Questions for Open-Carry state residents

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I've open carried 3 times and they were all none issue. One kid even walked by me and near eye level with my gun and his eyes didn't even move to it, I was suprised about that!

 

[Jonah71]

In the small Mo. towns people don't seem to pay attention or care. When I do OC, I still use an IWB with not much of the gun in view. I carry completely concealed in cities. Seems to be a different mentality and reaction. Plus there's a much greater chance that someone may decide they like your gun enough to make an effort to take it

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Neverwinter, very true that there is a difference between the governors office and the legislature. I wasn't really referring to one or the other, I was just making the point that I think it is wrong for any branch of a state government to limit constitutional rights just because their state constitution says they can. And yes, I know that some of the S.C. decisions indicate otherwise, and I suppose that this is what lawmakers are using as a basis to restrict rights. I personally think that the S.C. decisions are misinterpreting the 2nd amendment. But I guess that my personal views don't carry as much weight as the S.C.
Mainsail, very true that the constitution doesn't grant rights. I didn't mean that in particular. I meant rights affirmed in the constitution. Anyways, regardless of the terms used I think everyone gets the point I was trying to make.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

mortablunt: To be sarcastically literal, all I need to do it grab a gun and a sling or holster, and then step out the door with it.

Right. I see that in most state laws. But then I see many comments, some of them in this thread right here that say something like " well I can do it except in this city or that, or I don't because I'm always getting called in MWAG etc..." That is why I started this thread. I can see the legal print authorizing OC, but I don't know how it plays out in real life. I have been pleasantly surprised by the large number of folks here that can OC hassle free. Including you. OCing an AK takes the OC thing to a new level. I really wish I could get away with that here.

 

[otasan56]

IN VERMONT and New Hampshire

I have been open carrying my G17 for close to ten years - no problems at all - only compliments and complimentary questions. I figure that most noticers assume that I am an LEO (WRONG). I don't take my G17 into Post Offices, VA hospitals, and places that advertise NO GUNS (I haven't seen any yet). Tomorrow I'll CCW into my church (NO "NO GUN" SIGNS!).

 

[USAFret]

Here in NH it depends on where you are. I live just a couple of hundred yards north of the state line with Massachusetts. OC here and the MA residents coming here to get around their state taxes will be making MWAG calls and having fits. Head farther north in NH and it becomes less and less of a problem. Once you get north of Concord, or sometimes even Manchester, you won't have issues unless you're in a popular vacation area full of non-residents. In the border towns next to MA, you even get hassled by the police even though they should know better.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Thanks again to everyone for contributing. Otasan56, over the past 10 years have you open carried everywhere? (that is legal to OC) Like to the grocery store and gas station etc? Or just in the country? Just wondering because I don't really consider OCing in the country that big of a deal. Heck I know of a lot of guys that OC in rural areas and small towns with no problem whatsoever even though its not legal here. What I am really curious about is OC in large towns and cities. If Otasan56 or anybody else has more detailed stories about OCing in suburban/urban areas especially while doing routine errands, going to work etc I'd love to hear them. ( and some of ya'll have already mentioned OCing in town. Thanks! If you want to further expound on it go right ahead )

 

[Mainsail]

I don't know of any place in Washington more urban (and liberal) than downtown Seattle.

This is in Pike Place Market in the heart of the city. I took my girlfriend there on a Saturday when it was crawling with locals, tourists, and foreigners.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

^^ WAY TO GO! I really wish my so called "pro-gun" legislators could see this! They brag about us being the most conservative state, but we sure can't OC like that. This should be an embarassment that Seattle can handle it, but we can't.
Man, that sure does look like fun. Can't wait till its legal here.

 

[Neverwinter]

I was just making the point that I think it is wrong for any branch of a state government to limit constitutional rights just because their state constitution says they can. And yes, I know that some of the S.C. decisions indicate otherwise, and I suppose that this is what lawmakers are using as a basis to restrict rights. I personally think that the S.C. decisions are misinterpreting the 2nd amendment. But I guess that my personal views don't carry as much weight as the S.C.

This is speaking on both sides of the same mouth. The US SC has been acting within the powers given to them by the Constitution; the same Constitution that contains the 2nd amendment.

The Constitution is designed to prefer the decisions of the US SC over yours regarding what is constitutional.

 

[laramiec]

yes u ca

In Wyoming where I live it is not that uncommon to view someone with a holstered firearm. Even in walmart. I have heard of no local stores, restrraunts etc that have banned or stopped anyone that was carrying a firearm openly from bbeing there or entering. I do know that some stores such as Walmart do have rules against it in their national lititure. We also can carry concealed (without a permit)as long as u r a citezen and could quilify for a concealed permit. Fewer victoms in a state like Wyoming.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

The Constitution is designed to prefer the decisions of the US SC over yours regarding what is constitutional.

Sure. Just a slightly humorous observation on my part

This is speaking on both sides of the same mouth. The US SC has been acting within the powers given to them by the Constitution; the same Constitution that contains the 2nd amendment.

True, but lets say the SC decided that a law requiring all African-Americans to carry a special ID to be allowed to vote did not violate the 15th amendment. Is that ruling constitutional? Well a ruling of the SC would make it seem so. But is it really in the spirit of the law? No. Is it really UNconstitutional? Yes. Even though the SC says its OK doesn't make it right. Technically its OK maybe, but the vast majority of Americans would disagree with the SC.
Same here. The 2nd says the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
but then the SC allows the states to impose licenses, fees, waiting periods and background checks on gun owners. Is that infringement? I think so. But the SC thinks otherwise. So technically it is not unconstitutional to have the right to bear arms restricted. But I will work towards pushing the laws back to what I think is the original intent of the 2nd amendment.
Besides, the SC didn't have near as much authority in the early days under the constitution. It wasn't until after Marbury vs. Madison and the marshall years that its power has grown.

 

[Micro]

Open carry is legal in Virginia, too. I have a CHP but open carry on occassion. I've carried various places and, frankly, I don't think most people even notice.

 

[VT Deer Hunter]

Well i dont know about open carry in Vermont, but you can CC with no permit just a drivers license or picture ID. And in New England most of the residents own a least one gun and most people are ok with it except other New Englanders from lets say Boston or Connecticut. Who for most get freaked out by it or dont like it.

 

[seelawyer]

West Virginia is an open carry state. It's uncommon, but when one is carrying its rarely noticed. I have open carried, but for the most part I carry concealed pruusant to applicable law.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Great to hear from you OC guys! I think that most people are too oblivious to notice a properly worn gun. Sounds exactly like what yall have described.
Just curious now, you guys that have been called in MWAG, how do things go with the police? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't bother me all that much, if I had a legal right. Do they come flying in with lights and sirens? Or do they usually already know that you are in the clear and keep it low profile? Most of the LEOs in my area are friendly and reasonable so I don't think it would bother me if they were called in to check me out. So what is your experience with LEOs responding to a call about you?

 

[Mainsail]

When we first started carrying openly there was some high drama. I wore handcuffs a couple times and was arrested and quickly unarrested once. The police were very resistant to the movement. We fixed that by carrying openly. We made phone calls, wrote letters, made legal threats, and kept right on carrying openly. It didn’t take long though, and today it is rare to be harassed.

I was riding my bike through Wright Park in Tacoma with my P239 carried openly. There were several police cars in the park on an unrelated call and someone must have reported me to them, so they approached and asked to see my ID. I asked, “Am I being detained?” He said no, so I politely wished him a nice day and rode away.

One afternoon I was having coffee downtown and decided to walk down to the harbor along the Thea Foss waterway. To get there you have to cross the Bridge of Glass and down the steps that are part of the Museum of Glass. Museum security called the police. The officer who responded demanded my CPL, I asked if I was being detained, he said no….but if I showed him my CPL he would check it to make sure it wasn’t expired. I reminded him that I could leave at any time. His sergeant called him over and told me I was free to leave (which I already knew).

I heard a MWAG call on my scanner when I lived in Tacoma, two cars responded. The first on the scene radioed back that it was “just an open carrier” and cancelled the other car and cleared the call. He never even got out of his car.

If you are carrying openly and not breaking any laws, the police CANNOT detain you. They may try, they may even break the law, but they cannot legally detain a citizen if that citizen hasn’t committed, isn’t presently committing, or about to commit a crime (simplified). If the police detained me for open carry today, I would have a hard time not laughing the whole time; it’s easy money. One of the terms of a settlement is that one cannot reveal there even was a settlement, but I know what I know, and I know police agencies here have paid out when their officers violate the law and the rights of citizens.

 

[HOWARD J]

Open carry is legal in MIchigan.
Here in S/E MI we have a number of groups involved in promoting open carry.
If you don't have a CPL -you may not open carry in your car--you must remove bullets from gun & place in trunk or away from people in vehicle.
You don't see many people open carrying in S/E MI.
In my opinion there are a number of places here in S/E Mi that would be very dangerous to open carry.
I have a CPL & have no interest in open carry. In many areas you will be stopped by police as they do not know that open carry is legal or so they say.
What ever floats your boat---------------

 

[CONNEX 3300]

I have a CPL & have no interest in open carry.

Yeah if we get it legalized here I might OC on occasion, but I will mainly do CC. Of course, the guys that want to OC should have the right to do so. OC will mainly benefit me if the wind blows open my jacket/gun prints etc.

Mainsail, sounds like the OCers in your area owe you one for clearing the way. Keep up the good work.

I'm sure that once OC becomes more normal, the only folks that get harassed are the folks that are showing off. Like a 7.5" nickle plated colt in a fancy western drop loop rig, or a Desert eagle in a shoulder holster. Yeah you have a right to do it, but don't be surprised if it draws more attention than you want. Thats what I like about the pic that Mainsail posted. He isn't wearing tactical gear head to toe, or flaunting his weapon. He is just dressed normal and going about his business, not trying to intimidate anyone. ( atleast it doesn't look like it ) that (in my opinion) is what OC is about.
Anyone else have good or bad encounters with LEOs while OCing?

 

[Malamute]

I used to carry a 4 3/4" nickel Colt when I lived in Az. It did attract some attention, but mainly from people (including a few cops) that thought it was cool and wondered where I got it. Had one enjoyable talk with a County guy that stopped me one dark night on my motorcycle for speeding (broken speedometer). He liked the nickel Colt, and the original 1886 Winchester with high grade wood in the scabbard tied on next to my bedroll. We talked for 20 minutes about guns, hunting, and all sort of things.

Wasn't anything fancy about the rig I carried the Colt in, just a half flap holster on a regular cartridge belt.

Back then, there wasn't a choice of open or concealed, open carry was the only option.

 

[AUGA1]

I live in AZ. I am a CCW but I alternate between open and concealed. As far as other people are concerned, I've had both positive and negative reactions to open carry. I was once carrying in a market and an employee was intrigued by my holster(blackhawk serpa cqc), and we carried on a 10 minute conversation. Another time, i was at a coffee shop holding the door open for a young woman who had her hands full. Instead of a polite "thank you," my gesture was received with a comment along the lines of 'aren't you cool with a gun in your pocket?!' More often than not, there are no issues, but many people are not knowledgeable on firearms. This can make people uncomfortable, and it really isn't necessary to attract undo attention to yourself, IMHO.

SB1108, which allows concealed carry without a permit, was signed in by Gov. Jan Brewer not too long ago. I personally think this is a terrible idea. Many people who buy a hand gun don't have prior knowledge, but just want to be "protected." Don't misconstrue this, but people need to be introduced to gun law if they want to carry. Its like giving a license to someone who has never driven. Knowledge is a far more powerful tool than the pistol.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

SB1108, which allows concealed carry without a permit, was signed in by Gov. Jan Brewer not too long ago. I personally think this is a terrible idea. Many people who buy a hand gun don't have prior knowledge, but just want to be "protected." Don't misconstrue this, but people need to be introduced to gun law if they want to carry. Its like giving a license to someone who has never driven. Knowledge is a far more powerful tool than the pistol.

So you're saying that someone that just buys a gun and instantly applies for a CCW is so much better off than someone that just buys a gun and legally conceals it without a permit?

 

[CONNEX 3300]

SB1108, which allows concealed carry without a permit, was signed in by Gov. Jan Brewer not too long ago. I personally think this is a terrible idea. Many people who buy a hand gun don't have prior knowledge, but just want to be "protected." Don't misconstrue this, but people need to be introduced to gun law if they want to carry. Its like giving a license to someone who has never driven. Knowledge is a far more powerful tool than the pistol

I certainly see your point. It is a valid point and it is the primary concern of many lawmakers here.
But I have to say I would support constitutional-carry regardless.

The 2nd amendment says keeping and bearing arms shall not be infringed. If there is no infrigment whatsoever, there might be a few people who will carry a gun not knowing how to use it properly, or not knowing the laws. Is that safe? No.
But...
The 4th amendment says that we can't be searched without probable cause or warrants. In this case, there will be a few sickos that use the right to privacy to hide bodies of their victims and the other horrendous stuff that goes on in their house. Is it safe to have these guys living under the radar? NO.

SO...
Just because an occasional pervert hides out for years because the LE didn't have probable cause to search, does that mean we should all have our houses searched at random, and have all our conversations recorded without a warrant? Should we have a government GPS on all of our cars? That would certainly enable the police to catch many more dangerous criminals. And so it would probably be safer for us.
But no, most people still value the right to privacy, and are willing to hang on to it even though we aren't as "safe". Its about a right, not about safety.

There will also be some morons whom will use the constitutional carry laws to intimidate people, or will get themselves in legal trouble because they don't know the laws. So should we make ALL gun carryers take government classes, registration, pay fees and do background checks? Then everyone would know what they were doing. And so it would probably be safer for us.
But no, I still value my right to keep and bear arms and I am willing to hang on to it even though I might not be as "safe". Its about a right, not about safety.


And a drivers license is a privilege granted by a state, not a right guaranteed in the constitution.

 

[NavyLCDR]

SB1108, which allows concealed carry without a permit, was signed in by Gov. Jan Brewer not too long ago. I personally think this is a terrible idea. Many people who buy a hand gun don't have prior knowledge, but just want to be "protected." Don't misconstrue this, but people need to be introduced to gun law if they want to carry. Its like giving a license to someone who has never driven. Knowledge is a far more powerful tool than the pistol.

Many states, such as Washington have no training requirement to obtain a concealed carry permit. Many states in addition to Vermont, Alaska, Wyoming and Arizona allow open carry with no license/training required, including WA state. There is no evidence to suggest that there is any increase in danger or incidents due to no training required in the states that don't require it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

There is no evidence to suggest that there is any increase in danger or incidents due to no training required in the states that don't require it.

Put that basic statement behind ANY of the "blood will flow in the streets if....." sort of warnings. They just never turn out to be true. As "pro gun" people I am not sure why some of us continue to repeat that nonsense.