Questions on 580 Series Mini 14

[Paladin7]

I have a few considerations regarding the new 580 Series Mini 14, and would like to get some substantive answers from the folks in the know before I take the plunge… Apologies in advance for the long-winded post…

What I’m looking for is something for a SHTF scenario …

• A compact rifle / carbine that can be moved around easily to cover home defense or defense on the move (in the car, etc.), and hunting/foraging
• An extremely reliable action that can take abuse if necessary (poor ammo, longer intervals between cleaning, ease of getting back into the fight if a jam occurs)
• Availability of key parts (firing pins, springs, operating rod, etc.)
• NY Legality for now, but can be easily updated to high cap mags, collapsible stock and flash supressor later if laws are not being enforced or if moved to a different state
• Easy availabilty of ammo (commercial ammo and handloaded components)

So, please do not respond with the following

• Details on the Ruger updates on the new 580 Series Mini 14, I already understand the new updates
• Blanket statements about it not being accurate, I already understand the accuracy issues

Here is what I like about the platform

• Very compact vs an AR
• M14 like action that doesn’t dump the products of combustion into the action like the AR and is open, so that malfunctions can be cleared easy
• Parts availability
• .223 works for me from an availability and effectiveness standpoint

Here is what I don’t like about the platform

• High price and availability of mags

Questions

• Given what I’m looking for, does the 580 Series Mini fit the bill, and if not what would you recommend?
• For those of you who have one, is the accuracy of the 580 Series acceptable from a combat standpoint when the barrel heats up?
• Thoughts on best approach to acquiring high cap mags?
• Anything I'm not considering but should?

Thanks in advance for your insight...

 

[Spyvie]

Keep in mind not all 580s are the same. The first retooled 580s came off the line with the old style pencil barrels, but most every new Mini out there by now has the new taper barrel.

You're going to get responces from people who formed thier opinions about the Mini years ago, and have not shot one of the new heavier barreled rifles.

I love my 16" NRA Mini, at least as much as my 16" RRA middy. My best 100 yard group with the stock triggered but scoped Ruger is right at 1.5 MOA, and the fat 16" barrel does not seem to be effected much by heat.

www.perfectunion.com is the place for Mini knowledge.

ETA: Ruger sells factory 20 round mags for $40, but I'm having no troubles at all with the 8 steel Promag 20s I bought for $20 each. Some new manufactured Ruger 30 rounders are starting to show up, but they are expensive.

 

[husker]

i have the old pencil barrel and my friend has the new 580 tapper. the 580 is defiantly the better of the 2 hands down. when the SHTF we will both have ar-15. the heat does affect his 580 but it takes 20-30 rounds where mine is affected after about the 3rd rounds or so.MINI its better than nothing at all. and mine never jams from wolf to hornady it eats every thing i throw at it

 

[browningguy]

I have several promag 20 and 30 rounders in steel and polymer and have had no issues with them so far in my 580 series. I also have several AR's and a couple of SU16's, my opinion is that with a little work the Ruger can be accurate enough and it is certainly stout enough to do the job. I got mine in August last year so it's a fairly new one, and from the factory the SU's were more accurate. I am going to try one of the little strut thingy's under the barrel later and see if that helps it any.

 

[hlq]

I have two black and stainless 580's and they both shoot well enough for my needs, to be fair I don't crank through 20 rounds in 10 seconds either.

Ruger is now producing the 30 shot mags, I've seen a few on GB although priced quite high. I'm hoping that at some point supply will catch up with demand and that they can be had for a reasonable price.You can get the 20 shot mags for $29 at times if you watch the online stores.

For the requirements that you have list in your post I feel it would definitely be wroth strong consideration.

 

[Candiru]

I've shot my father's 580-series Ranch Rifle, which has the new thicker barrel. It impressed me so much that I purchased a Mini-14 "Tactical" (man, I hate that term) with a 16" barrel and flash hider. There's been no opportunity yet to shoot the Tactimini, so all shooting commentary pertains to the standard 18" Ranch Rifle unless otherwise noted.

I'll start with the bad stuff. On firing, brass is yanked out like it's an affront to the dignity of the rifle and then airmailed to Canada. Ejected brass usually ended up between fifteen and forty feet away, and bore a small ding from where it bounced off the oprod. This doesn't prevent reloading, as small marks will be ironed out either during sizing or when fired again. However, like all Garand-style actions, special care must be taken during reloading to prevent slamfires: Primary extraction begins while the case is still under pressure, so the shoulder will move forward measurably each time the gun is shot. Preventing slamfires requires resetting the shoulder (not just neck-sizing) and using a small-base sizing die to prevent the brass from binding in the chamber. The reason extraction is so vigorous is because of the fixed ejecter (no getting around that one) and a generous gas bushing designed to permit cycling even when gunked up. There are replacement gas bushings designed to slow things
down; also, the 16-inch Minis may reduce cycling pressure by virtue of the shorter time the bullet stays in the barrel after passing the gas port--that's just a theory, though, as I haven't yet shot one with a 16 inch barrel.

Parts availability is about as good as any other proprietary firearm, which is to say, limited. I've heard that Ruger won't sell certain parts, but can't confirm.

The triggers I've felt have not been very good. They're roughly comparable in quality to a stock AR trigger, but not as good as a Garand or M1A. Mine has very little takeup and a lot of creep, but it's light.

On the good side of things, reliability was perfect. Accuracy was surprisingly good. Using Remington UMC FMJ and shooting from prone without a sling, I could hold ten-shot groups to four inches or better at 100 yards. This tells me that the rifle is 4 MOA or better with relatively inexpensive ammo. (Given my shooting ability, it's probably much better than 4 MOA.) Shooting rapidly enough to make oil smoke off the barrel didn't open up groups or affect point of impact to any noticeable degree; n.b. earlier comments about my shooting ability.

Subjectively, shooting the Mini-14 is a hoot. I shoot an M1A at high power rifle matches, and the Mini is like a smaller, handier, and lighter-recoiling version. It's fast to point, fast to shoot, and displays comparable accuracy within the optimal effective range of .223 Remington. To one accustomed to an M1A, everything is in the right place--even cheekweld and sight picture carry over.

AR-15 fans seem to like bashing the Mini-14, but their arguments all seem to resolve to the fact that it's not an AR-15. To someone who has and likes shooting ARs, there's not really a point to getting a Mini. But for someone who, try as he might, can't muster enthusiasm for ARs that even approaches his affinity for Garand-pattern rifles, a Mini-14 is really the way to go.

Hope that helps.

 

[mgregg85]

The mini is a fine rifle if you aren't going to be doing some kind of fine accuracy shooting. Mine(180 series) has been fine with no jams, even with cheap steel cased wolf ammo. I really haven't done much high volume shooting but I have carried it around and let it get dirty between shootings with no problems.

 

[benEzra]

* A compact rifle / carbine that can be moved around easily to cover home defense or defense on the move (in the car, etc.), and hunting/foraging

* An extremely reliable action that can take abuse if necessary (poor ammo, longer intervals between cleaning, ease of getting back into the fight if a jam occurs)

* Availability of key parts (firing pins, springs, operating rod, etc.)

* NY Legality for now, but can be easily updated to high cap mags, collapsible stock and flash supressor later if laws are not being enforced or if moved to a different state

* Easy availabilty of ammo (commercial ammo and handloaded components)

Reliability: Yes. I owned one for 17 years or so and never had a rifle-related failure. Use Ruger 20-round magazines, though (aftermarket are hit and miss).

If you ever move to a more free state and can put a folder on it, I'd highly recommend the Butler Creek sidefolder.

My main concern would be "availability of key parts." The op rod is pretty much bulletproof (it's not a rod, it's a big thick chunk of steel with a handle), but a spare bolt and firing pin would be nice. Problem is, unless they've changed their policy, Ruger won't sell you parts unless you ship them the bolt and/or rifle to have them fit it. It would be worth checking.

 

[wnycollector]

NY Legality for now, but can be easily updated to high cap mags

Remember that you can legally use a pre-ban mag in ANY post-ban gun. I regularly see used pre-ban ruger 20-30 round mags at gun shows in the $30-40 range. Granted they are not ruger factory mags, but my buddy who owns a series 180 mini has had good luck with john mason 20 and 30 rounders.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I've basically gone all Mini with 2 580 tapered Mini's and a bunch of factory mags.

Try as I might---a scoped AR just never feels right to me and my eyes aren't the best anymore so I'll never be more than in the ballpark accurate with irons.

The Mini is also more robust and reliable---much more tolerant of neglect and abuse--plus the stock feels a lot better to me.

I'm not going to war and my Mini is more than enough to defend my home or neighborhood---if anything breaks--I have a second one.

My AR is going to be trading fodder in the near future.

 

[Spyvie]

My AR is going to be trading fodder in the near future.

I only have one of each. If ever have to get rid of one the two it will be my AR.

 

[FMJMIKE]

I trust both of my Mini-14s.........................I do not trust an AR-15......................

 

[bistrisokol]

How good are the Brownell ($25, 30 rounds) after-market mags for the tapered mini 580 in 223?

How doe the tapered 580 barrel compare to $1000 AR barrel in terms of thickness?

 

[eye5600]

Everything that follows is prefaced by IMHO.

1) Even the oldest, most inaccurate mini-14 was loved by many as a multi-purpose rifle, and is approximately on a par with traditional military requirements for accuracy. Don't take the comparisons with late-model, target rifles too seriously.

It's a bit interesting how trendy gunbroker, et al are. Six months ago, all, or mostly, the minis listed were the target models. Now they are all tactical. I have wondered to myself if the target model with the tuning weight was a market failure as no one would take any Mini-14 seriously as a target rifle.

2) Compare to the alternatives. Mini-14s are available, even if the price looks high. Kel-tecs are hard to find at any price. An used Armalite 180 or 180B is a similar package, but also hard to find. After that, I think you're looking at SKS or AK derivatives.

3) Try to be realistic about what a SHTF scenario might look like. I think that drug and gang violence is illustrative. If they are not after you, the best move is to keep your head down, even if they are shooting up your house. If they are after you, they prefer a short-range, handgun ambush. Although they like to collect an arsenal, it's primarily for defensive purposes.

 

[Spyvie]

How good are the Brownell ($25, 30 rounds) after-market mags for the tapered mini 580 in 223?

How doe the tapered 580 barrel compare to $1000 AR barrel in terms of thickness?

The new Mini barrel is a little thinner than an AR heavy barrel, and thicker than a gov profile. There is no question an AR is a little more accurate than a standard Mini, if you are looking to nail golf balls at 300 yards the choice is clear.

Mini mag discussion at PerfectUnion: http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=105

 

[bistrisokol]

Spyvie

By standard mini do you mean a tapered barrel 580 or a do you mean older minis?
Or how bad is the hot accuracy of the 580 tapered versus an 800-1000 AR?

My aim is to get a new rifle fit for 3 gun with 4 mags that works oob for under $1000.

I have a bias against the ar15 (army basic in 98 and the buffer) and 7.62x39 (200m ballistics) ).
That leaves me with the mini (799$, stainless and available), ar180, the golani (CAI )

Cheers

Bistrisokol

Garand
AMT 1911
SW910

 

[Spyvie]

I was referring to the new barrel profile standard Minis, they are much better than the old pencil barreled Mini 14, but if you're looking for pinpoint accuracy your money is probably better spent on an AR.

The target Mini's will give an AR a run for your money, but still are not better than a basic heavy barreled AR... unless AK like reliabilty is important.