Question regarding more powerful loadings

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I think the OP has been reading the 45 Super threads....the 45 Super "looks" like a normal 45acp round (they are identical in appearance)...but it ends there.

45acp +P = 23,000 psi
45 Super = 28,000 psi

45 Super will push 185 grain bullets right at 1,400 fps, and 200 grain bullets at 1,200 fps, and 230 grain bullets at over 1,000 fps.

Most 45acp chambered pistol require some modification to stand extra abuse of the 45 Super.

I have a Springfield XD that I use for my 45 Super loads...
 
So when it says 'Start Charge', that means that it is a light-recoil and low velocity charge?
Ughh, it would be lighter recoil and lower velocity than max charge load that was "tested" to provide high enough pressure for reliable ignition and consistent chamber pressure for accuracy. But you also need to note the type of bullet profile used and the OAL length indicated for the start charge because how deep the bullet is seated directly affect chamber pressure (Example - For the same bullet, longer OAL will give you lower chamber pressure and lower velocity).

And when it says 'Maximum Charge' and has those higher velocity, then it means +P? Or is does +P negate velocity and means only high pressured??
More charge will result in higher velocity. The Maximum Charge (also known as DO NOT EXCEED CHARGE) with the indicated OAL for that particular type of bullet profile is CRITICAL because exceeding this charge/OAL will result in too much chamber pressure. Instead of pushing the bullet down the barrel, the higher pressure may cause the chamber/barrel to explode.

As to +P rating, someone else could probably do a better job of explaining. My limited take is that +P rating started with older 38 Special round that had an established "factory" pressure for the given strength of revolver frame (this did not mean the "factory" pressure exceeded the case pressure max rating). As some stronger revolver frame was introduced, ammunition manufacturer could increase the powder charge because the stronger frames were able to withstand the higher pressure - they called these rounds +P (and later +P+ for loads for even stronger frames).

Unlike older revolvers that had large differing frame strength and separate cylinder/barrel, modern semi auto pistols have integrated chamber and barrel, thus able to withstand higher chamber pressure. Although there was an established "standard" factory pressure rating of "P" for earlier 9mm pistols, heavier designed submachine guns like MP5 are able to withstand higher than standard pressure for 9mm - these rounds received the +P designation and were not meant to be fired in a pistol.

When newer 9mm pistols like Glocks came to market, they were designed and built to withstand the higher +P 9mm ammunition meant for submachine guns. If you look at older pistol manuals, they indicated whether they were rated to +P 9mm or not. Nowdays, most manufacturers build their pistols to +P pressures and the designation became less important as most factory JHPs like Golden Saber and Ranger SXT (Black Talon) are in +P pressure/velocity. This is the reason why you see +P 9mm ammunition and some reloaders loading past the Max Load Data (but the published load data must be SAFE for all 9mm pistols old and new and indicates lower charges).

As to reloading past the Max Load Data pressures, it is the general rule among the reloading community that Max Never Exceed charges/OAL are never exceeded because many of us have seen the results of exploding guns with injuries to shooters. Because pressure buildup and spiking occurs more readily past the max charge loads, as a rule, I use 10%-5% (for 115gr 9mm FMJ reloads, I go up to 3%) less max load data (lead bullets are always loaded to 10%-5% less max).

I hope this helps. Perhaps someone could explain the +P issue better.
 
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So when it says 'Start Charge', that means that it is a light-recoil and low velocity charge?

And when it says 'Maximum Charge' and has those higher velocity, then it means +P? Or is does +P negate velocity and means only high pressured??

Start charge may or may not be a low velocity load depending on the powder used. Most pistol loads in the 38 spcl/45acp pressure range will only see about 100 fps difference between a starting and max load. The pressures may vary quite a bit more then you would think though for that little bit of velocity.
+P means just that, +P!
Max loads are loads that develop SAAMI maximum pressures or as close to it as the lab could get without exceeding them using that set of components. +P is a load that exceeds the SAAMI or CIP pressure standards and is a higher level then some firearms are designed to handle. A 9mm SAAMI max pressure is 35,000 psi SAAMI all manufactures load to this level and reloading data considers this as max. +P 9mm pressure is 38,500psi.
 
Two things.

While I completely agree that the newer pressure measuring equipment is more accurate, the ballistic lab boys back even in the thirties were primarily concerned with SAFETY, SAFETY AND MORE SAFETY!

There are some pressure signs that an experienced reloader can (and should) look for. IMHO, case life with a partuicular load is one of the more reliable. Very large differences between chronographed velocity and "book" velocity is another.

Any maximum load, even a maximum from a "new" book, should be worked up to from below very carefully!

9MM.

American 9MM has been loaded WAY, WAY down from the factories from day one. (Didn't want Glisentis to blow up :D) The so-called "submachinegun" ammo brought back from WW2 was standard pressure European ammo with a harder thicker primer cup for use in fixed firing pin, open bolt submachineguns.

Our current +P is European "standard." Most guns today, even including American manufacture 9MMs are specifically designed for so-called +P.
The 9MM NATO, used by U.S. armed forces is European standard, or +P by American standards.

My first Beretta, and Glock 17 wouldn't function reliability with White Box or UMC, until after several hundred rounds of "break in." But they functioned flawlessly with departmental issue +P+.
 
Two things.
Very large differences between chronographed velocity and "book" velocity is another.

So another Question: Would pretty much all of the rounds we test and chrono ourselves reflect a lower velocity because shooting through our own chronographs (placed a little distance afar of the muzzle) don't necessarily reflect the muzzle measurements that the factories take and put in to their books??

But essentially the load is of the same velocities if we could chrono muzzle velocity, or if the factories chronoed velocity a few inches from the muzzle end of the barrel, right??
 
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There are too many variations to get exact matches. Barrel length, bore and groove diameter, ambient temperature, powder lot#, etc etc etc.

What I meant by large variations, is if several different manual show 950 to 1000 FPS, and my load cronos 1500 FPS, Big red flag there. OTOH, if my load makes 1050 to 1100, I may, or may not have an over pressure load. Need to look at other indicators.
 
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