Random gun opinions from Iraqi Bedouins
- Thread starter MatthewVanitas
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My only real experience is among the nomadic Afar of the Danakil depression in northern Ethiopia. AKs are ubiquitous, and a few SKSs are seen; they are considered inferior. I find that ironic because you would think that accuracy at a distance would be at a premium in the wide-open desert.
My suspicion is that tactics (there is frequent war between the Afar and the Issa, resulting in constant killings and revenge killings) mainly consist of sneaking up on a group of enemy tribesmen and charging into their camp, shooting and chopping with their curved gileh knives. As might be expected, life expectancy is low, and getting shot (or stabbed) is a common way for men to die .
I have also seen one G3, owned by an older Afar who also wore bandoliers of .308 rounds, one MAS-49 and and one Hakim. Pistols are rare, and seen as status symbols - I have seen only a few Makarovs and Tokarevs. Having carried that G3 around for just a little bit in the heat, I sympathize with people who prefer their weapons light.
In general, getting a rifle is part of the passage to manhood, and men own the rifles. I did see one woman with an AK out herding her goats and sheep, and she looked pretty damn tough. A rifle is definitely a status symbol, although a practial one.
Ammunition is expensive - $1.00 a cartridge for 7.62x39, and something like three times as much for .308, which is just leftovers from the 60s and 70s. That is a lot for people living off less than $100 a year. Despite this, they will use any opportunity to rip off a few rounds. They are never without their rifles (a judicious decision, in my opinion, out there), and are very familiar with the mechanical internals.
My understanding is that most people owned older bolt-action rifles, or an occasional NATO weapon, until the Soviet arms lift of the mid-70s, when AKs became cheap and de rigeur. Now an AK with 'the switch' is around $180. Note: it is better to be on the wooden end of one.
My suspicion is that tactics (there is frequent war between the Afar and the Issa, resulting in constant killings and revenge killings) mainly consist of sneaking up on a group of enemy tribesmen and charging into their camp, shooting and chopping with their curved gileh knives. As might be expected, life expectancy is low, and getting shot (or stabbed) is a common way for men to die .
I have also seen one G3, owned by an older Afar who also wore bandoliers of .308 rounds, one MAS-49 and and one Hakim. Pistols are rare, and seen as status symbols - I have seen only a few Makarovs and Tokarevs. Having carried that G3 around for just a little bit in the heat, I sympathize with people who prefer their weapons light.
In general, getting a rifle is part of the passage to manhood, and men own the rifles. I did see one woman with an AK out herding her goats and sheep, and she looked pretty damn tough. A rifle is definitely a status symbol, although a practial one.
Ammunition is expensive - $1.00 a cartridge for 7.62x39, and something like three times as much for .308, which is just leftovers from the 60s and 70s. That is a lot for people living off less than $100 a year. Despite this, they will use any opportunity to rip off a few rounds. They are never without their rifles (a judicious decision, in my opinion, out there), and are very familiar with the mechanical internals.
My understanding is that most people owned older bolt-action rifles, or an occasional NATO weapon, until the Soviet arms lift of the mid-70s, when AKs became cheap and de rigeur. Now an AK with 'the switch' is around $180. Note: it is better to be on the wooden end of one.
RevDisk
Member
There is a few things I'd like to comment, re the UN gun control.
I asked a militia member, out of school, how many weapons they had hidden in the mountains? He laughed and said "Heck, we don't even remember. Hundreds of thousands. We don't need them for the moment"
Another oddity was the number of American flags. They were everywhere, literally. If multiple flags were flying, the US flag was always first or second. The Albanian flag is the unofficial flag of the Albanian Kosovar population. Mind you, this place was 95% Muslim area. Technically, Kosovo has no official standing except that it is a UN controlled zone and the UN forbids them from having an official flag. So, it's not independent of Serbia-Montenegro, but it's not owned by Serbia-Montenegro.
My first week in country, I was blessed by three different mullahs/immans (Islamic priests) walking through the markets. After 9/11 (11 shtatorit), many Albanians asked the US forces to be allowed to go to Afghanistan to kill the Taliban, as they had experience in mountain guerilla warfare. We turned them down, telling them that rebuilding Kosovo should be their first priority.
The Serbs didn't love us as much, but they still respected us. They were upset at the Albanians for existing on 'their' soil, but respected the fact that we'd protect them from the Albanian majority. I did see a good number of US flags flying in the Serbian areas.
It was definitely an odd, odd place. It was an example, though, that not all Muslims are the enemy of the US. And that they dislike the UN as much as most American gunowners.
I asked a militia member, out of school, how many weapons they had hidden in the mountains? He laughed and said "Heck, we don't even remember. Hundreds of thousands. We don't need them for the moment"
Another oddity was the number of American flags. They were everywhere, literally. If multiple flags were flying, the US flag was always first or second. The Albanian flag is the unofficial flag of the Albanian Kosovar population. Mind you, this place was 95% Muslim area. Technically, Kosovo has no official standing except that it is a UN controlled zone and the UN forbids them from having an official flag. So, it's not independent of Serbia-Montenegro, but it's not owned by Serbia-Montenegro.
My first week in country, I was blessed by three different mullahs/immans (Islamic priests) walking through the markets. After 9/11 (11 shtatorit), many Albanians asked the US forces to be allowed to go to Afghanistan to kill the Taliban, as they had experience in mountain guerilla warfare. We turned them down, telling them that rebuilding Kosovo should be their first priority.
The Serbs didn't love us as much, but they still respected us. They were upset at the Albanians for existing on 'their' soil, but respected the fact that we'd protect them from the Albanian majority. I did see a good number of US flags flying in the Serbian areas.
It was definitely an odd, odd place. It was an example, though, that not all Muslims are the enemy of the US. And that they dislike the UN as much as most American gunowners.
OP
OP
MatthewVanitas
Member
Update on Iraqis:
Recently met with some Iraqi security personnel for some random organizational meetings at one of their facilities. Lots of random formalities, drinking tea, and ubiquitous side conversations. Lunch was also interesting, in keeping with the Bedouin customs: gigantic (3' diameter) dishes of seasoned rice (with those little oil-fried noodles Central Asians like), with huge hunks of sheep carnage on top, with a cooked skull prominently featured. Side-dish of okra gumbo, and another of chopped cucumber and tomato. Food was scooped up with the fingers, squeezed into a ball, and dropped into the mouth. I'm not a picky guy, but I've never been big into digging around something's skull for scraps of meat (and have had the same dish, of bovine nature, on the opposite side of the world). I tried to aim for the rice and gumbo, which was very tasty indeed.
But I digress. While chatting with one officer, I inquired as to the make of his pistol. He was carrying a Russian Makarov (with the reddish Bakelite grips). He and his coworker referred to it as an "8.5mm Makarov". I assume they call it that because the actual cartridge is smaller (though wider) than 9mm NATO, so it seems practical to just lower the number to indicate a shorter cartridge. No idea how widespread that misdesignation is. He told me that he bought the Mak out of pocket for $400. I didn't have the heart to tell him that Bulgarian Maks run $120 in the U.S.
He was very impatient to receive a Glock 19, like neighboring units were getting. He shared the usual confusion as to whether it's an "Australian" or "Austrian" pistol. He was particularly interested in obtaining a laser for his future Glock. I told him I'd look up a website for him that sold them, and he could look it on the Net. As I understand it, the Internet is present and highly desired in much of the Middle East.
That got me to thinking: with the Glock 19 apparently becoming the official sidearm of thousands upon thousands of Iraqis, there's a golden opportunity hear for accessory dealers. The New Iraqi Dinar is getting stronger all the time, which makes it easier and easier for Iraqis to afford foreign products. Iraqi officers, in particular, love anything fancy that will impress other people, and having some tacti-cool doodads for their sidearms definitely falls in that category.
I have no particular inclination to dabble in such marketing opportunities, and would probably get into legal trouble, but I might get bored enough to drop Lone Wolf a line throwing the idea out.
Someday soon one might be able to wander through a Basra souq and hear the merchants call: "Get your Fobus holsters! Adjustable tension IWB! Lasermax internals, fresh off the boat!"
-MV
Recently met with some Iraqi security personnel for some random organizational meetings at one of their facilities. Lots of random formalities, drinking tea, and ubiquitous side conversations. Lunch was also interesting, in keeping with the Bedouin customs: gigantic (3' diameter) dishes of seasoned rice (with those little oil-fried noodles Central Asians like), with huge hunks of sheep carnage on top, with a cooked skull prominently featured. Side-dish of okra gumbo, and another of chopped cucumber and tomato. Food was scooped up with the fingers, squeezed into a ball, and dropped into the mouth. I'm not a picky guy, but I've never been big into digging around something's skull for scraps of meat (and have had the same dish, of bovine nature, on the opposite side of the world). I tried to aim for the rice and gumbo, which was very tasty indeed.
But I digress. While chatting with one officer, I inquired as to the make of his pistol. He was carrying a Russian Makarov (with the reddish Bakelite grips). He and his coworker referred to it as an "8.5mm Makarov". I assume they call it that because the actual cartridge is smaller (though wider) than 9mm NATO, so it seems practical to just lower the number to indicate a shorter cartridge. No idea how widespread that misdesignation is. He told me that he bought the Mak out of pocket for $400. I didn't have the heart to tell him that Bulgarian Maks run $120 in the U.S.
He was very impatient to receive a Glock 19, like neighboring units were getting. He shared the usual confusion as to whether it's an "Australian" or "Austrian" pistol. He was particularly interested in obtaining a laser for his future Glock. I told him I'd look up a website for him that sold them, and he could look it on the Net. As I understand it, the Internet is present and highly desired in much of the Middle East.
That got me to thinking: with the Glock 19 apparently becoming the official sidearm of thousands upon thousands of Iraqis, there's a golden opportunity hear for accessory dealers. The New Iraqi Dinar is getting stronger all the time, which makes it easier and easier for Iraqis to afford foreign products. Iraqi officers, in particular, love anything fancy that will impress other people, and having some tacti-cool doodads for their sidearms definitely falls in that category.
I have no particular inclination to dabble in such marketing opportunities, and would probably get into legal trouble, but I might get bored enough to drop Lone Wolf a line throwing the idea out.
Someday soon one might be able to wander through a Basra souq and hear the merchants call: "Get your Fobus holsters! Adjustable tension IWB! Lasermax internals, fresh off the boat!"
-MV
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