range experience today, my "problem" guns

[thunderbyrd]

i haven't been on this site for several months, health problems with my wife and myself have diverted my attention away from firearms.

so today i went to the range and fired off a few for the 1st time since about November. i took 3 guns: charter arms undercover, RIA 1911, and my CZ 75B. i have had some problems with these three so i wanted to see what was what with them, if i could.

the charter arms is a snub 38 that i impulse bought last fall. when i took it out to shoot it when i 1st got it, i was having a light strike failure to fire 1-2 out of every cylinder i shot. i hadn't shot it again until today. before i took it out today, i cleaned it up some and oiled it up, copious oil on every moving part i could reach. i put 25 rounds through it and it fired every round! i was very happy. so the only thing that was wrong is that i didn't lube it, before. my apologies to Charter Arms for thinking bad thoughts about them! but accuracy is another matter. bullets were going everywhere. i do not know what kind of accuracy to expect out of a one inch barrel with a rough trigger.

next is my RIA 1911, the basic military type model. i love this gun and it has been a massive PITA the whole time i've owned it. i have taken it to the range and some days it screws up all over the place. and some days it shoots just fine. i have been pretty faithful to clean it and oil it everytime i shoot it. today, it was magnificent! i used the magazine from my kimber. i think the mag that came with this gun is crap and that's why i've had so much trouble with it. today i put about 35-40 rounds through it with a big fat ZERO malfunctions. this is the first time i have fired this firearm and never had a screwup of some kind. i have ordered some wilson combat mags and i think it will make all the difference. or maybe i should order Kimber mags?

next was my CZ 75B. i said "problem" guns above, but the ONLY problem with the CZ is that i shoot it about one inch low and 3-4 inches left. mechanically and functionally, there is nothing at all wrong with this excellent pistol. Man, what a fine firearm. i guess i need to adjust that rear site, but i hate to do anything to it. maybe the low and left is all me. i have put about 200 rds through it and it has never malfunctioned in any way. i just haven't been able to put the lead exactly where i want it to go, yet.

so, i left the range with a smile today!

 

[JoeHenry]

I like Wilson mags. That’s all I shoot in my 1911 45’s. Can’t say much about the groups you are getting with your Charter arms. I once had an old one that wasn’t to bad. The CZ75B is a very nice pistol. Have some one (known to be a good shot) shot your CZ and see if he gets the same results. I had one that was dead nuts accurate.

 

[chicharrones]

Regarding Charter Arms, they currently have two different hammer springs they install in their centerfire snubbies (2" barrels, by the way). A blue painted spring or a green painted spring.

The blue spring is the lighter of the two. Many folks with light strikes have moved from the blue to the green.

 

[lightman]

I'm glad that you and your Wife's health problems allowed you to get out. Hopefully you both are on the mend!

It sounds like you had a good day at the range. And yeah, proper lube is important.

 

[Riomouse911]

@thunderbyrd; I hope you are both feeling good enough to go shoot a few more times soon. IMHO, nothing is worse than injury or illness keeping one from something they like doing.

I ordered a few Kimber magazines from Gun Mag Warehouse for my .45 and 9mm 1911’s and each one has been flawless to date. They may start running sales on them again, give GMW a look-see if you are happy with the Kimber mags.

I think I answered your CZ question yesterday, or it was a similar one (I can’t recall, I am really tired right now*). I have a frustrating tendency to anticipate recoil when shooting slow and will chunk a shot low and left when I contract my whole shooting hand and milk the grip.

*I am currently trying to get the family home from 22 days in Australia/South Pacific, sitting in the Brisbane airport after being stranded at the airport in Sydney overnight due to a mechanical issue with the Qantas plane we had just boarded. It’s already been a long day, and we have 15 hours of flying and almost two hours of driving still to go before I walk in the door.

I get how antsy you must have been while recovering. For the last twenty five days I have a brand new 6” S&W Model 617 sitting at my FFL that I am dying to pick up and go shoot. Hopefully we get back by 9 tomorrow night so I can grab it and shoot it on Monday.

May you both return to feeling 100% soon!

Stay safe.

 

[thunderbyrd]

Rio, i had a 617, 6", and i couldn't hit a barn with that gun. i traded it along. a problem i had was light strikes. but that one turned out to be me. i was not letting the trigger return all the way.

i hope you all get home safely and quickly.

 

[thunderbyrd]

ok, yet another range story, this one a tale of woe. went back yesterday. took the same RIA 1911 i shot the other day - 35-40 rds through it then and not a hiccup. i brought it home the other day, cleaned and lubed. took it back yesterday with the same mag and it just puked all over the place. out of 50 rds, i had 6 failure to go into battery and one failure to feed. that has been the story with that pistol since i bought it. (bought it new from Rural King) one session at the range and it does very well, the next, dud. i would say i've put at least 250 through it. so, i have decided to trade this one along. too frustrating.

but i was very happy with my SA Ronin 9mm. that one does what it's supposed to.

 

[hutch51]

next is my RIA 1911, the basic military type model. i love this gun and it has been a massive PITA the whole time i've owned it. i have taken it to the range and some days it screws up all over the place. and some days it shoots just fine. i have been pretty faithful to clean it and oil it everytime i shoot it. today, it was magnificent! i used the magazine from my kimber. i think the mag that came with this gun is crap and that's why i've had so much trouble with it. today i put about 35-40 rounds through it with a big fat ZERO malfunctions. this is the first time i have fired this firearm and never had a screwup of some kind. i have ordered some wilson combat mags and i think it will make all the difference. or maybe i should order Kimber mags?

so, i left the range with a smile today!

Two RIA GI 1911s. One was a little problematic in the slide didn't always lock back on empty and occasionally the follower would ride above the slide stop and I would have to rip out the magazine.

Wilson 47C magazines stopped that. Use them in a Ruger SR1911 and Colt Government 1911.

 

[Zahn]

I'm glad you are able to get back to the range, and I hope your wife's and your health issues are getting better.

I have a Kimber Arctic LW 1911 that is like your RIA - works great one trip to the range, and it's flaky as can be the next time. Frustrating. And annoying, because I really like the looks and features of my Kimber. I will say, the Kimber magazines work great in my other 1911's. I don't know who makes them, but their quality and function are comparable to my Wilson magazines.

I'm actively shopping for a CZ 75B myself.

 

[thunderbyrd]

I'm glad you are able to get back to the range, and I hope your wife's and your health issues are getting better.

I have a Kimber Arctic LW 1911 that is like your RIA - works great one trip to the range, and it's flaky as can be the next time. Frustrating. And annoying, because I really like the looks and features of my Kimber. I will say, the Kimber magazines work great in my other 1911's. I don't know who makes them, but their quality and function are comparable to my Wilson magazines.

I'm actively shopping for a CZ 75B myself.

i think you'll really be happy with the CZ! i have a kimber that shoots straight, good accuracy but will fail to go into battery once out of two mags.

 

[LiveLife]

same RIA 1911 i shot the other day - 35-40 rds through it then and not a hiccup. i brought it home the other day, cleaned and lubed. took it back yesterday with the same mag and it just puked all over the place. out of 50 rds, i had 6 failure to go into battery and one failure to feed. that has been the story with that pistol since i bought it. (bought it new from Rural King) one session at the range and it does very well, the next, dud. i would say i've put at least 250 through it. so, i have decided to trade this one along. too frustrating.

So when it was running without a hiccup, why did you mess things up by cleaning it? ... Just kidding ... Just kidding.

I would say 250 rounds is still within the "break in" period for a "rough" 1911 (I usually shoot several hundred rounds of jacketed/plated ammunition to "burnish" the barrel and check parts to smooth things out for reliable function). Do you have failure to go into battery/FTF issue with just that magazine or with other magazines?

When people have 1911 feeding/chambering issues, I suggest they try my Chip McCormick Power Mag or Wilson Combat 47D magazines and presto!, most problems go away. I also check the strength of recoil spring by pointing cleared pistol muzzle up and pulling back on slide and slowly return back within 1/2" of full battery. When I release the slide, slide should positively go into full battery readily and if it doesn't, I will check for hang ups and/or suspect recoil spring. I pack spare Wolff/Wilson Combat recoil springs (16# and 18.5#) and swapping out depending on whether they are shooting full power factory or lighter target loads, return to full battery issue is often resolved and felt recoil/muzzle flip is much improved.

 

[thunderbyrd]

ladies and gentlemen, i solved the RIA problem once and for all today. i traded it for a brand new SA mil spec. i like the performance of my 9mm ronin, so we'll see how this goes. will probably shoot it tomorrow.

 

[starling]

I wouldnt adjust that sight on the CZ yet. That sounds like it may be trigger control. Its possible it was goofed up at the factory but I doubt it coming from CZ being a top tier manufacturer with excellent QC.

RIA 1911?? Maybe try a GI feedlip magazine if you shoot FMJ. Checkmate makes them. Hard to tell whats going on unless I had it in my hands. Im not sure who is making magazines for Kimber anymore. Chip McCormick, Mecgar, and Metalform all have at some point from what I know. Wilson makes good stuff obviously so you should be fine. Anything else starts acting up its no big deal as there is a never ending aftermarket for a basic 1911.

Charter arms can be all over the place. Accuracy might be you if you are shooting DAO. Check to see if the bullets are keyholing. Also check the crown. Light strikes try a heavier spring (going to increase trigger pull though). Its probably going to be something you have to dial in an tinker with a little. My Charter Undercover is fantastic and accurate but its very old. I think they are solid revolvers for their price range but anything budget priced is going to at least have the possibility of needing to be tuned. Biggest thing to watch out for on the new ones seems to be the transfer bar breakage. Trigger can be smoothed up pretty nicely. I like them for the most part. The pittbulls tempt me more than anything but I have yet to pick one up. All of the newer ones I have shot have worked fine but they were not mine and I tend to shoot revolvers in Single action. There is a nice member at my range that likes them and reworks to his satisfaction. I swap pistols with him once in a while just to try different things out. He loves those revolvers.

I think you are in pretty good shape with your "problem" guns. It doesnt sound like anything major going on. Shouldnt be that hard to get things dialed in.

 

[SimonRL]

When you are having such a broad range of consistency with three different guns I think you have to look in the mirror. I agree with the Wilson Combat 47D or Chip McCormick mags for the 1911. WC mags are all I run in my 1911s. At least that way you eliminate a potential problem area. I can’t speak to the Charter Arms gun, but the CZ75B is almost certainly you. You could be the one in 500 whose sights are genuinely off, but low and left you know it’s not the gun. Here’s the thing - you’re shooting three guns with wildly different triggers. I’ve never been a fan of that big banana curved trigger on the CZ, but we know they are capable of fantastic accuracy. As you’ve been off the scene and had health issues perhaps it would be best to concentrate on one gun. Get your mojo back with it and then introduce another. I hope the situation at home works out for the positive. Take your time with your guns and enjoy your range time.

 

[LiveLife]

i solved the RIA problem ... traded it for a brand new SA mil spec ... will probably shoot it tomorrow.

Congrats and keep us posted with a range report.

 

[thunderbyrd]

last time i had the Charter Arms at the range, i bench shot 5 rounds at about 12 feet. it shot all 5 in a group about the size of a silver dollar. so the "problem" with the gun is the operator.

 

[starling]

lasty time i had the Charter Arms at the range, i bench shot 5 rounds at about 12 feet. it shot all 5 in a group about the size of a silver dollar. so the "problem" with the gun is the operator.

Thats good news then. I was afraid it might be keyholing or some other sort of defect in the actual barrel. Maybe as your health improves you can look at stoning some of the internals for the rough trigger. Ive seen some pretty rough internals on a few charters through the years that responded well to tuning/polishing. They get an aweful amount of trashtalk online but I have always liked them. Its just a matter of time until I get into the bulldogs Ive just been holding back until I was confident they have gotten the extraction system dialed in. They are a little different to work on because of the frame construction but nothing too crazy. Heres a short clip from the AGI video that explains a little. Theres a few videos on youtube where people work on these. Ive detail stripped mine and cleaned a few times to inspect everything. Never had any major issues getting things back together. My undercover is from the late 60s or early 70s though so it looks a little different from current offerings

 

[buck460XVR]

i have ordered some wilson combat mags and i think it will make all the difference. or maybe i should order Kimber mags?

I tend to think the Wilson's are everybit as well made as the Kimber's. From what I understand, Kimber buys theirs from other manufacturers (have heard McCormick as well as Checkmate), but still are high quality. All I ever buy as aftermarket are a Wilson.

I would say 250 rounds is still within the "break in" period for a "rough" 1911

....I have to agree. Years ago, it was claimed that Kimber would not even take a look at a new gun under warranty that would FTF, until after 500 rounds.