Questions About Home Built AR's

[montgomery381]

I have been reading some threads about people building their own AR's and this has got me looking into doing one. However, I started pricing componets and it seems like it wouldn't be any cheaper to build one over buying one. So, I have a couple of questions 1) How much should it cost to build an AR? And I mean just the absolute necessities, the barrel (16"), gas system, receiver, and buffer tube. I am narrowing it to the basics because I already have an idea about the rails, stock, sights, etc. 2) What manufactures make quality parts? I am not looking to build a match rifle but just a reliable and standard accuracy rifle. I appreciate any info, thanks.

 

[greyling22]

take a look at the delton kits, slickguns, palmetto armory, and kerrisguns (when they have a sale). You can get a plastic complete lower for around 130 delivered, and an aluminum one for 150 or so.

basically you can build one all day long for around 550-575 (after ffl and shipping), or you can buy a complete one for around 650ish. (after ffl and shipping http://palmettostatearmory.com/8923.php) And it will be a fine AR. now, AR's are like custom homes, you can add 5 bucks here, 5 bucks there, and upgrade on this, a doodad on that, a basketball goal in the back, and the next thing you know you're out a cool grand or a second mortgage. Also, the AR crowd tends to get snobby and opinionated. Nothing but the "best" is any good and everything else if junk, so take that into consideration.

If you're not going into combat, competition shooting, or planning on running thousands of rounds through it a year, cheap AR's are just fine, and my suspicion is that there is a lot more rebranding on and parts equality than even I think. (for example, remington, dpms, and bushmaster are all owned by the same outfit, and I doubt they use a different bin of disconnectors or trigger guards for each gun. And I speculate they source the parts from somebody who supplies to RRA, stag, spikes, bravo etc. But I could be wrong, and now I'll go put my soapbox away.)

 

[MrCleanOK]

If you are comparing apples to apples, a factory gun will usually be cheaper, and obviously retain much more resale value. Where building your own becomes economical is customization. If you were to buy rifle X, then swap the stock, handguard and sights; you would have been better off building it the way you want it from the beginning.

As far as dollar amounts go, I can build top quality, basic featured shooters for about $900. I don't dabble in the mid- and low quality ARs, but its not uncommon to see rifles getting built in the $600 ballpark.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

 

[ants]

Also, the AR crowd tends to get snobby and opinionated. Nothing but the "best" is any good and everything else if junk.

This is worth repeating.
It's so true, and so funny at the same time.
They always want YOU to spend a gazillion bucks on YOUR accessories.
And I bet most of that crowd have no money of their own.
It's just too easy to be a snob with your nose buried in other people's wallets.

 

[83Enforcer]

Best advice is do your homework. The AR component business is very incestuous. There are very few companies that forge upper and lower receivers ; most buy from a few mfg's and machine to spec. Bolts; barrels and springs are where you need to be picky. DPMS and DSA OEM small parts to most mfg.'s.( LPK's and fire controls) CMG; LMT and S&W forge most uppers and lowers for the industry. Forging is a very expensive mfg process; LMT and CMG started as government contractors for Colt. S&W has the largest forging operation of any of the major MFG's. They forge parts for multiple mfg.'s and decided a few years back to build their own AR15's. Ever wondered why S&W; CMG and LMT can offer their basic AR's hundreds of dollars cheaper than the others? The rest use these parts to mfg their rifles to better and/or lesser quality. I have only covered a small part of the parts suppliers; these are the major ones. There are dozens who specialize in small segments of the industry and the list will vary depending on government contracts from year to year. YMMV

 

[ugaarguy]

83E, LMT's base models are about the same price as Colt's & Daniel Defense's base models.

S&W forging AR receivers is a relatively the recent thing too. The first S&W ARs were made with Stag (CMT) receivers. The current crop of $600 ARs are selling for $600 because they employ lower cost components or omit features in certain areas. (I would, and have made the argument the S&W M&P15 Sport saves costs in the right areas vs. the other $600 ARs. That's a bit outside the scope of this thread, and an advanced search for "Sport" with posts by user name will show you that, if you're super interested).

Last you refer to CMG in your post in a few times. Are you referring to CMT, or CMMG?

 

[kgpcr]

To each his own. Lots of good lowere priced AR's out there now. Personally i would not build but buy because i dont want or need anything out of the ordinary

 

[deadeye1122]

Build your own lower with a stripped lower from Palmetto State Armory when they are on sale (57.00 shipped) then later order one of their AR rifle kits (saves the 11% tax) for the kit you want. Has everthing needed to assemble a stripped lower complete AR except rear sights and mag. The lower is easy to assemble if you take your time. when done I'll have 592.00 in my build less sights and mag. Have not heard anything bad about PSA other than you have to be patient for the big brown truck to show up. Good luck

 

[83Enforcer]

ugaarguy,

Meant CMT; I'll stand by everything I said. S&W using Stag receivers just illustrates my point. I recall an interview I read with Mike Golden; then ceo of S&W; he stated that S&W had been forging parts for major US mfg.'s of AR15's for many years; before they decided to build complete AR's. Can't recall how long ago the interview was and how long he said they had been making parts. Just know they have been in the AR business far longer than the public realized.

Because the AR business is full of kissing cousins and half sisters; it's difficult for AR aficionado's who follow this regularly to keep it all straight. I am not one of 'em and don't claim to be. Just trying to pass on factoids that will keep the AR "Brand" zealots feet on the ground.

 

[taliv]

I am personally somewhat disappointed that the class warfare continues in the AR market after all these years. It basically just shows people are buying more guns than ammo. If you attend a match or class it will quickly become obvious what works and doesn't.

Manufacturing is not a mystery to anyone with even a few minutes of actual mfg experience. People seem to be implying that a vendor can either put out all good products or all cheap products. Why would anyone assume something so stupid?

Sure manufacturers buy and sell components to each other. Maybe colt made too many parts and sold some o their excess to a 2nd tier mfg. maybe later a batch fails qc but is still serviceable but can't be sold to the military so that batch gets sold to another mfg. I know this happens because I have purchased parts from a big name commercial vendor in person and they explained why they were sellin me the part in question that was made by colt.

The reverse is also possible that mil contractors sometimes can't meet production and sub out parts to other mfgs. So what? As long as it meets spec it's fine. However that does not in any way imply that all parts made by that mfg are to spec.

And it doesn't meant all parts made by colt are equal either.

And it is easy to make a gun with better parts than milspec (but not for $600). Though it is very rare to see someone assemble one better than milspec assembly.

let's try to tone down the "brand snob" talk

 

[35 Whelen]

let's try to tone down the "brand snob" talk

Amen.

35W

 

[Surf]

While there are those perpetuating "Brand snobbery", mostly because they just regurgitate what they hear or read, but in reality from what I see "brand snobbery" is often blown out of proportion and perpetuated more by those giving it that label.

The fact is that not all parts or weapons are created equal and to the same standards. Either parts or weapons parts and assembly are made and done to certain levels of quality or standards or they are not. It really is that simple. This applies to any product in our everyday lives, not just firearms.

The key is to understand what your applications, needs, or uses are for the weapon and be an informed consumer about the products and make your purchase accordingly. If your only killing paper or cans, not a problem, buy accordingly and have fun with whatever your choice. If your using a weapon that sees heavy usage or more importantly perhaps a weapon intended for critical use situations then you might, or should look into certain parts or manufacture features that are known to increase overall reliability of function and performance on this weapon platform. Some manufacturers do that much better than others.

As an example, I can drive my Neon around and I can get from A to Z, or even have some fun racing around in it even beating the piss out of it from time to time. But I definitely don't get it confused with a Corvette Z06 in quality of parts or performance. But then again maybe I can't afford a Vette and am just as content killing cans in my Neon. Can my Vette have a problem? Sure it can, it happens. But in the grand scheme of things, you will have much more problems across the brand with the Neon. Am I disillusioned that my Neon is "just as good as" the Vette? Not a chance but I don't care, because it suits my needs and that is what matters to me.

For the OP, if you check out my signature I have a pretty in depth build tutorial that is geared at someone with no prior experience building this platform. If you can't build it from that series than perhaps you should find another hobby. It will also give you an idea of everything needed from parts to minimal tools.

Oh btw, I don't actually own a Neon or a Vette......not that there is anything wrong with it. Just don't want to be accused of being a car snob.

 

[Rshooter]

Thanks Taliv.

 

[daytodaze]

I was able to build my ar for 600 shipped. I loved the gun and never had any hangups, but ammo isn't cheap. I used a del-ton kit with a spikes tactical stripped lower. +1 on the snobbery, though! All the guys loved my gun until I told them what it was Haha! As soon as they found out it was a delton, it suddenly become loose, less accurate and only good for weighing down paper targets on windy days.

 

[Strykervet]

Check Rainier Arms. They specialize in AR's and don't carry junk. They don't have everything, they have a lot, but everything they have is quality stuff. They can get you squared away on a build if you call them.

If you are just looking for an upper, the LMT M4 upper is a good one. I have one and it works great. Accurate, reliable, well built.

 

[CJS06]

PSA

Also take a look at Palmetto State Armory. Their stuff is built to an excellent specification. They also regularly run specials. I have used many of their parts on builds for myself and others with excellent results. I just built a middy using their mostly PSA parts for just over $700 .

 

[Tirod]

Anyone wanting to build shouldn't expect to do it cheaper. It's simple, a AR assembler (face it, most DON'T make ANY of the parts,) will buy everything direct at bulk pricing. They get serious discounts buying 100 to 1,000 at a time. Don't forget, they also mark them up and then sell them at retail - which is all WE can buy them at.

The $1,000 kitchen table gun is likely the $700-800 retail version, each part for part identical. Case in point, LAR was started to manufacture uppers to supply to the US Government as replacement parts. MSRP is about $128, retail $100, and when you can get one direct in a blem sale, $48, which is what I paid.

With that in mind, if anyone chooses to build what's already advertised and on the shelf, what's the point? It will only cost more, each and every part paid for at retail, like the '84 Ford LTD that sold for $6,000 on the lot, and $24,000 over the parts counter.

Build what you can't get - because it's just not available. Case in point, I put together a fixed stock 6.8SPC dissipator that's all in Foliage Green, rifle handguards, and nitrided barrel, bolt, and carrier, with AGP lower. It has an integral trigger adjustment screw.

Others prefer something that captures a picture of every cool part available - which does not imply that the result is more useful than the typical $700 M4gery. But, that's the point - is what will be built purposed to a specific shooting task defined by range and target? Me, I built a deer rifle.

What exactly is in mind here?

 

[kfgk14]

Also take a look at Palmetto State Armory. Their stuff is built to an excellent specification. They also regularly run specials. I have used many of their parts on builds for myself and others with excellent results. I just built a middy using their mostly PSA parts for just over $700 .

This. They have many flavors available, including the only 20" hammer-forged barrel on the market today, from FN no less!
Their kits are solid, m4carbine.net has several threads on the PSA kit that's out there. Add a light, red dot and good 1 or two-point sling to any of their MOE rifle kits, and you have a capable weapons platform for less than most complete rifles that are commercially available today. Down the road, drive out the FSB pins to add a float tube, and you have a totally squared-away platform for under $1500. They sell some great components too.

 

[greyling22]

tirod, I believe there is a 10% tax on making a complete firearm. that's how you undercut the complete gun price by building your own.

 

[35 Whelen]

Anyone wanting to build shouldn't expect to do it cheaper. It's simple, a AR assembler (face it, most DON'T make ANY of the parts,) will buy everything direct at bulk pricing. They get serious discounts buying 100 to 1,000 at a time. Don't forget, they also mark them up and then sell them at retail - which is all WE can buy them at.

I just built one on a PSA lower and a Del-Ton kit for under $550. It's a shootin' little motor scooter too! I'm going to post about it as soon as I get time. Granted, I did get a dealer discount on the kit, but even at "non" dealer price the total price would have still bee well under $650.

35W

 

[Tirod]

I may have skirted a 10% conservation tax, but the finished price of the gun doesn't reflect it. We're talking a plain jane A3 upper and lower with CavArms fixed stock and rifle handguards. Certainly nothing HSLD, and nothing especially expensive in it. Barrel, bolt, and carrier under $380.

Even with the lower at $125 and upper at $60 to the front door, major savings just aren't there in a build using all new retail parts. Especially compared to all the M4geries at $599, like the sale offered by Palmetto Armory they emailed today.

Another cost is over $50 in shipping alone. That's not unlikely in a build, but a deal killer on a single gun, assembled or shipped as two subassemblies to skirt the tax.

 

[TonyAngel]

When I'm putting an AR together, I tend to stick with certain brands. If you want to call it brand snobbery, then so be it; but I've learned that it's cheaper and easier to find something that works and stick with it.

Lots of guys put ARs together on the cheap and they work fine for them. If you can/want to do it, more power to ya. On the other hand, if you go to a weekend match or shoot and run a thousand or two thousand rounds through the rifles, you'll see what stacks up and what doesn't. You'd be surprised at how much stupid crap there is on an AR that can break and render the rifle useless.

Since I've found what works for me and my needs, I've never had a NEED to go with the likes of Noveske or Colt. I tend to stick with Bravo Company, Spike's and Daniel Defense for parts. For barrels, the selection gets a bit wider, but a barrel from any of those three would be just fine for anything short of a true precision rig.

 

[sixgunner455]

Part of the savings might be when you do it. I built my carbine in 2007. M4geries around here were going for $1100 and up at the time. I didn't want an M4gery, anyway, as I've always thought that they were barrel heavy and that the 203 cut in the barrel is stupid to have if you're never going to mount one to the thing.

I couldn't get exactly what I wanted over the counter, and I didn't want to spend the price they were getting for them anyway. I built that rifle for ~$650. I ordered an assembled upper with a lightweight barrel, chrome lined, 1 in 9, 5.56 chamber, fixed carry handle on an A2 upper. The bolt is MPI. For a shooter, what more could I ask for? It rings steel at 100 yards and further, and is quick and accurate up close, and it's light. Really light. I have young people and women shoot it after shooting M4geries and other rifles, and they really appreciate the balance and weight. I even had a federal agent and firearms instructor raving about it, because of the weight and balance, wishing his M4 was more like it.

I was surprised, because he knew exactly what parts I used building it. His opinion was, if it works, who cares whose name was on the package of parts!

No commercial maker was making a rifle in that configuration when I built mine. They are now, and cost more than I spent on it. Going cheap isn't the only point to building your own, but it sure feels nice when you can get away with it!

 

[HKGuns]

Building is definitely the cheaper route to take. Find a stripped lower on sale somewhere for $100 or less and then put together the rifle you want from one of the vendors listed above. Lots of good suggestions in this thread, I used Del-Ton on a S&W M&P lower I got on sale for around $69 before the election of our disdain. The entire build, less accessories was around $600. Prices are coming down, so I'd expect you to do better now.

 

[kfgk14]

Building is cheaper if nobody sells what you want as a complete gun or upper/lower combo. If they sell what you want, the building has learning value, but not much else. I have particular tastes in firearms, so I built my AR-15.