Questions About A Conceal Carry 1911

[Monkeybear]

If you have read any of my recent post you know I am seriously considering a 1911 as a conceal carry weapon. It is a difficult decision to commit to becoming proficient with an entirely new manual of arms for a pistol that I may decide dose not work for me as a conceal carry weapon.

I have a few details to work out about which 1911 to get.

Should I carry Commander or Government sized pistol? Should it be in .45 or 10mm? Once I figure this out I can actually buy one.

I am only concerned with practical issues such as reliability, ballistics and ease of carry/use. Statements about how "God and JMB meant things to be" or other such nonsense are of no value to me. I don't mind reading post along those lines, but please try to include something helpful as well.

This idea has required a lot of hard thinking and research, now I just need a little insight from you guys to help put things into perspective.

I conceal carry wth IWB holsters, jeans and a polo shirt. Help me out here guys, what do you think? Any ideas? Any insight?

 

[Babalouie]

Great question and one I have been thinking about. I currently carry a Keltec PF9. I have carried a Taurus PT140 as well as a Springer 1911 Trophy Match...just to see how it would carry. BTW I shoot several thousand a year in uspsa in limited class shooting an STI Edge...I just say this to qualify myself as someone who shoots alot and is very familiar with shooting firearms. When I carried the full size 1911 it was incredibly heavy and the long barrel made sitting in a restaurant a bit uncomfortable...the weight was the major factor. The grip size didn't bother me too much. I am currently REALLY interested in the S&W 1911PD...its Commander size, lightweight and the barrel seems a good length for comfort. I like the full size grip considering you get 8+1 in it. I read a lot of post saying the barrel length is not an issue for them but its a big issue for me.

As far as 45 or 10mm...45 of course...its the great American round in the great American pistol...how could you want it in 10mm. There is also the upside of ammo price.

Here's is what currently floats my boat:

 

[ditch_dgr]

I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II Stainless .45 everywhere I go, I love the gun. I shoot it every other week (100 rounds at a range visit) and I have never had a problem with it.

 

[GDW]

I carry 3 pistols: S&W 442 and almost always have on me, a Kimber Series I Compact, which is fabulous and a full size Springfield 1911 tricked out by Ted Yost. As far as concealability (not including the snub nose) the Kimber Compact is the easiest to carry because of the shorter grip and slightly less weight. A Colt Commander and Government will be about the same IMO as far as concealability because of the grip length...unless it's a light weight Commander. Bob tail 1911 sounds like a good idea too, but have never messed with one. As you know 1911's are slim, which is a good thing. Both of my 1911's are extremely accurate and reliable, I'll go so far as to say they never jam. I use them in IDPA and am very happy with them. I don't know anything about 10mm so I can't help you there. Good luck.

 

[distra]

In th 1911 platform, I generally carry a Spring micro in .45ACP or a bobtailed S&W Sc commander. Both conceal well, the micro is a touch better, both are reliable pistols and comfortable to wear all day.

 

[Monkeybear]

Wow, thanks for the quick and excellent post. I have been thinking about getting a DW CBOB but might get a Commander Colt too/instead.


As to why ask about 10mm.....because a 10mm 175gn Winchester Silver Tip goes out of a 5.5" barrel at 1290FPS +/- 50fps. Thats 649flbs or kinetic energy. Now I'm not sure how exactly that would help me if I ever needed to use my pistol to defend myself but that won't stop me from feeling better about having it.

 

[WoofersInc]

I prefer the 1911 as my main carry gun. I have multiples of them and barrel lengths of 3,4, and 5 inch. How you are planning to carry will also affect what size you want to look at. Do you plan on IWB or OWB? What is the weather in your area and how will you be dressed?
Just a few more things to think about.

 

[BullfrogKen]

For your first, chose one in .45 ACP. The magazines and parts are easier to find, as is the ammunition, over a 10mm. Of course, if you've got a supply of 10mm handy, or a vendor nearby, have at it.

The 10mm is a stout round, and you'll have to practice with this new gun to get used to it. The 10mm is both more expensive, and kicks harder than .45 ACP.


What model? There are so many these days.

Government - full size 5" barrel
Commander - full size grip, 4 1/4" barrel

note that Kimber's version has a 4" barrel; its a one-off which means harder to find replacement parts like springs​

Officer - shorter grip and 3 1/2" barrel

Materials - Steel, Aluminum, Scandium, Polymer . . . it gets mind boggling . . .


My comments are, for a carry gun, think about getting something lighter than a steel frame. Steel gets heavy after a while. There really isn't any problem with longevity with aluminum. Its largely a myth. I've seen steel frames fail just like aluminum.

The best combination of a carry gun size-wise is probably the few years Colt took the Officer's frame, and married it to the Commander slide. The butt of the 1911 is that part we need to conceal, and that combination is a pretty sweet one. Gunsite is making that now, but its not exactly an entry-level gun. Its not full-blown custom, but its a good package and has all the features one would want on a carry gun. So you'll pay a bit more for it. Kimber makes a copy, too. But again its in that one-off 4" barrel.

Otherwise, take a close look at something in the Commander size. Its a little quicker and easier to draw.

 

[Monkeybear]

Thanks Bullfrog,

I think I agree that a Commander is the way to go. Its lighter and smaller. I figure if its our of a 4 1/2 barrel might as well just use .45 acp as those 10mm Silvertips need a big barrel to get their push.

I have a hard time buying 1911 used. I just don't know enough about 1911s to look at one and know whats been modified on them and how well it was done.

Its pretty much a Dan Wesson Commander Bob Tail or one of these Gunsite 1911s. I still need to check them out.

Springer and Kimber both seem to have 4" barrels. Para has a horrible reputation. Colts rep seems spotty as well and I don't like the way they come from the factory. S&W I still have yet to actually see in person.

The only thing about the CBOB is that it is alot heavier than the alloy 1911s I have held. Oh well, a CBOB is what I want and guns are like cars and bikes, just get the one you are most passionate about.

 

[sm]

Monkeybear,

My experiences going way back.

-45 ACP
-Gov't Model of 1911, 5" blue.
-Colt Steel Combat Commander.
-Colt Lightweight Commander

These are what I chose for gun fit to me, before I was a teenager and I am over 50 years old and shot my first 1911 at age 6.
I carried 1911s for more serious needs, at 13.

I prefer bone stock, or as close as can be, with USGI/ Colt 7 round mags, dimpeled follower, solid base plates.

I will NOT carry a smaller 1911 than a Commander size, not even a Officer's model.

Springfield makes a good gun withing the above "druthers of mine.
Caspian frame, slide, built with quality parts , as this gun was intended to have by folks such as Ed Brown.
My personal thing, but I refuse to use anything Wilson.

Again, I prefer bone stock, or as near as I can to original specs.
Original hammers "sometimes" have just a smidgen, removed off the back.
I go over gun with a pc of nylon hose, and check for sharp spots, smooth, call it good to go, and my only real want, is gold bead front sight.

My guns always run out of the box, even firing JHPs, such as the Old Flying Ashtrays.
I just run the gun, double check what loads it likes and use them.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?
So the original specs are proven, I want this, with the metallurgy of original, and that gold bead front sight.

Holsters, depends on personal physical nature, Galco has been one that works for me and my body type.
Try a variety of holsters if you can.

Then again I go back where choices were not what they are today, so we just had shoe shop folks and other leather workers, take a new holster ( or one from used bin) and undo , and re-do to fit us.

Nobody whined about not having holsters not even ladies , not handicapped - we just dealt with it.

Hard to beat a Lightweight Commander, for carry.
My guts says, that one would fit your needs very very well.

 

[Monkeybear]

The lightweight commander, is that the Colt XSE lightweight commander?

The one thing I like about the Colts is that I hear they are made a bit loose, and over and over again I hear that a little loose is the way its supposed to be. Last time I looked at the Colts over at Gander I neglected to check...... anything really. I just held it in my hand and nodded sagely as the guy at the counter mumbled something about the good old days. He was like 30 or something and I couldn't hear or understand any of what he said so I didn't ask any questions.

The DW CBOB, well look for yourself. That looks tight to me but is it too tight?



On various 1911 forums I have heard that Colt quality control has really gone out the door as of late. Basically that the old equipment is wearing out and Colt could care less if its not for a Govt. contract. Same stuff thats been going around for a while.

I don't know if this is true or not. This is the only forum where I really trust any of what I read, so what do you guys think of that?

Other thing I read alot is that you should really check out your particular gun before you buy it. Seems 1911s purchased online are seen as a bit of a crap shoot over on one 1911 forum. Every time someone has a problem everyone says "Didn't you inspect it before you purchased it?". Buying one locally is gonna be a whole lot more expensive than getting one at Buds or FBMGs.

So basically-

1. Is Colt quality still up there with the rest?
2. Would you buy a NIB pistol unseen online or would you have to inspect it first.

 

[Tom Fury]

Here be land mines:

Buying unseen is kind of a crapshoot; not advised for a first time purchase, and risky for someone with more experience. Be honest about your expectation/disappointment threshold before you do that; I would do it, but I have no problem and some experience with tweaking and actually find fixing problems challenging and fun (I also know when to quit). I also know some excellent gunsmiths, and when to call them instead (Never let anyone but the best touch your guns is probably the best piece of advice I ever had).

Those that believe in out of the box perfection (a myth, perpetrated by Glock salesmen) will flame me, but; currently, all of my 1911's work (perfectly). Even those with less than 4" barrels...

I'll get shot at for this too; after a while, you just develop a sense about whether this ones' gonna work or not. (Individual guns; not individual manufacturers). Belief in a name brand should come after, not before...Wanting someone to tell you "Who makes the BEST OOB 1911..." is asking someone else to do your homework for you, and arranging to have someone else to blame if you're disappointed in the results. Just like the homework thing; ya won't learn nothin', and will have deprived yourself the opportunity to gain experience.

The only one I would trust OOB right now is S&W. Can't judge tight from a picture; gotta touch it. Have no experience with new CZ/DW, and am very interested, so no comment on their quality is inferred. Have been told by someone I trust that current Colt quality is as good as anybodys, when I hit the staes again, I want to look into New Agent and LW Commander. I have experienced their stock 1991a1 vintage barrels to be as good as anybodys' commercial barrels and some match types; there are Colt stock barrels in both of my EGW Custom Commanders at this time.
All 1991a1's I have owned and customized were excellent and tight individual guns. I have seen one 1991a1GM that was a nightmare.

Unfortunately, (fortunately?) there is also a learning curve with the 1911. You have to learn to love it. This requires commitment and time, during which you gain experience and respect. (and trust) Just like...
Are you ready for that? It doesn't come in a box.
Well, anyway; I'm offending the perfectionists here; but maybe explaining a bit about why many 1911 enthusiasts wax all poetic and wistful and misty-eyed (and superior and overbearing) when they talk about their guns.

LW Commander is the way to go for a carry weapon.

Cheers, TF

 

[1911 guy]

My personal opinion(s).

First, I'd carry a full size gun. The commanders have proven to be pretty good guns, but solve a non-existent problem. The part of a handgun that's hardest to conceal is the grip, and both are the same. 3/4" of barrel makes no difference, unless you carry IWB. Then it's a crap shoot, as some find one length or the other to be more comfortable when sitting. Commanders poke me in the butt cheek, while others are shaped differently and find the full size too long to sit without leaning to one side or pushing the gun up into their side. There is the weight issue, but I also feel it's a non-issue. You're carrying a gun, at least one reload and probably a flashlight and knife. What's a couple ounces one way or another?

Go with the .45acp. Magazines and ammo are much easier to find and cheaper than their 10mm bretheren. Not much more explaining needed.

I'd consider the biggest improvement to the 1911 for carry to be the option of bobtailing the frame. I don't have a bobbed gun, but I do see where it could be a big advantage. A bobbed fullsize in .45acp might be perfect for me, if I ever get around to buying another. "If"? Who am I kidding.

 

[distra]

You could have one of these built. I'm in the process of breaking it in and proving reliability. Ti bobtailed commander.






Or a S&W Commander

 

[pogo2]

Aluminum frame, shorter barrel, slim grip panels

I have carried a 1911 quite a bit, and decided that the best setup for me was the aluminum frame version in either 3 or 4 inch barrel, with slim grip panels. This results in a reasonably lightweight gun (25 to 28 ounces empty) with a shorter barrel and very thin profile for concealment. The two that I use are a Colt Defender (3 inch barrel) and a Kimber Pro CDP (4 inch barrel). I alternate depending on the situation, and the Defender is considerably easier to conceal. Both guns have been quite reliable through many practice rounds so far.

 

[krs]

Bobtails work good because they take the corner that lifts your shirt off. An alternative is to simply round the corner as I did with my carry pistol - Colt CCO (Commander length barrel/slide on Officer's allow frame.
7 + 1, feeds all ammo. I've been using alumagrip thin ones but I'm not completely sold on them as they're kinda' slick.

 

[sixgunner455]

I like 1911's a lot, when they are made of steel. I'm not as fond of aluminum ones, but some here know that I have arthritis in my shooting wrist. Doesn't make it hard to hold up a heavy gun (usually), but does make it hard to take full recoil from a light one.

The ones I've shot that I liked best were Springfields.

I prefer a CZ75, though, just from ergonomic feel, and the lighter recoil of the 9mm tips the scale to it for me. I carry it sometimes, but not every day. If I were to carry a 1911, it would be full size, all steel, and mostly stock. Maybe the bobtail, maybe not. Doesn't bother me either way, but I can see the advantage in not nudging the cover garment around.

Either is a big gun, and it's hot here a lot. Every day, I carry a jframe. Just makes life easier.

 

[wristtwister]

Carry Full Size

I have an issue with carrying "scaled down" guns that start eliminating the number of rounds available in a firefight. As a former LEO, I know that situations where gunfire is present are fluid at best, and being pinned down with six or so rounds is exactly why PD's went from revolvers to autoloaders.
Now, gun manufacturers want you to start buying pistols that are scaled back to the same round count as revolvers... it doesn't make any sense. If you want six shots, carry a revolver.

Concealed carry is for safety, not convenience... and usually the guy with the most ammo wins. High volume- high firepower trumps low round-count every time.

I'm not about to tell you what pistol to carry, because we all have different skills of shooting... but when I carry, it's full sized and with a high round count. Often, Smith 4006 (11+1) AND a backup... plus extra clips. Sometimes it's a Ruger SR-9 (17+1)... and if I'm shooting either one of them, you want to be behind me because there's a lot of fire going downrange.

I consider all the hype of "concealed carry weapons" to be sales bunk... just the gun dealers trying to sell something else that doesn't have the real goods. If you talk to people who buy them, they end up buying "extended clips" for them just to get the round count up to where a full sized gun would already be.

My advice, if you want to call it that, would be to practice with the weapon of your choice, and then figure out the best way to carry it concealed... not the other way around. Buy larger coats or shirts, or even "concealed carry" clothes to help you... but keep your firepower with you. Coming in 2nd in a gunfight isn't the best option.

WT

 

[distra]

wristtwister,

I agree you need to practice with which ever firearm you choose, but most SD "firefights" occur @ less than 21' and are over with less than 6 rounds fired. I understand this is just an average, but the balance of concealability vs round count is always debateable. With all due respect, "spray and pray" may be fine for LEO (latest NY groom shooting for instance ), but your average Joe in SD situation is responsible for EACH and EVERY round fired. Practice @ hitting what you are shooting at is much more important than round count. I would not feel out gunned with my G36 6+1, 1911 micro 6+1 or my commander (or full size 1911 for that matter) with 8+1. I do carry my G21 (13+1), but I don't feel any "safer" with it versus the others. Bottom line is A gun is better than NO gun in a gun fight regardless of round count.

 

[colt1903]

MB,

It would be best for you to find a range that rents different variations to see what you fits you best. I recently picked up the SIG Revolution C3 which is a 4.25 inch Commander barrel on an Officer's shortened frame. It conceals very well with a Clip Draw attachment and, the balance is near perfect for my hands. Enjoy the search, it's half of the fun.


Here's the C3 laid over a Kimber Full Government sized pistol for comparison:

 

[Phaseline]

1911 Carry

I have been carrying for a number of years and have not had much luck carrying the 1911. The amount of "elbow throw" just to clear leather is (in my opinion) excessive. Even in a Kramer rig, the angle was still very high. When I tried a shorter double stack Para Ord the butt was too heavy and pulled away from my body "printing" the gun. A colt officers model was the right size, but couldn't compete with my Sig 229 for amount of rounds carried for the extra wieght.

Also, even premium ammo has a big fall off when launched out of shorter barrels, so you have to use lighter bullets for reliable expansion (leading us back to .40 or .357 Sig).

Short story long, I tried for 3 years to find a way to comfortably carry a 1911, with not much luck.

 

[Norm357]

As of late, I have really been jonesing for that little bob tailed DW 10mm.

 

[MICHAEL T]

LW Commander Reason for me is that extra 3/4 " is in way when I sit . Commander fits perfect .
I have went to the officer and Compact Defender or New Agent . But Commander still best all around size.
As for loose and rattle Last week I out shot both of my Buddies Springfields with my Commander . They shot better group with my Commander also .
We also shot up some old 230 ball a 1 springer choked every round other had a couple jams. The so call loose Colt ate it all and wanted more.
A little loose slide doesn't mean pistol is inaccurate .
My Colt had a 4.1 lb trigger from box.

 

[Chuck Dye]

I suspect that it is largely a matter of what you are used to. I have been comfortably carrying a full sized 1911 for a few years. I took delivery yesterday of a Kimber Compact Stainless II and have worn it for about 12 hours now. I have several times had a minor moment of panic thinking I have left the gun somewhere, only to find the Kimber snug in its holster. (Ever stomp on the brake pedal in a panic as the car next to you pulls from its parking space?) Until I started carrying the compact model, the full sized model never gave me pause. I expect that, in a few days, the compact model will have all the presence the full sized has.

Buy quality, you will get used to it.

 

[moga]

Another vote for a commander slide on a officer frame.

I carry one on occasion in a Crossbreed SuperTuck IWB. It is very easy to conceal at the appendix, 3:00, or 4:30. Second to a 38 snub, it's my favorite summer carry for the hot Georgia season.