like with my Midway .45ACP brass now... I scrap the entire lot and start with new. I did that with my original stash of .41MAG brass many years ago, and bought the 1000cs box I'm still using today.

 

[EricBu]

OK. Many guys ask how many reloads can I get out of say 9MM cases? So now I am.

The stock answer is until the neck splits or I lose them in the grass.

I have an experiment going on that theory. I have a few thousand that are on their fifth cycle and have not had split necks or been lost....yet.

Now, in addition to five timers I have a bucket load of "once fired" that may or not be once fired since they are range pick up.

My plan was to find out how many firings it took to split the necks on this batch, none yet. BTW they are Blazer, FN, and Win. Also, I do not push the pressures.

Thinking about maybe one more loading and starting a new batch on their trip to 6 loadings. And sending this batch to recycler.

Thoughts from you all?

You left off part of the stock answer: Until they split, the primer pocket stretches, or I lose them.

Some brass dies from splits, some dies from stretched pockets. Your test is, quite frankly, nothing. You aren't even close to what some folks get to. Won't be valid until you get up too 10 or 15 loadings and are gauging the pockets and inspecting for stress cracks or head separation. Really, as far as 9mm goes......since it's so cheap, plentiful, and easy to find. After 5 loadings....just leave it at the range, lol. Then you can pretend your next batch of range pickup is once fired, and not the brass everybody else loaded 5 times

 

[gifbohane]

115 gr FMJ/RN with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.130"-1.135" OAL

My main concern while doing this experiment is that I do not want to damage the firearm in the process. I usually use 115gr FMJ/RN with 4.4 grains of HP 38 at 1.115 to 1.120. guess I am looking for some signals before the split and the pockets.

 

[EricBu]

My main concern while doing this experiment is that I do not want to damage the firearm in the process. I usually use 115gr FMJ/RN with 4.4 grains of HP 38 at 1.115 to 1.120. guess I am looking for some signals before the split and the pockets.

use a pocket go/no go gauge....the pockets will get loose before anything else obvious. Then there are tons of threads on brass wear and tear on here. But for 9mm, it isn't worth the time...load 5 and throw away if you're concerned.....or load until it's cracked and hope you catch it. Really the only two choices. Not like it's .204, or 454 Cassul, or something hard to find and expensive...where you'll inspect each piece carefully and use as much as you possibly can before retiring it.

 

[eddiememphis]

I have 500 new RMR branded 9mm cases I am going to prime... someday.

This is an interesting experiment. I may try to keep track of some and see how long they can go.

The problem with that is all the different powders and bullets I load, it would me meaningless.

If I had one recipe then it would make more sense.

 

[EricBu]

I have 500 new RMR branded 9mm cases I am going to prime... someday.

This is an interesting experiment. I may try to keep track of some and see how long they can go.

The problem with that is all the different powders and bullets I load, it would me meaningless.

If I had one recipe then it would make more sense.

Well, a lot of us when we buy a batch of new brass...we try and keep that together. Can be a pain at a public range...

 

[Kp321]

I have been loading 45 ACP and 9mm since the early 70’s and can’t remember having to toss any brass due to cracks or loose primer pockets. I have always used mild loads which helps. Apparently age doesn’t make any difference. Every once in a while I run across some “9mm 44” headstamped brass that has been in my inventory since the 60’s. I bought several hundred rounds of the alleged CIA ammo before I started loading 9’s and the brass still shows up in my stash occasionally.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I’m on my own similar test for both 9mm & 45acp using Winchester cases only. Been at it for several months and probably half dozen loadings.

No noticeable changes of any type at all. No shortening, no loosing primer pockets, no tightening primer pockets, nothing, nada. Sure, something will happen some day but I’ll bet they don’t split first.

Yup, me too.

I read that article and agree with much of similar findings.

About ten years ago, I ran similar test with a small batch of mixed headstamp range brass 9mm to see how many times I could reload them. I used Lone Wolf 40-9mm conversion barrel in Gen3 Glock 22.

What I found was after 20-30 reloadings, primer pockets started to get loose for some brass and then I realized since I used mixed range brass, some of them could have been reloaded multiple times already. So as many in the THR peanut gallery often point out, my testing methodology was faulty and I should have used new brass to better control my variables. BTW, I did have a few cases that split at the neck.

So if you are reloading with mixed range brass (I was using my 9mm reference load of 115 gr FMJ/RN with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.130"-1.135" OAL), anticipate around 20-30 reloadings before primer pockets get loose +/- 10 or so reloadings depending on whether the range brass is once-fired or fired multiple times.

And FYI, you can use Metric sized primers with slightly larger primer cups like Fiocchi to extend the service life of range brass with enlarged primer pockets.

I agree with everything you said. I also have been loading the same brass in 9mm for the last 10 years and the only split cases I have found is from someone else's barrel mixed in with my range pick ups.

I don't find them in my own fired brass, I am shooting Walthers and they have stepped chambers so before anyone says "How do you Know", that's how I know.
Stepped chambers leave a ring around the case, about below where the bullet seats. That's where they seal in the chamber when fired.

I'm the only one that I know that shoots Walthers at the indoor range I shoot at.

Walther's have that tell tale indicator that tells me which case was shot from my gun and which was shot from the oversized chamber that split the brass, in the lane next to me.
The split cases I find don't have the Walther ring on them.


Cases shot out of Walther chambers are pretty distinct. H&K uses stepped chambers in some of their pistols also.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yup, me too.



I agree with everything you said. I also have been loading the same brass in 9mm for the last 10 years and the only split cases I have found is from someone else's barrel mixed in with my range pick ups.

I don't find them in my own fired brass, I am shooting Walthers and they have stepped chambers so before anyone says "How do you Know", that's how I know.
Stepped chambers leave a ring around the case, about below where the bullet seats. That's where they seal in the chamber when fired.

I'm the only one that I know that shoots Walthers at the indoor range I shoot at.

Walther's have that tell tale indicator that tells me which case was shot from my gun and which was shot from the oversized chamber that split the brass, in the lane next to me.
The split cases I find don't have the Walther ring on them.

View attachment 1178638
Cases shot out of Walther chambers are pretty distinct. H&K uses stepped chambers in some of their pistols also.

Learn something new everyday

 

[hdwhit]

For the most part, I lose 9mm "to the weeds" long before the case splits.

But among cases that I fire across the berm of my dam, the bulk of which I can readily recover, I stop after 5 loadings.

I arrived at this because 1) all of my brass is 'previously fired' so I don't know how often it may have been reloaded before it reached me, 2) after 5 loadings, even the most dis-reputable looking brass was still serviceable, 3) I don't want to take the chance of getting the nickname "one eye".

When dealing with such common brass as 9mm, I always suggest an abundance of caution.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have been loading 45 ACP and 9mm since the early 70’s and can’t remember having to toss any brass due to cracks or loose primer pockets. I have always used mild loads which helps. Apparently age doesn’t make any difference. Every once in a while I run across some “9mm 44” headstamped brass that has been in my inventory since the 60’s. I bought several hundred rounds of the alleged CIA ammo before I started loading 9’s and the brass still shows up in my stash occasionally.

I have several nickel plated .38 cases that are now brass colored from so many reloadings. If you don’t lose them, or abuse them, brass handgun cases are remarkably resilient.

In 30+ years of reloading handgun brass, I've had very few case mouth cracks, but I've had a bunch of body cracks... both in revolver brass, and semi-auto brass.

I've had some brass crack on... no kidding... the 2nd firing (light .38SPC loads, not heavy.) I put this down to too hard brass from the manufacturer.

I've had some brass split from abuse (my early .41MAG brass, which I punished,) but after a fair amount of cycles... 10 or more.

I've got brass that is 30 years old, that I bought as new component brass, including much of my .41MAG and .45ACP brass. The .45 brass is just now turning the corner... where I'm starting to see case splits... but not case mouth splits. The .41MAG brass is still going strong, some of which has seen 15 or more loadings, and some of those at Magnum levels.

I do not segregate my brass by number of loadings, it all goes in the same box, and I just dump some out when I load... it would be too tedious to do otherwise. When it gets to a point where I'm starting to see significant failures.... like with my Midway .45ACP brass now... I scrap the entire lot and start with new. I did that with my original stash of .41MAG brass many years ago, and bought the 1000cs box I'm still using today.

Same. My revolver brass gets processed and primed, then stored in plastic Folgers coffee canisters until it’s time to reload a batch.

Yup, me too.



I agree with everything you said. I also have been loading the same brass in 9mm for the last 10 years and the only split cases I have found is from someone else's barrel mixed in with my range pick ups.

I don't find them in my own fired brass, I am shooting Walthers and they have stepped chambers so before anyone says "How do you Know", that's how I know.
Stepped chambers leave a ring around the case, about below where the bullet seats. That's where they seal in the chamber when fired.

I'm the only one that I know that shoots Walthers at the indoor range I shoot at.

Walther's have that tell tale indicator that tells me which case was shot from my gun and which was shot from the oversized chamber that split the brass, in the lane next to me.
The split cases I find don't have the Walther ring on them.

View attachment 1178638
Cases shot out of Walther chambers are pretty distinct. H&K uses stepped chambers in some of their pistols also.

Sort of reminds me of the thousands of rounds I fired through Mp5/Mp5k sub guns over the decades, except those chambers were fluted lengthwise and left soot and little ridges running like stripes rather than ringing the brass from a stepped chamber.




Stay safe.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I have several nickel plated .38 cases that are now brass colored from so many reloadings. If you don’t lose them, or abuse them, brass handgun cases are remarkably resilient.


Same. My revolver brass gets processed and primed, then stored in plastic Folgers coffee canisters until it’s time to reload a batch.

View attachment 1178763




Sort of reminds me of the thousands of rounds I fired through Mp5/Mp5k sub guns over the decades, except those chambers were fluted lengthwise and left soot and little ridges running like stripes rather than ringing the brass from a stepped chamber.

View attachment 1178764


Stay safe.

I never understood the fluted chamber thing. I still find one mixed in with my pickups once in a while. They were always a mess to look at. I'll bet the chambers were a heck of a mess to clean out. I always throw them away because when processing them I could never get all the flutes ironed back out of them.
I pretty much trashed that brass. I was always afraid that the flutes changed the internal volume too much for my liking.

I like all those shiny .357mag cases, mine has all the nickel worn of them. They don't look so nice but they still load ok. As long as the primer pockets hold out I'll keep loading them.

 

[Charlie98]

thousands of rounds I fired through Mp5/Mp5k sub guns over the decades

Well.... color me jealous.

 

[jmorris]

I have fired 45 ACP cases that have been reloaded so many times there is no readable head stamp.

That has often made me wonder how many times they have been reloaded. It’s not uncommon for me to come across brass that’s been in use for 50+ years, at matches.

 

[Thomasss]

To answer your question it really depends on how hot you load them. If you max out your loads they do not last as long.
I generally find the pockets will loosen up and then I scrap 'em. I generally shoot lipstick bullets and taper crimp which
may account for the lack of mouth cracks.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I never understood the fluted chamber thing.

The last official thing I read was that they were to assist in ejection when the pistols got dirty. The reason I use the disclaimer "official" is because I first read about the fluted chambers when researching the H&K 91nbattle rifle, where the tester....a writer for Gun & Ammo...claimed that they were to retard ejection on the roller-delayed blowback actions. Bear in mind that H&K used the fluted chambers in non-roller delayed actions...so that ads weight to the factory claims.

There was a test decades ago, I believe by Massad Ayoob, He was shooting a P7 to 10k rounds. I believe the extractor broke at 6800 and the P7 continued to function to 10k (it might have been 100k, that that seems pretty uncreditable). The fluted chamber is said to be what allowed the P7 to continue to eject fired cases. {Just a word to the wise: don't let the slide close on a P7 which has had a lot of rounds fired through it. The gas chamber under the barrel will foul enough to not allow easy opening of the slide. The pistol will function in this state, but manually opening the slide is a different matter}

 

[Bazoo]

I did a test on 30-30 a while back, where I loaded one case until failure. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/30-30-case-life-test.896133/ in that test I got 22 loadings until the shoulder split. Full pressure 9mm runs at 35,000 psi and 30-30 at 42,000psi. In my test, I didn't run all my loads at full pressure, and I was moving the shoulder back considerably. While it isn't a direct correlation, you might find it useful.

 

[reddog81]

I reload for a S&W 929 revolver and keep track of the number of reloads on the brass. All other 9mm brass just gets reloaded without keeping track. With the 929’s first batch of 160 pieces of brass the reloads made it through 14 reloads before any split. I kept going until 25 reloads before I decided to retire that batch. At that point maybe 10 pieces out of 160 had split. The second batch is at a dozen or so reloads with no splits. The second batch will probably last longer as I haven’t experimented as much with it.

At this point I have a few pieces of regular 9mm brass that crack every year from use in semi-autos. I would assume most of that brass is at least 15 to 20 reloads or more. I have a feeling brass life will be highly variable based upon dies used, the gun/ chamber the brass is fired in and how hot the loads are. I’m sure 30+ reloads would be easy if extending bras life was a priority.

 

[FROGO207]

First I have multiple buckets of 9MM range brass here as a reserve. I process two batches of 300 mixed range brass alternating loadings on them as they are easier to clean than other random dirty range brass. The last time I reloaded a batch it had 23 reloads on all of them. No splits or loose pockets yet. Not using max loads and only testing for plunk, it plunks it gets sent. That said you can safely double your number as long as nothing starts to show I would think and still be quite safe.

 

[LiveLife]

No splits or loose pockets yet. Not using max loads

I think that's the key reloading variable to brass longevity. Lower pressure loads, less brass expansion during firing and less work hardening during resizing. And of course, less hammering of rim against breech wall face and slower enlarging of primer pocket.