Question for the 1911 crowd.

[Just One Shot]

I found a new Howa Citadel 1911 on clearance for $509.00 with 2 mags. (They also have a compact with the 3 1/2" barrel that is $549.00 which isn't a clearance price.)

It has some nice features such as beveled mag well, flared ejection port, skeletonized trigger and hammer and Novak sights.

One thing I noticed was that there is a visible gap at the top of the trigger that seems to be about .010 - .015", it's enough that you can see daylight when holding the gun sideways. Is this normal?

It seems to lock up well and the fit of the slide to the frame is nice and tight. The trigger felt to be around 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 lbs. and is nice and crisp (yes I dry fired it without snap caps).

I have heard that this is the same platform that Charles Daly either uses or use to use for his starting point. I know they are made in the Philipines and have heard good things on the Armscor brand that is made there.

I don't have enough to get a Kimber or a Springfield. This will be my first 1911 and I know the model is extremely reliable and durable so what are your opinions on this brand?

 

[Just One Shot]

WOW!

Really, there are no 1911 guys here?

 

[CWL]

I'm not familiar with the pistol but I wouldn't be concerned if the trigger is fitted so that there is a gap between trigger and slide.

Not all triggers are "drop in" and they sometimes need to be hand-fit by removing some of the metal. If you remove too much, there will be a gap. In your case, that gap is so small that it shouldn't impair functionality in any way.

If you really don't like this, you can always replace the trigger, but the pistol itself seems like a good deal.

 

[WoofersInc]

The Citadel is a Armscor gun from the Phillipines's. Actually I would recommend you check out the Rock Island guns also from Armscor. They can be found online for a little less money than what you quoted. Check with Sarco or Centerfire. They usually have them in stock. Rock Island also has outstanding customer service from all reports I have read.

 

[mljdeckard]

Me too. I didn't respond because I know nothing about Howa's 1911s. I second the above, why not look for an RIA?

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

You mean a gap like this?

My Baer and my Kimber both have a gap below and above the trigger, and they both run like tops. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[Jim Watson]

One thing I noticed was that there is a visible gap at the top of the trigger that seems to be about .010 - .015", it's enough that you can see daylight when holding the gun sideways. Is this normal?

It seems pretty common on the Philippine guns. I don't know if it is a sloppy fit or if it is due to dimensional drift in a reverse engineered gun. It will shoot.

 

[Just One Shot]

WoofersInc The Citadel is a Armscor gun from the Phillipines's. Actually I would recommend you check out the Rock Island guns also from Armscor. They can be found online for a little less money than what you quoted. Check with Sarco or Centerfire. They usually have them in stock. Rock Island also has outstanding customer service from all reports I have read.

I looked at Sarco and the tactical which has the same features listed as the Citadel and it is going for $449.99 + $15.00 shipping and I would have a transfer fee that makes it just as expensive when it's all said and done.

The same store that has this one use to sell the Rock Island models and the ones I saw didn't have as good a finish as the Citadel.

 

[Rex B]

Lots of good guns coming out of the Phillipins - RIA, American Classic, FireStorm, citadel, even High Standard.

Most sell for under $500 at retail (Cabelas).

Of the above, my preference is High Standard, mostly because the slide markings are the most discreet, and most like a military 1911

There's just something about a foreign gun marked "American Classic"

Oh, and that trigger gap is a non-issue, as others have said.

 

[bdb benzino]

When they call it the American Classic, I believe that they are saying that the 1911 model is just that.....an american classic!!! I have to agree, and I also have one and it is a flawless pistol.
BTW I have a Armscore made pistol like the Citadel and it is awsome as the Citadel should be.

 

[wditto]

great guns, but you still will save about 40-50 bucks just in taxes with an RIA......why not.
but as you say, the finish is nicer, so there's that......

 

[Quack]

you can save some $ and get a Rock Island, or spend a little more and get a STI Spartan.

 

[redactor]

As others have said, the major components are made by Armscor in the Phillipines. They make a LOT of frames and slides that are being imported into the country and assembled by various companies from Rock Island to STI. I have one assembled by High Standard, and while it isn't the quality of a Springfield or Kimber, it works. Ultimately, the quality will be determined by the company that put it together.

I haven't heard of Howa making these before. If you buy it, let us know how it works out, but for that price you may want to look at a Taurus. For $300, Clark Custom in Louisiana will sell you a top-end kit in .460 Rowland. They specifically say that the Taurus is recommended for this conversion, and that Phillipine guns are not. That seems to indicate that the Taurus guns are made of better quality steel.

 

[HardShell]

... I didn't respond because I know nothing about Howa's 1911s...

Same here.

I have a dozen 1911s and have owned Howa rifles, but this thread is the very first I have ever heard of a Howa 1911...

 

[KyJim]

For $300, Clark Custom in Louisiana will sell you a top-end kit in .460 Rowland. They specifically say that the Taurus is recommended for this conversion, and that Phillipine guns are not. That seems to indicate that the Taurus guns are made of better quality steel.

Taurus 1911s have hammer forged slides, frames, and barrels. The Armscor guns have cast frames, forged barrels, and slides made from extruded steel. As I understand it, extruded steel is a type of forged metal.

Quality cast frames are fine for .45 acp 1911s. Maybe the .460 Rowland adds extra stress.