Quick rant on revolvers

[Dr.Zubrato]

Wanted to see what you revolver guys thought about this, and the myth of revolver reliability.

I love revolvers. I have a 686+ and 442 both performance center tuned. They're some of my favorite guns to shoot, because they're damn enjoyable works of delicate art I can shoot. I've put probably over a thousand rounds through the 686, and I recently purchased the 442.

Now, I carry the 442 in my sweatpants from the moment I wake up, to the moment I put on pants with a G19 in the holster.

At any gunstore across this fine nation, there's always a group of guys saying revolvers are the most reliable guns ever made, just pull the trigger again!

....I'm sorry, but having actually shot these guns, ran them hard to where theyre HOT, speed reloads with strips and loaders on the move..... a fraction of what my semi autos had gone through albeit, they've failed to fire in ways that CANNOT be repaired with a tap rack bang, or replicated in a semi auto.

In no particular order:
I've had ejectors unscrew loose, preventing the cylinder from locking into place.
The hammer spring strain screw had become loose from magnum rounds and caused light primer strikes 2-3 times a cylinder. A second strike would fire the rounds.
Spent 38sp shells have become wedged between the ejector star, the frame, and the cylinder on a .357 magnum.
Not allowing the trigger to FULLY reset it's full travel will result in the trigger LOCKING UP until you FULLY release the trigger.
If you do not FULLY release the trigger, the cylinder may spin the next round into alignment, but it did not allow the sear to grab the hammer. No click, just mush.

I have NOT had a bullet back out of the case, to lock up the cylinder, nor have I experienced a primer locking up the cylinder.

However, I have fired a revolver on it's last legs where the cylinder was no longer aligned and would spit mean lead at shooters to the left and right from the forcing cone. I didn't realize until I noticed the stalls of the shooting range had some lead specks embedded and some of our targets were peppered.


HAVING SAID THAT, I love revolvers, and knowing their flaws I would still carry one as a backup.

Revolver training, use, repair, and malfunction diagnosis is a lost art when compared to semi auto drop in parts.

Sorry guys, I just had to rant. I've been looking at j frames in different stores and I always hear they're simple, reliable, and easy to shoot. Of which, they are none. They're complex, less reliable than a bottom feeder, and j frames pack a whallop for how light they are and what we expect them to do with modern hollowpoints.

 

[UncleEd]

You've listed all the ills that can befall a revolver in past and present years and made it sound like they all effect a particular revolver from any generation.

It's like listing all the ills that can befall a car, starting with the Model T and ending with a 2015 production vehicle.

Have all those ills happened to your 686 plus? If they have, it sounds like poor maintenance, poor trigger control, poor just about everything.

 

[CajunBass]

Am I the only person who never asks for advice at a gun store? So what if some salesman or even a buddy says a revolver is more reliable? I know those are sort of blanket statements that aren't meant to be taken literally. Of course a revolver can malfunction. I've seen steel trailer hitch balls malfunction.

 

[silicosys4]

Ok.
Now go shoot your semi's a bunch and get back to us.

As someone who has shot a decent amount through both wheel guns and bottom feeders,
There is no way I'll agree with that.
Every issue you just named is present in semi's, and more.

Revolvers have trigger issues...if used improperly.
Semi's have trigger issues too....if used improperly.

Revolvers can catch brass under the cylinder star. It's rare, and I've never had that issue, but I know it happens. I HAVE had brass catch between the slide and barrel of a semi, between barrel and magazine, etc...many times.
Semi's can catch brass in a myriad of ways, some rendering the gun unusable but, unlike a revolver, is frequently a product of mechanical issues rather than user error.
You can train yourself to avoid the issue in a revolver, or just avoid them altogether by using .357 ammo in a .357 gun... but you can't train yourself to make a poorly tuned or broken extractor work correctly.

I've had screws back out of both semi's and revolvers, it's not a phenomenon exclusive to revolvers. That's why you check screws occasionally, and loctite the ones that back out.

Spring issues causing reliability issues in revolvers? Not exclusive to revolvers. Look into the slide stop spring issues with Kahr polymer semi pistols, for instance.
Magazine springs are also a crucial part of any bottom feeder and frequently cause issues in all kinds of semi's.

Then you have the magazines themselves. A semi is only as strong as its magazine, and I have thrown a few away that have become damaged beyond use, or just plain sucked.
Nothing like having a top notch semi turned into a jamming POS because of a bad mag.
Break or lose your magazine and it doesn't matter how reliable your semi is, it's now a reliable single shot.

When I was learning to reload, I learned that my revolvers are not as sensitive as my semi autos to small deviances in ammo specs. "Fail to feed" is not a phrase I've ever seen used for a revolver.

It's also not true that revolvers need hand fitting for all replacement parts. I've worked on a few, replaced parts, and they dropped right in. It depends on the part and the gun
But,
Some semi's need hand fitted parts too, depending on the part, and the gun.

There is also the issue of a contact shot. Semi's can have issues with contact shots, revolvers don't.
You also can't limp wrist a revolver.

So I'll respectfully have to disagree

Plus I don't have to chase brass with a revolver!

 

[StrawHat]

I have been shooting for a "few" years, let's look at the "problems".

...I've had ejectors unscrew loose, preventing the cylinder from locking into place.
The hammer spring strain screw had become loose from magnum rounds and caused light primer strikes 2-3 times a cylinder. A second strike would fire the rounds...

A firearm is a mechanical device and needs periodic inspection prior to use. On my firearms, I check them before and after use. Some of the screws on my revolvers are secured with a thread sealant to prevent them backing out easily. If the screws on your firearms are backing out, you should alter your maintenance routine to include checking them.

...Spent 38sp shells have become wedged between the ejector star, the frame, and the cylinder on a .357 magnum...

This one is easy. To properly eject spent shells from a revolver, point the muzzle to the sky and actuate the ejector rod, if needed. Brass caught under the star is from not ejecting the brass properly.

...Not allowing the trigger to FULLY reset it's full travel will result in the trigger LOCKING UP until you FULLY release the trigger.
If you do not FULLY release the trigger, the cylinder may spin the next round into alignment, but it did not allow the sear to grab the hammer. No click, just mush...

Seems pretty obvious to me, release the trigger fully on each shot, again, operator error.

...However, I have fired a revolver on it's last legs where the cylinder was no longer aligned and would spit mean lead at shooters to the left and right from the forcing cone. I didn't realize until I noticed the stalls of the shooting range had some lead specks embedded and some of our targets were peppered...

And why would you fire any firearm that was in such disrepair as to need a major overhaul? Proper, routine maintenance will detect problems such as this and they can be repaired prior to someone getting hurt.

I am sorry, but all the problems mention were, in my opinion, caused by operator error.

Ours is a great sport, but it is a sport that demands attention to details. Firearms are not immune to the problems of any mechanical device. They need to be properly maintained and inspected.

Kevin

 

[MrBorland]

I tend to agree with Dr.Z - run them hard enough, and you'll run into reliability issues now and then, well-maintained or not. "Revolver reliability" isn't absolute.

Still, I'm careful to maintain my match guns so as not to invite trouble - the gun's well-maintained, clean & lubed, all screws are tight, the action's not tuned so light that it's on the edge of reliability, and the ammo's reliable (no high primers, squibs, etc).

 

[22-rimfire]

Anything mechanical can break or malfunction. I can't say that I have had all of those problems with revolvers. So, carry two guns if it makes you feel better. For me, that's just a lot of weight considering that it is unlikely you will ever need to use your handgun for a self defense situation.

 

[WestKentucky]

One issue with your list, the spent cases under the star. This won't happen if you aim for the sky and push them out headed downward where gravity pulls them away from the star.

 

[MrBorland]

Chamfering the ejector star greatly increases the chance of a case ending up under the ejector. This one's not a gravity issue - it's the star overriding the case, which will likely get pushed fully back into the chamber when you let go of the ejector. That malfunction will take you a while to clear, so it'd definitely best to avoid it in the first place by leaving the star alone when chamfering the chambers, or, at most, just knock the edge off.

 

[Lord Teapot]

well that's true, but revolvers are still more reliable than semis. case in point; a revolver will fail if the construction of the revolver fails, other than that simply pulling the trigger again will resolve the problem by moving to the next round assuming a DA. semis will fail when a round's construction fails; either with the powder, primer, casing, whatever, something failed in the round and now your semi is a piece of junk until you can fix the issue, which is going to take, at minimum, longer than simply pulling the trigger again.

 

[J-Bar]

Dr. Z:

Please let me know when you want to sell those dang revolvers.

 

[g.willikers]

Real Operators carry big knives, too.
You know, just in case.

 

[Crayfish]

I also notice you only shoot S&W? Just saying, try a better brand of revolver. Smith QC isn't what it used to be. The only issues I have ever had with revo's was S&W. Any gun can have issues however, if you think you have proven that revolvers are equally as pron to failure as autos you are wrong.

 

[PabloJ]

If you want inexpensive, reliable S&W handgun I recommend old Model 469. I bought one in very good condition for $300. With worst 9mm ammo (steel cased Eastern European) there were zero failures and standard magazine held 12 cartridges. It was 100% reliable with both subsonic or +P ammo and any mixture there of. This proved to me that old S&W can hold more than its own against modern SIG, Glock, H&K,....

PS. There was no limp wristing reliability issues even when gun was held loosely and shot with subsonic ammo. I'm firmly convinced that limp wristing is a mythical phenomenon that only occurs when a Glock fan boy shoots the gun and it malfunctions.

 

[BSA1]

Strawhat and I totally agree on this topic.

I've had ejectors unscrew loose, preventing the cylinder from locking into place.

I have never had this happen. If it is happening with a new gun then it is a quality control issue at the factory. With a used gun it could be the result of use causing it work itself loose or someone taking the gun apart at one time and not tightening the rod tight enough.

This is a easy fix. Check all of the screw for tightness occasionally.

The hammer spring strain screw had become loose from magnum rounds and caused light primer strikes 2-3 times a cylinder. A second strike would fire the rounds.

Another problem I have never had happen to me. Sounds like a quality control issue with the factory. Of course a simple check with a screwdriver would prevent misfires from happening.

Spent 38sp shells have become wedged between the ejector star, the frame, and the cylinder on a .357 magnum.

Improper technique by the shooter. Easily solved by training the shooter the proper technique.

Not allowing the trigger to FULLY reset it's full travel will result in the trigger LOCKING UP until you FULLY release the trigger.

Improper technique by the shooter. Easily solved by training the shooter the proper technique.

If you do not FULLY release the trigger, the cylinder may spin the next round into alignment, but it did not allow the sear to grab the hammer. No click, just mush.

Improper technique by the shooter. Easily solved by training the shooter the proper technique.

Shooting magnum ammunition from J-Frame revolvers are hard both on the gun and the shooter.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Wish I could reply individually.
Yes, many of these issues are maintenance and user error. 100% agreed.
These are my experiences from friends' guns, range guns, and my own.
I must say, I have not had these errors on a plinking range, but shooting on the move, taking cover, and under stress. This is where I realized if my technique wasn't perfect, my trigger would lock, turn to mush, and skip rounds. This issue is present in every single s&w revolver hammer or dao and I can replicate it reliably.

As for screws backing out, I'll let you know when I find one on my glock...
Any other semi with loose screws maybe the grips will fall off, your your guns won't fail to fire. Pulling the trigger again will NOT repair a loose hammer strain screw.

Magazine issues: raised on glock. What are those? I have mags I bought used from police trade ins and I'm still beating the crap out of them 6 years later 3-5k per year from time of purchase.

Regarding the operator error issue: when I'm running guns hard in scenarios, blind stages, I'm hyped and I'm sorry but my feet aren't perfectly spaced if I'm knocked on my butt, my breath control isn't perfect, and I'll be damned if my shots arent always touching. This is where errors show their ugly heads.

As for not having to chase brass: you absolutely should be chasing it, and I say that as an avid reloader. Dump it and don't look down to see where it lands.

Failure to chamber? Been there too actually! Not all revolvers have generous cylinder chambers and throats as to shoot lead boolits .002 overbore..

If you want to talk round construction, our revolvers are more sensitive to SEVERE malfs with IMPROPERLY roll crimped ammo, or inadequately. Bullet moves forward, your bullet locks up against the forcing cone and you're out of business.

The only time I've ever had a primer back out was with lighter loads when the pressure of the round firing was enough to expand and swell the brass to the chamber, but not enough to push the head all the way to the breech face, instead only the primer moves that distance and it CAN AND HAS HAPPENED.

I knew I'd get responses to the contrary and I should sell my revolvers, I totally hit the hive with a stick, I get it.

Run your revolvers half as hard as you guys run a semi auto, and let me know how it goes. The issues on my personal guns are not from abuse, stupidity, or even parts breakage.
I maintain my guns regularly, which includes checking timing, lockup, and even cleaning those nasty burn rings off my beautiful stainless revolver. I never shoot ammo that's beyond any reloading manual values, nor do I shoot +p in a gun that isn't rated for it.

For myself, revolvers have two VERY specific roles and the only way I'm parting with them is when someone prys them from my...

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Re: hammer strain screw. This is 3 years after purchase, many countless rounds and happened after about 150-200 357 magnum rounds fired.
That was enough to wiggle it loose.
If you guys like you can continue doing what you're doing. I acknowledge these issues and I LOVE MY REVOLVERS JUST THE SAME.
I just happen not to believe the gun store BS, and learned to look for errors I can prevent and INDUCE.
If I can induce a malfunction, that means I can prevent it.

 

[Kleanbore]

What is the point of all this?

 

[CraigC]

If you guys like you can continue to keep heads in the sand.

Really??? To be blunt, loose screws are your fault. That is an entirely avoidable condition that 'should' be avoided 99.99% of the time with due diligence.

1000rds through a 686? Ok, that would be a slow month for some of the folks here. I've shot tens of thousands of rounds through some guns, at least several thousand through the rest. Total rounds through a total of over 60 revolvers, over the last 28yrs? No telling, it's a lot. The issues you bring up are rare and I don't remember the last time I experienced one. I don't even keep mine clean religiously either. A revolver doesn't care if you limp-wrist. It doesn't care if your ammo is 500fps or 1500fps. It never fails to feed or eject. It never stovepipes. It doesn't care what shape the bullet is. It doesn't care if the bullet is light or heavy, short or long. It doesn't care if the case is a quarter inch shorter than the chamber. It also doesn't become useless if the magazine is lost, because it has none.

I had a transfer bar break on an Abilene, on its second outing. A hand spring break on a high mileage Colt Frontier Scout. A basepin latch issue on a Uberti single action. Sheared the ejector housing screw on a Ruger but the gun was still functional.

 

[MrBorland]

I must say, I have not had these errors on a plinking range, but shooting on the move, taking cover, and under stress. This is where I realized if my technique wasn't perfect, my trigger would lock, turn to mush, and skip rounds.

This is an important point, and one I eluded to earlier. Shooting is a software as well a hardware issue, but at the end of the day, your shooting is what matters - when seriously tested, the results might surprise you.

Casual shooting at the range is akin to taking your car for a nice Sunday drive. Put the pedal to the metal, though, and you'll quickly expose technique issues and weak links in the hardware. "Training" solely by casually shooting on your own terms, then, is a good way to get overconfident in your abilities and in your gear.

I don't take the OP as a bash on revolvers, but more a cautionary note that actually shooting a revolver effectively isn't as error-free as many believe.

FWIW, I've seen a national champ go out of commission with a case under the ejector star. There's a video of Jerry Miculek jamming a Python on his very first shot because he short-stroked the trigger. JM also broke a firing pin at the IRC. I've seen the cylinder fly off the gun numerous times during a reload. I broke my front sight when the muzzle recoiled against a window frame. My gun jammed when the firing pin spring disintegrated and tied up the FP in it's forward position. Stuff happens.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Sorry Kleanbore,

this is half rant with no purpose from hearing revolver reliability is infallible, and half wanted to know how others felt about their revolvers.
Personally, I'm annoyed by XYZ gun is absolutely reliable under any adverse condition and it will never fail.

usually that never is followed by "if you don't a, b, c, d"

Honestly? i was kind of hoping you guys would add on a few other things I should check that routinely go down, especially on J frames seeing as I've had it for such little time, but I wear it 24/7 at home.

ps: bullet profile is definitely an issue with speed strips and speedloaders alike I will still rock the LSWC for that huge meplat, I just go as slowly as I can as quickly as I can.

 

[jmr40]

I've had more revolvers fail to function than semi's. The key is to use decent ammo in any of them,and buy semi's with a reputation for reliability I think that 50+ years ago semi's weren't as reliable. One thing about shooters, they keep repeating old info as if it were Gospel without ever checking the facts. Lots of things change over time.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

What is the point of all this?

That's what I was wondering.

Both are reliable with good manufacturing practices, and proper care from the end user. Both with fail or malfunction eventually with enough use. Use what you like, but which ever you choose, you have to maintain it meticulously, as your life could depend on it.

 

[Malamute]

I'm also of the "most of those things were preventable" opinion, and am a long time revolver fan, though they certainly arent as perfect as some try to maintain. I gently torque the extractor rod on Smiths with a piece of leather around the rod clamped in a vise and several empties in the chambers, then hand torqueing the rod (cylinder out of the gun). I havent used any loc tite on them. I've had the rod loosen on two occasions in about 40 years of shooting them. After adopting the torqueing habit, I havent ever had one loosen.

The mainspring screw. I've heard of them coming loose, but its usually after trying to use the screw to lighten the double action pull. At best, it should be firmly torqued. I've never had one back out.

No doubt guns get hot and can have problems. I dont worry about it in the carry gun role, as I dont carry enough ammo on me to get them that hot. If its a problem, carry a bottle of driking water and pour over it to cool it off. Seriously. It isnt going to hurt the gun. I've poured bottled water down the barrel of a Winchester carbine I had been shooting and was going to take a walk with. It was hot. It cooled off nicely after the water.

Guns are machines. Machines wear. No machine is perfect. Some work better/longer with less problems than others. If people havent ever had a malfunction with a revolver may not be shooting them much. Or they may just be lucky or have one of those special ones that seem to run forever.

All in all, I do think revolvers are reliable when maintained reasonably. They can sit for years and still work so long as the oil doesnt gum up in them. They can be used fairly heaily and still work pretty well for the most part. Autos can work astoundingly well, and many do, with little or no maintenance, for absolutely stupid long periods of time and huge numbers of rounds. They also can choke the first round after cleaning, for no apparent reason. Nobodies figured all this stuff out yet. You just make your choices and do the best you can with them. Modern autos probably do better overall with very heavy use and little or no maintenance.

 

[Tallball]

I have been shooting regularly for over 35 years. I have had a lot more malfunctions with semi-autos than I have with revolvers. Neither one is perfect, but in my experience revolvers are more tolerant of ammo or technique problems.