Questionable Family Hunting Traditions?

[Mike1234567]

I live in a rural south Texas area. I was disappointed to see so few deer here because, usually, there are far more in areas like this. I've been here a little longer than three months and was hearing gun shots nearly every evening and early morning. Now I see no deer at all... and am not hearing much gunfire. Adding 2+2 I'm guessing people have hunted them into near non-existence. If so, I find it difficult to believe whoever these people are can eat that much. This leads me to suspect they're only kill for "fun" and leaving the carcasses to waste.

But... I'm just speculating.

ETA: Per post #49; Yeah, maybe the scumbags are selling the meat. Better than letting the carcasses rot but a darned lousy thing to do none-the-less.

 

[Mike1234567]

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it

Horse stealing, cattle resulting were/are hanging offenses - basically poaching of private property

Sorry folks, you can justify illegal actions in your minds, this is one I will stand by my view

oneounceload... You really believe what you just wrote???

 

[BambiB]

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it

Horse stealing, cattle resulting were/are hanging offenses - basically poaching of private property

Sorry folks, you can justify illegal actions in your minds, this is one I will stand by my view

Do you also stand by slavery?

Remember, it was once the law of the land that slavery was legal.

That's a rather extreme example, but how about the law in Nebraska that forbids driving a red vehicle? (Only emergency vehicles can be red. Last I checked, still on the books - but widely ignored because, like deer poaching laws, it makes no sense!) For stupid laws, California is probably king. There's a law on the books saying one is forbidden from having sex with a porcupine. (I think that's its own punishment.) Chico has a law that forbids the possession of nuclear weapons in town. There's a fine and everything.

Point is, lots of laws start out with good intentions, or are written by idiots. Only an idiot (or a communist) blindly follows the law. For some reason, legislatures tend to lag far behind events in updating laws so they make sense. Maybe it's because they're so much more eager to make NEW laws to complicate our lives.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello,

It was once tradition in my family to take a rifle to school and hunt your way home. This started way back, and the last person to do it, so far as I know, was my grandfather for food in the Great Depression. I do not know if there were seasons here in Indiana at that time, and I do not think folks who were hungry cared.

When great-Grandma would ask what the kids (Grandpa etc) wanted for supper and they asked for squirrel, she'd tell them to go get their rifles and they'd go back to the woodlot on the farm. (Most days they had wild game, milk and strawberries. They were lucky in that they weren't ever hungry. Grandpa would shove cardboard in his shoes so his sisters could have new shoes, but that's only money).

I only shoot out-of-season to protect land and property, and this is always reported to the DNR. It's not unusual for the farmers to have deer tags out-of-season either as they're protecting crops and tags are issued for this reason.

My personal thing is to use a primitive-type muzzleloader for deer during all firearms seasons (legal in Indiana). I've been thinking about getting decent with a recurve bow as I hate compound bows. We will see. I'm not a hardcore deer hunter; I just go out and pop one if I want venison, if deer are in season.

Regards,

Josh

 

[bejay]

Im sure we all know of someone or even have family that doesnt exactly follow the law when it comes to hunting whether you agree with it is really up to you.
the fines and possible loss of equipment and hunting rights can be steep for someone caught, depending on what game laws they break it could just be a small fine also and not that big of a deal.

 

[oneounceload]

Do you also stand by slavery?

No, and it has nothing to do with the thread at all

I have seen folks kill deer and after measuring the horns and realizing they weren't big enough to win some big buck contest, leave a 34" mulie to rot. I have watched poachers kill wrong game, kill out of season, and watched as a friend had his horse shot out from under him - even though both were fully clad in blaze orange - because someone was hunting out of season

So yes I DO believe what I wrote - I also believe in killing murderers, rapists and child molesters - even mothers who kill their own daughters - (something here in Florida we seem to have the market cornered for)

You don't agree? Fine - but to those who disagree, your petty name calling is not very High Road and if you disagree then have a debate about it

 

[Rail Driver]

In my opinion it depends on whether they are hunting their own land or somebody else's. I feel that people should respect published hunting seasons on public property, but when hunting their own property or other private property (with documented permission) it shouldn't matter.

The law doesn't agree. That's about as far as I know how to respond to this one.

 

[Flintknapper]

RD,

Are you saying that State Laws and hunting ethics STOP at property lines?

I don't know the status of game animals in every State but in my State (Texas), game animals belong to the State...not the landowner/agent.

Should anyone have a problem with the current game laws, work to change them, NOT disregard them because....well....." It's MY property "!

 

[EmbarkChief]

My family and extended family own land here in Texas. The game laws of this state are followed by all parties involved. I've never even heard of someone shooting a deer out of season with the exception of the sporatic deer stuck in a fence or involved in a vehicle collision.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I find it disgusting how many on this forum has posted that they agree with poaching as long as it is on private property. I never would have guess that on this forum...others yes, but not THR.

 

[T Bran]

jimmieraythomason
I guess I should take that into account my apologies.
However I dont know wheather to be happy for folks who dont have a hog problem or sad for them. On the plus side they are yummy.
On the minus side they find your property yummy.
T

 

[VT Deer Hunter]

We dont have an illegal tradition but it is a very odd thing thought, when you gut the buck you take the "fuzzy dice" and hang them on a branch of a tree near by.

 

[Mike1234567]

I find it disgusting how many on this forum has posted that they agree with poaching as long as it is on private property. I never would have guess that on this forum...others yes, but not THR.

What? You don't think any THR members might be law-breakers? Where have you been? Oh... you must be under 30 years old and still un-jaded. Let me give you the real facts young-'on. Fully half, more-or-less, of this country are basically sociopathic. An additional quarter are borderline sociopathic. The remaining quarter are basically good but, of those, only one of ten of this country are truly honest and caring. The others are, to some degree, incapable of even understanding what you're trying to say.

Sorry to bash your rosy view of society in America but that's the cold honest truth.

 

[Rail Driver]

... poaching ...

Can someone tell me the similarity between shooting a deer on your own property out of season and stealing 100 lbs of meat from a grocery store? It seems like people are equating poaching/out of season hunting with thievery, or something worse.

While I understand the value in not randomly slaughtering everything in sight at every opportunity (I'm far from an idiot, criminal, or unethical hunter), I would like someone to explain to me how on earth things went from "You leave me alone, I'll leave you alone and we'll both be ok" to this current trend of "don't do anything outside the bounds of accepted society and hunt deer a day early or you'll be called a sociopath". The sociopath statement brought to mind an old adage, something about people in glass houses not throwing rocks.

If your neighbor's activities are offensive to you, by all means shut yourself off from them, but attempting to control what your neighbor does on his own land is kinda like trying to infringe on his rights isn't it? We don't like it when people tell us where when and how we can carry firearms for self defense as long as we're safe and not committing an actual crime, so why should anyone tell us where when or how we can hunt as long as we're safe and ethical?

 

[HGUNHNTR]

What? You don't think any THR members might be law-breakers? Where have you been? Oh... you must be under 30 years old and still un-jaded. Let me give you the real facts young-'on. Fully half, more-or-less, of this country are basically sociopathic. An additional quarter are borderline sociopathic. The remaining quarter are basically good but, of those, only one of ten of this country are truly honest and caring. The others are, to some degree, incapable of even understanding what you're trying to say.

Sorry to bash your rosy view of society in America but that's the cold honest truth.

Thanks, but I don't appreciate your condescending tone, and btw I am not under 30. The reason for my statement is the reason for the formation of this site. I am surprised because of the general integrity, and descency shown to fellow members on this site, that so many would condone illegal activity. This is The High Road, is it not?

 

[Mike1234567]

HGUNHUNTER... I'm agreeing with you. My sarcasm is directed at those who believe poaching is okay... and killing animals without need to feed one's self/family or protect one's family or property is okay. My sarcasm/pessimism developed from reading other THR posts from certain other members. And THIS is supposed to be "THR". AND, IMHO, it IS. Depressing, isn't it?

I'm sorry for my "under 30" comment. My "assumption" was that you've not yet lived long enough to be as jaded as I.

 

[Flintknapper]

RD wrote:

Can someone tell me the similarity between shooting a deer on your own property out of season and stealing 100 lbs of meat from a grocery store? It seems like people are equating poaching/out of season hunting with thievery, or something worse.

As a matter of fact….I can!

1. You steal 100 lbs. of meat from a grocery store (you have committed a crime) the meat belongs to the store and you did not have permission to take it, right?

2. You Poach a deer (steal the meat resource of an animal owned by the State). Again (you have committed a crime), the animal/meat resource belongs to the State and you did not have permission to take it.

So….in each case you committed a crime. In the first example…it is “theft” (straight up) in the second example it is also theft but the crime you will be charged with is “Poaching or taking an animal out of season”.

Most States now have laws that allow the courts to order “restitution” be paid to the State to replace the “value” of the animal. Why do they have these laws, because you STOLE IT. Sounds pretty “similar” to me.

This mentality of “My Land, My Rules” reaches a high end…when it violates, State or Federal Laws.

We ARE a nation of laws….remember?

If your neighbor's activities are offensive to you, by all means shut yourself off from them, but attempting to control what your neighbor does on his own land is kinda like trying to infringe on his rights isn't it?

It is NOT your “right” to hunt game animals, it is a privilege governed by State Law and can be taken away (just like your privilege to drive). There are rules, laws and regulations for a reason.

You might successfully argue that it is your “right” to break the law, but that it is a foolish proposition (if done on purpose).

We don't like it when people tell us where when and how we can carry firearms for self defense as long as we're safe and not committing an actual crime

Yes, but a rather important distinction is: Poaching a deer IS a crime, so I am not sure you have presented us with a reasonable analogy.

so why should anyone tell us where when or how we can hunt as long as we're safe and ethical?

I’ll assume by “anyone” you mean the State and are referring to the Game Laws when you say “where,when or how” we hunt.

There are a myriad of good reasons why the laws exist, simply being “safe” is not in itself justification to circumvent the law. I could steal your car and be “safe” about it.


As for ethics….that is subjective enough a matter that the State feels the need to provide some guidelines. I’ve seen enough (hunters ?) “ethics” in my lifetime to be persuaded that the State needs to establish the “minimums” in the form of laws and regulations….because Lord knows there are certain people unable to do it for themselves.


Its really very simple folks:

Obey the Game Laws. IF you disagree with them, we have a system in this country by which you may attempt to change them.

The Law, Truth, Honesty and Ethics…. should not hit a brick wall at your property line!

Just my .02 on it.

Flint.

 

[ZeroJunk]

We don't pick and chose the laws we obey. If everybody did there would be no end to it.

 

[langenc]

Read 'Survival poaching' by Ragnor--for entertainment of course.

Disrespect for one law is disrespect for all laws!



".......committing an actual crime, so why should anyone tell us where when or how we can hunt as long as we're safe and ethical?"

BUT ethical includes legal, most places.

 

[ljnowell]

We don't pick and chose the laws we obey. If everybody did there would be no end to it.

Yeah, most everyone does and I imagine you do too. You have never driven 1mph over the speed limit?

 

[ZeroJunk]

Yeah, most everyone does and I imagine you do too. You have never driven 1mph over the speed limit?

I have been driving for 40 years, sometimes 60,000 miles a year. And, I have never had a ticket.

If there is some logical extension from speeeding to poaching I guess I am just not bright enough to see it.

BTW, that's just what we need on a hunting forum, justifying poaching.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Horse stealing, cattle resulting were/are hanging offenses - basically poaching of private property."

Oneounceload, you're around a hundred years behind the times. Try the 21st century, not the 19th or earliest 20th.

Mike1234567, the carcasses would not be left to rot; the reason for the killing was to acquire the meat to sell. That's the "why" of that poaching effort. No $$$, no poaching.

Folks, this thread is degenerating into as trivial a level of exaggerated yet irrelevant points as I've seen this side of one of the handgun forums. You can do a lot better--or should, anyway.

 

[atek3]

I get the impression that BambiB is a more frequent poster than his/her two post count suggests.

While I don't advocate breaking laws unless the laws themselves are patently immoral, I do find it funny that so many conservative hunters go on this anti-poaching kick while on the other hand railing against socialism. The common law treatment of poaching was predicated on the fact that the animal's were all the property of the crown. The 13 Colonies inherited this odious part of common law. When the United States was founded we simply substituted the State for the king. Because game species are the property of the State, the State then introduces a rationing scheme to "fairly" allocate them to hunters.

To me, there is little difference between poaching deer and pilfering a pair of shoes from the People's Shoe Factory in the Soviet Union. Both behaviors are unfair to others, but they are situations of artificial scarcity created by common ownership of a scarce resource. When the price of a deer is $30 (the resident tag) and the price of Soviet shoes is 4 Roubles, the government will need to ration somehow. In both cases neither the hunter angry at the poacher nor the shoe buyer angry at the antisocial ukaznik who steals the shoes can imagine any system for resource allocation that doesn't involve the state.

atek3

 

[Davek1977]

While I don't think it excuses poaching, I do think landowner rights are a factor. The commonly and legally accepted idea is that the "state" owns the wildlife. Thats a bitter pill to swallow when the landowner provides the food, water, and shelter 24/7/365 for these critters they don't own. When harboring anyone else's livestock, we are paid rent for the land...and can dictate how hard its grazed, the number of animals permitted, etc. Yet, we get nothing for the vast herds of deer that eat our forage, drink the water, and utilize the shelter. Many will speak up and say "Well, if you don't want deer...allow them to be hunted." Nice try, but we DO allow hunting on our land, and have never charged for the privledge. Taking that into consideration, i don't think its necessarily "right" to force the landowner to apply and buy a deer tag just like a non-landowner. I don't know what the real answer is, but maybe granting private landowners with x amount of tags per x amount of acres....to do as they please with (sell, use themselves, share with family, etc) free of charge would be a start. Private landowners do a LOT for conservation efforts, and are shown little recognition for it. While not a perfect solution, I think an idea such as mine has some merit.....certainly moreso than a mandatory death penalty for poaching a deer, anyway!!! While a crime that deserves punishment, I see no rational for attempting to excuse murder because of someone committing a misdemeanor theft!

 

[Mike1234567]

(partial quote) Mike1234567, the carcasses would not be left to rot; the reason for the killing was to acquire the meat to sell. That's the "why" of that poaching effort. No $$$, no poaching.

Thanks, Art. I may be misunderstanding your reply but... I was writing about the scarcity of dear in my immediate area. Surprisingly few when I first moved here and now none at all to be seen. Lots of gunfire morning and evening. Not so much now that all the deer seem to have "vanished".