Question For Those Who Own Both. Walther P99/S&W M&P 9
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I hope you don't mind my answering, because I do not own both. I have a friend with a P99 and I have the M&P9. I find that the recoil of the P99 (at least in MY hand) is much sharper than a 9 ought to be. More like a .40cal to me. Whereas the M&P9's recoil is actually less than most 9's i've shot. It's a very easy shooter.
If I had the choice, and both guns were the same price, I'd take the M&P in a heartbeat. It fits my hand better, recoil is lower, ergos are better for me, and I just like it more.
If I had the choice, and both guns were the same price, I'd take the M&P in a heartbeat. It fits my hand better, recoil is lower, ergos are better for me, and I just like it more.
The Lone Haranguer
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I own a M&P compact, have shot a full-size M&P as a rental and have shot a P99 (A/S trigger system) belonging to someone else. The P99 has too many "funky" trigger modes - and when used as a DA/SA the DA trigger pull is extremely long - the decocker button on the slide is counterintuitive compared to the easy operation of the decocking lever on my CZ PCR, and it handled or shot no better than my M&P. I was underwhelmed.
OH25shooter
Member
I don't own both, but I'm struggling whether is sell my P99, 9mm. The problem is it is just so accurate and reliable, I'd probably kick myself (like I have in the past) if I sell it. Granted it has a long trigger pull, and lots of as someone posted, "funky" trigger modes, but it is a solid made auto loader. I've never fired the M&P, but it seems to be a hot seller for S&W. The ones I've handled were a nice fit for me, but so is the P99. Oh, one final comment. I also agree the 9mm, P99 does have a snappy recoil compared to my other 9mm's.
FieroCDSP
Member
The grips are very different. Both the M&P and the Walther are comfortable, but you're talking about grippy rubber grip on the M&P vs the hard plastic grip on the P99. That might be a bit of the problem with the snappy recoil.
The P99 has some nice design implementations, and I dont know of anyone who has said they didn't like the gun. If the QA doesn't suit you, try the AS model. One or the other can easily find it's way into your stable.
The M&P is much more simplistic in design, easy to fix, and less expensive. Smith's warranty is the best in the business. I've heard people say they didn't like them, but sometimes thats a matter of the person being a custom 1911 junkie or getting the occasional bad one. I know several people that have picked one up and never looked back. Dan Burwell is the man to talk to for all smithing M&P. The guy does great work.
The problems with the full-size 9 and 40 models have been fixed. Most of the problem guns have already cycled out of supplies in gun shops. There are still occasional issues with the compact versions, but those are almost enthusiasticly addressed by Smith's service center.
The 45's still have teething trouble, from the word at the M&P forum. Newest model, new issues. They'll be fixed quickly.
Both are great guns, but if you're looking for a target-quality full-size, the M&P9 with the 5" barrel is the way to go.
The P99 has some nice design implementations, and I dont know of anyone who has said they didn't like the gun. If the QA doesn't suit you, try the AS model. One or the other can easily find it's way into your stable.
The M&P is much more simplistic in design, easy to fix, and less expensive. Smith's warranty is the best in the business. I've heard people say they didn't like them, but sometimes thats a matter of the person being a custom 1911 junkie or getting the occasional bad one. I know several people that have picked one up and never looked back. Dan Burwell is the man to talk to for all smithing M&P. The guy does great work.
The problems with the full-size 9 and 40 models have been fixed. Most of the problem guns have already cycled out of supplies in gun shops. There are still occasional issues with the compact versions, but those are almost enthusiasticly addressed by Smith's service center.
The 45's still have teething trouble, from the word at the M&P forum. Newest model, new issues. They'll be fixed quickly.
Both are great guns, but if you're looking for a target-quality full-size, the M&P9 with the 5" barrel is the way to go.
Although the ergonomics on my P99 were very nice, the recoil management wasn't. I found it very "snappy" compared to my other pistols. The placement of the magazine release didn't bother.
I used to have a P99 and a P99C. Now I have an M&P 9 and an M&P 9C. I suppose that answers the original question.
Jim
I used to have a P99 and a P99C. Now I have an M&P 9 and an M&P 9C. I suppose that answers the original question.
Jim
MarcusWendt
Member
I currently own both. Your question is a tough one. Basically I'll echo what most have said here. Mine are in .40 S&W and like others have stated, the P99 has the most kick of ANY .40 S&W I own, the M&P the least. Almost all my handguns are .40 S&W.
I agree the P99 has a some unusually features like the decocker and the long take up on the A/S trigger. Mag release is by far the most unusual aspect of the P99.
That having been said, I love them both. The M&P is fabulous though I did experience the mag drop issue some have had with early builds. S&W took care of me quickly and professionally. I was very pleased.
The P99 has an almost intangible cool factor to it. I'm not sure how to articulate it.
I think given the givens, I would have to ditch the M&P only because I know I could pick one up later if I had sellers remorse. The P99 was a little tougher for me to acquire and took some times.
I'd hate to give up either one actually.
Are you looking to limit yourself to one gun, a carry gun, save some money? It might be easier to answer if we knew your circumstances.
PS, I think S&W does the P99 warranty work so I think that's a wash.
I agree the P99 has a some unusually features like the decocker and the long take up on the A/S trigger. Mag release is by far the most unusual aspect of the P99.
That having been said, I love them both. The M&P is fabulous though I did experience the mag drop issue some have had with early builds. S&W took care of me quickly and professionally. I was very pleased.
The P99 has an almost intangible cool factor to it. I'm not sure how to articulate it.
I think given the givens, I would have to ditch the M&P only because I know I could pick one up later if I had sellers remorse. The P99 was a little tougher for me to acquire and took some times.
I'd hate to give up either one actually.
Are you looking to limit yourself to one gun, a carry gun, save some money? It might be easier to answer if we knew your circumstances.
PS, I think S&W does the P99 warranty work so I think that's a wash.
fastbolt
Member
Kind of subjective.
Both are good examples of newer model designs from a couple of the major manufacturers.
While I don't own the Walther P99, I own a couple of the licensed S&W SW99 traditional double action models (think Anti-Stress) chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W, and I carried a similar standard SW99 .40 S&W for a few years as an issued weapon. I also own a relatively new M&P 45 (Earth Brown w/thumb safeties).
I've been through 3 armorer classes for the SW99/P99 and an armorer class for the M&P Pistol, so I have kind of a basic familiarity with both designs.
I like both designs.
I do have a personal preference for traditional double action pistols (DA/SA, if you'd prefer), and the 99 series has a pretty decent one. I don't care for the QA (Quick Action) myself, but again, that's strictly a personal opinion.
I found the M&P's unique trigger design to be fairly easy to adapt to, although the trigger in the .45 model is heavier than the standard one in the 9/.40 models (7.5lb +/- 2lbs for the .45 models, I'm told, versus 6.5lbs +/- 2lbs on the others), and mine is on the heavy end of the range. The inherent practical accuracy makes up for the heavy trigger, though. Very surprising inherent accuracy.
While I won't be getting rid of my SW99's in the foreseeable future, and I really enjoy shooting my 9mm compact model, I won't be adding any more of them to my working collection, either.
The factory warranty for commercial pistols is one year from Walther for the 99's, while the M&P's have S&W's respected Lifetime Service Policy http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=24817§ionId=10504
Several design features of the M&P are interesting.
Enhanced frame strength (w/steel sub-chassis)
Frame rails are easily replaced if damaged (without frame replacement)
Heavy slide dust cover to resist damage if dropped
Beavertail grip frame to reduce potential for slide bite
Grip inserts include palm swells as well as back strap differences
Ambidextrous slide stop lever
Reversible magazine catch button
Large, robust extractor
Stainless steel recoil guide rod assembly
Beveled barrel hood
Through-hardened stainless steel barrel & slide (no zone tempering)
As an armorer I don't mind supporting either design, and each has its own advantages/disadvantages ...
99 series parts come from Germany. Sometimes when I've called for parts I've had to wait because they were on back order from Germany.
The 99 series sear housing blocks are a bit complicated and expensive. The ejector is molded into the housing block, so if an ejector breaks you have to replace the whole housing block. The ejector can easily be replaced as a separate part in the M&P.
The standard plastic rear sight bases on the 99's are only held in the slide by a plunger which is held in place by one side of the windage adjustment screw. The top 'prongs' of the plunger can be broken with less of an impact than some folks might expect, and this can result in the rear sight base shifting.
The slide's plastic rear end cap is somewhat thin on the 99, while the one of the M&P is thicker.
I do like the 99's striker safety block. Unique design. Easy to remove & replace (as long as the armorer doesn't reverse it ). I also like their striker return spring idea (which is also used in the M&P).
The striker spring used in the QA is heavier than the one used in the AS. No big deal, but you don't want to mix them up if you have both models in use, since putting the one used in the AS gun in a QA gun may result in light strikes. You don't want to mix up the trigger bar guides between the models, either.
The extractor is a drop-in part on the 99, and it's easier to remove & install. It's a fitted part in the M&P and the solid extractor pin is not easy to remove ... although the .45 models use a roll-pin (part of the military spec submission when the .45 model was being developed for the anticipated military trials). The M&P extractor, on the other hand, is very large and robust (we were told it was intentionally designed to help resist hook damage in the event of a case failure-to-extract where the user might have to try to re-engage the case rim).
Removing the locking block to repair a damaged/worn slide stop lever spring in the 99 series is not an easy task because of the nature of the rolled steel pin used and its very tight fit in the locking block. I've heard of LE 99 series armorers who won't attempt to remove and replace the locking block pin in the 99 series, but return the guns to the factory if a repair requires removal of the locking block (I've removed & replaced a number of them, even outside of the classes, FWIW). Rolling over the edge of the pin by improper removal/installation of the pin can potentially cause damage to the frame, too, such as wallowing out the frame hole.
Sorry. That's probably more stuff than you wanted to know, so I'll stop rambling.
Bottom line? Both are good quality pistols. I suspect that commercial owners and users of either would be well served with either choice.
Like I said, I'll be keeping my SW99 models. I've had to replace a couple of parts, but they've given me excellent service after doing so. I have a friend who has fired more than 50K rounds through each of a pair of SW99s chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W. I finally had to replace a sear housing block in one of them (broken ejector) at about the 50K mark (covered as a warranty parts replacement by S&W, too. ).
I don't worry overly much about the occasional refinements and revisions to a new model line ... but I also try to wait at least a year after a model has been introduced before I spend my own money on an example, too. Glock is still making revisions, refinements and upgrades to their model line, you know. No big deal ...
I do think S&W has a winner on its hands with the M&P.
Just my thoughts ...
Both are good examples of newer model designs from a couple of the major manufacturers.
While I don't own the Walther P99, I own a couple of the licensed S&W SW99 traditional double action models (think Anti-Stress) chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W, and I carried a similar standard SW99 .40 S&W for a few years as an issued weapon. I also own a relatively new M&P 45 (Earth Brown w/thumb safeties).
I've been through 3 armorer classes for the SW99/P99 and an armorer class for the M&P Pistol, so I have kind of a basic familiarity with both designs.
I like both designs.
I do have a personal preference for traditional double action pistols (DA/SA, if you'd prefer), and the 99 series has a pretty decent one. I don't care for the QA (Quick Action) myself, but again, that's strictly a personal opinion.
I found the M&P's unique trigger design to be fairly easy to adapt to, although the trigger in the .45 model is heavier than the standard one in the 9/.40 models (7.5lb +/- 2lbs for the .45 models, I'm told, versus 6.5lbs +/- 2lbs on the others), and mine is on the heavy end of the range. The inherent practical accuracy makes up for the heavy trigger, though. Very surprising inherent accuracy.
While I won't be getting rid of my SW99's in the foreseeable future, and I really enjoy shooting my 9mm compact model, I won't be adding any more of them to my working collection, either.
The factory warranty for commercial pistols is one year from Walther for the 99's, while the M&P's have S&W's respected Lifetime Service Policy http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=24817§ionId=10504
Several design features of the M&P are interesting.
Enhanced frame strength (w/steel sub-chassis)
Frame rails are easily replaced if damaged (without frame replacement)
Heavy slide dust cover to resist damage if dropped
Beavertail grip frame to reduce potential for slide bite
Grip inserts include palm swells as well as back strap differences
Ambidextrous slide stop lever
Reversible magazine catch button
Large, robust extractor
Stainless steel recoil guide rod assembly
Beveled barrel hood
Through-hardened stainless steel barrel & slide (no zone tempering)
As an armorer I don't mind supporting either design, and each has its own advantages/disadvantages ...
99 series parts come from Germany. Sometimes when I've called for parts I've had to wait because they were on back order from Germany.
The 99 series sear housing blocks are a bit complicated and expensive. The ejector is molded into the housing block, so if an ejector breaks you have to replace the whole housing block. The ejector can easily be replaced as a separate part in the M&P.
The standard plastic rear sight bases on the 99's are only held in the slide by a plunger which is held in place by one side of the windage adjustment screw. The top 'prongs' of the plunger can be broken with less of an impact than some folks might expect, and this can result in the rear sight base shifting.
The slide's plastic rear end cap is somewhat thin on the 99, while the one of the M&P is thicker.
I do like the 99's striker safety block. Unique design. Easy to remove & replace (as long as the armorer doesn't reverse it
). I also like their striker return spring idea (which is also used in the M&P).The striker spring used in the QA is heavier than the one used in the AS. No big deal, but you don't want to mix them up if you have both models in use, since putting the one used in the AS gun in a QA gun may result in light strikes. You don't want to mix up the trigger bar guides between the models, either.
The extractor is a drop-in part on the 99, and it's easier to remove & install. It's a fitted part in the M&P and the solid extractor pin is not easy to remove ... although the .45 models use a roll-pin (part of the military spec submission when the .45 model was being developed for the anticipated military trials). The M&P extractor, on the other hand, is very large and robust (we were told it was intentionally designed to help resist hook damage in the event of a case failure-to-extract where the user might have to try to re-engage the case rim).
Removing the locking block to repair a damaged/worn slide stop lever spring in the 99 series is not an easy task because of the nature of the rolled steel pin used and its very tight fit in the locking block. I've heard of LE 99 series armorers who won't attempt to remove and replace the locking block pin in the 99 series, but return the guns to the factory if a repair requires removal of the locking block (I've removed & replaced a number of them, even outside of the classes, FWIW). Rolling over the edge of the pin by improper removal/installation of the pin can potentially cause damage to the frame, too, such as wallowing out the frame hole.
Sorry. That's probably more stuff than you wanted to know, so I'll stop rambling.
Bottom line? Both are good quality pistols. I suspect that commercial owners and users of either would be well served with either choice.
Like I said, I'll be keeping my SW99 models. I've had to replace a couple of parts, but they've given me excellent service after doing so. I have a friend who has fired more than 50K rounds through each of a pair of SW99s chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W. I finally had to replace a sear housing block in one of them (broken ejector) at about the 50K mark (covered as a warranty parts replacement by S&W, too.
).I don't worry overly much about the occasional refinements and revisions to a new model line ... but I also try to wait at least a year after a model has been introduced before I spend my own money on an example, too.
Glock is still making revisions, refinements and upgrades to their model line, you know. No big deal ...I do think S&W has a winner on its hands with the M&P.
Just my thoughts ...
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If I could only keep one, I would keep the Walther...but only because I collect the "name". If it were between the SW99 and M&P9, I would definitely keep the M&P. I have just never held another pistol that is as comfortable to shoot as the M&P, plus it's a good carry size.
Now, anyone wanting to let their Walther go, feel free to post a pic and price!!!!
Now, anyone wanting to let their Walther go, feel free to post a pic and price!!!!
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