Questions about Winchester Mod 12

[spanky1968]

Of the many many shotguns my brother and I inherited when dad passed, I received an old Winchester Mod 12 in what looks like military configuration. It has the "bomb/flame" infantry proof mark on the action and barrel.

Barrel measures 18-19" with a "Cutts" compensator/brake on the end. Barrel is also a cylinder bore.

Gun appears to be in original condition or a very old refinish. Take down marks appear old, but no rust. Serial number dates to 1944. Possibly a war surplus that he picked up in the '60's. Dad got most of his long guns back then as surplus because he said they were cheap and available.

My question is more for the compensator:

1. Were these stock equipment for the military to reduce recoil?
2. Are they the same diameter as the bore?
3. Will they shoot slugs?

Since I didn't know dad had this old gun, we never talked about it, so I wanted to try and get some history.

 

[Panzerschwein]

It will be a 2 3/4" only gun. I am not aware of any military M12s that came with a compensator, it might be aftermarket.

 

[equin]

Sorry I don't know the answers to your questions, but those of us who love Model 12s need pics, especially of the bomb/flame marks!

 

[MSgtEgress]

In the 60's my dad bought one that was a WW1 Army Trench Gun but had a polychoke not a cutts. it was well worn but solid and the shortened stock fit me pretty well as a 10 yr old. I learned to shoot skeet with that gun. When I went to college, my dad loaned it to my aunt for home protection, she passed unexpectedly and the gun disappeared. ( I suspect her husbands kids stole it) M12 is Great Gun and the proof marks make it worth more $$$. Don't try to restore it take it to a reputable gunsmith see if he can give you a good estimate of its worth.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The "flamin' onion" is a very cool thing to have on ANY Model 12. Congrats!

I used to have a commercial M12 that someone cut down to 20" barrel. That gun was fun to shoot! Holding down the trigger and slam firing 7 rounds of 00 buckshot was just nuts, no wonder those boys on Iwo and in the jungles of Nam liked having a 12 gauge for close in work!!

 

[FL-NC]

The only military shotguns I have seen with those compensators were on longer barreled guns. I was told that these guns were used in training to teach WW2 AAA gunners the principles of leading aircraft by having them shoot clay pigeons, and that some of those guns were later transferred to MWR activities like rod and gun clubs on bases to be used on skeet ranges and the like.

 

[spanky1968]

Wow. Thanks everybody. Yes it is a 2 3/4 chamber. It very well could have been cut down. Dad was subject to do that back then. I will say that even with a short barrel it is much heavier than the other model 12's we divided up. Below are some pics:

 

[spanky1968]

The only military shotguns I have seen with those compensators were on longer barreled guns. I was told that these guns were used in training to teach WW2 AAA gunners the principles of leading aircraft by having them shoot clay pigeons, and that some of those guns were later transferred to MWR activities like rod and gun clubs on bases to be used on skeet ranges and the like.

I read the same thing when researching this shotgun. We divided up 4 Mod 12's among the family when dad died. I kept the Browning A5's. Same designer, different name.

 

[equin]

Very cool!

 

[1MoreFord]

I read the same thing when researching this shotgun. We divided up 4 Mod 12's among the family when dad died. I kept the Browning A5's. Same designer, different name.

The M12 was only very partially based on a JMB design. It was designed in house at Winchester.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1912

 

[spanky1968]

The M12 was only very partially based on a JMB design. It was designed in house at Winchester.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1912

You are correct

 

[RPRNY]

Great shape! Looks most excellent.

 

[spanky1968]

In the 60's my dad bought one that was a WW1 Army Trench Gun but had a polychoke not a cutts. it was well worn but solid and the shortened stock fit me pretty well as a 10 yr old. I learned to shoot skeet with that gun. When I went to college, my dad loaned it to my aunt for home protection, she passed unexpectedly and the gun disappeared. ( I suspect her husbands kids stole it) M12 is Great Gun and the proof marks make it worth more $$$. Don't try to restore it take it to a reputable gunsmith see if he can give you a good estimate of its worth.

The old gun shooting isn't for sale. It is currently residing behind my headboard loaded with 00 and #4 buckshot loads.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The old gun shooting isn't for sale. It is currently residing behind my headboard loaded with 00 and #4 buckshot loads.

Very cool. I used my cut down M12 for home defense loaded with #1 buck for many years. I did eventually sell the gun do to a double feed issue it would occasionally present. Not a good reason to sell it, I miss that old gun and should have had a gunsmith fix it. SMOOTH action and just felt SOLID in the hands. A good M12 inspires amazing confidence when handled.

 

[gunut]

the gun has been refinished...if it says CYL choke on the barrel it was most likely a WW2 riot gun to start....then sold as surplus after the war, refinished and cutts attached to make it more versatile....In fact I think there was a company specializing in redoing surplus guns... ..should make a nice nostalgic HD gun....

 

[spanky1968]

the gun has been refinished...if it says CYL choke on the barrel it was most likely a WW2 riot gun to start....then sold as surplus after the war, refinished and cutts attached to make it more versatile....In fact I think there was a company specializing in redoing surplus guns... ..should make a nice nostalgic HD gun....

This was supposed to be a reply to gunut. Text didn't post. Mods can delete. See proper reply below.

 

[AeroDillo]

I suspect what you have is (as others have said) a demilitarized trench and/or riot gun. The forward means of supporting the magazine tube would suggest the latter, as commercial and riot variants used a different magazine band. What you have there appears to use a band similar to the older (solid frame) Model 97s, which should engage a small protrusion on the center of the magazine cap. In trench gun guise, this will center the handguard/bayonet lug assembly and provide another point of contact and additional rigidity for said assembly.

Your magazine tube will also likely only have two holes in the forend, as opposed to a conventional takedown, which will have four.

Additionally, while your Cutts is likely correct for the WWII era, other have pointed out (correctly) that those were chiefly affixed to long-barreled guns which saw service in aerial gunnery training - the lion's share of which were Model 11 Remingtons and duplicates thereof.

Cool gun. I'd shoot it.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Do yourself a favor and for fun, load to full capacity and do some slam firing... with buckshot.

LOTS of firepower!!

 

[spanky1968]

Do yourself a favor and for fun, load to full capacity and do some slam firing... with buckshot.

LOTS of firepower!!

Oh yeah! That's exactly what I did when the first time I took it it out to our property. It is a beast, but oh what a rush. And yes it kicks like a mule with buckshot, but you don't really notice until you stop shooting.

the gun has been refinished...if it says CYL choke on the barrel it was most likely a WW2 riot gun to start....then sold as surplus after the war, refinished and cutts attached to make it more versatile....In fact I think there was a company specializing in redoing surplus guns... ..should make a nice nostalgic HD gun....

Gunut: Yes I realized that after I started looking closer at the lettering. It is clear that it has been buffed out. The inspection marks have also been sanded out of the stock. The recoil pad is aftermarket, and the stock finish looks to be old Tru-Oil or some other varnish. Dad like most guys in his 20's experimented with all sorts of shotguns and rifles. He probably had the wild ideal he was going to shoot birds with it. It is a cool old gun not really sentimental because I never knew he had it. It is a great HD shotgun, and that's what I use it for. I gave my other HD shotgun to my mom after he passed so this one filled the void.

As far as sentiment, I have his field worn Browning A5 light 20 that shoots like a dream. It is my constant companion for wing shooting now.

Thanks everybody for the input.