Thernlund
Member
I originally posted about this pistol in this thread. See there for more pics.
At the beginning of September 2007 I purchased an HK USP Compact Tactical with a Gemtech Blackside suppressor. Last week (December 5th) my Form 4 came back and I picked up the suppressor. The total cost with the tax stamp was just under $2,000.
Initial impressions (look and feel)
The softside case is sexy I must say. There is a place for the pistol, pouches for two mags, a sleeve for the suppressor, and another pouch that I'm not sure what it's for. It seems handcuffs would fit in it, so maybe that's it. The interior is Velcro allowing you to move all of the items around to your liking. When I picked up the suppressor, one of the first things I did was reorganize the case.
Overall, it's pretty cool I think.
The pistol feels pretty good in my hand. It's certainly no P220, but the size and shape is reasonably comfortable.
The suppressor goes on easy enough, but until I got used to it I routinely tried to screw the suppressor on "backwards". That is to say, the threads are reverse so attaching the suppressor in a way that feels natural doesn't work. After attaching and removing it enough times I began to get it right without thinking about it.
The suppressor isn't overly heavy. In fact, it's pretty light. A buddy of mine picked it up and his first reaction was, "Wow. I thought this would be heavier." Anyway, as the suppressor is relatively light, it does not make the pistol feel inordinately front heavy. Aiming and shooting feel fairly comfortable.
The sights on this pistol are standard 3-dot white. They aren't high-rise sights and so don't rise above the suppressor. Before I had fired this pistol I felt that they were close enough to the top edge of the suppressor get reasonably accurate results.
This idea of "close enough" fell apart rather quickly once I fired the pistol. More on that momentarily.
Non-suppressed performance
Firing this pistol without the suppressor attached was a joy. It is accurate, feels good, and there were no malfunctions through 300 rounds. I can easily say that I am very pleased with the non-suppressed performance. Below is a target I shot at 15 yards (45 feet). 8 rounds, about 1 round per second, standing in a modified Weaver stance.
Suppressed performance
The suppressed performance of the pistol was rather lack-luster. There were numerous feel problems and the accuracy was not what I'd have liked. Stove-pipe jams occurred about once per 10 to 12 rounds on average, although I was able to zip through a full 8 round mag in rapid fire without an issue twice. Below is a picture of a common jam I experienced.
Rounds that did successfully eject occasionally hit my nose or forehead. Quite a few times the spent case ejected and came to rest on my firing hand (right hand) or wrist, causing me to flinch to get the hot case off me.
Last round hold open was just about non-existent. I regularly found myself pulling the trigger on an empty chamber if I had not counted or had miscounted rounds fired. I found that I could get the slide to hold open if I jerked my wrist just right as the pistol was fired, but this was still unreliable and affected what accuracy there was.
Accuracy was not good. I am unable to determine whether or not this is due to the lack of a full sight picture because of the suppressor, or some other reason. Shots at 15 yards were consistently low and to the right by about 8 to 10 inches.
There was no evidence of bullet strikes on or in the suppressor. I did find that I could somewhat compensate for the low-right hits and get rounds in the 9 ring, but it was inconsistent and eventually became frustrating.
I fired about 200 rounds through the pistol with the suppressor attached. After about 60 rounds I could actually see the heat coming off the suppressor as I aimed. This further affected the sight picture as the heat distorted the target. When tightening the suppressor I found that I had to use my shirt to cover my hand, and even then it burned pretty good. Also, as the suppressor got hotter there was more and more smoke. A couple of times I was able to blow solid smoke rings by puffing directly into the open chamber. I had the thing billowing smoke at one point.
Suppression/noise reduction
Like many people I occasionally called a suppressor a "silencer". Even before using one I understood that the report of the firearm was not "silenced" and would still be audible. I even knew that Hollywood had it wrong and that the report would be louder than often depicted. I've seen YouTube videos of suppressed firearms and based on what I could glean from those videos the term "silencer" still seemed reasonable. This was all about to change.
After we finished up at the range, my buddy and I drove a good long ways out into the middle of nowhere to find out what suppression was all about. In this experiment the suppressor was fired dry. I attached the suppressor, loaded a mag, chambered, aimed, and pulled the trigger. First words from my mouth... "J***S CH**ST!!"
I can now report to you all that the term "silencer" is a complete and total misnomer, and that I will never call it that again. There was nothing that could ever be considered "silent" about this experiment. The muzzle report is reduced by a GREAT deal, and no hearing protection is needed. But in order to understand what "reduced by a great deal" means, you really have to know what a .45 sounds like normally. Your ears will ring and it will be painful. Not a pleasant experience at all. This is not the case when suppressed. I pulled the trigger several times without concern for my hearing. It didn't hurt, and my ears didn't even come close to ringing. But I can tell you that it was not quiet at all.
The best approximation I can make is with a standard rubber party balloon. Blow it up to its absolute limit, tie it off, hold it about a foot from your face, and pop it. That's what a suppressed handgun sounds like. If you were to fire it in a moderately crowded parking lot or in a park with others around (as is often depicted in movies), people will notice even from several hundred yards away and will likely call the cops (as is never depicted in movies).
In a closed room such as an apartment or a hotel room, suppression is enough that most people in adjacent rooms would likely mind their own business. As well, shots fired indoors would likely not be recognized as "shots" from outside. In this regard, suppression is adequate.
Summary
Am I still happy with it? Yeah. I don't regret buying it. It's totally sexy and cool as hell. The non-suppressed performance was awesome, and even suppressed it would be reasonably accurate inside of 10 feet.
I was disappointed by the feed problems, but I guess I'm not all that surprised. Put what is essentially a weight on the end of the barrel and these things will happen. I feel like if I used hotter loads (like +P or +P+) it would be pretty reliable. Or maybe even if I got a lighter weight recoil spring. I looked at each jam closely and it appeared as if the slide was not coming back hard/far enough during recoil. This was evidenced by the weak ejection of spent casings. They often hit my wrist, arm, and grazed my face from time to time.
I also found that as the pistol got dirtier it jammed more frequently. This jives with the above in that if the slide is not moving rearward hard enough, it will only get worse as it gets dirtier and, effectively, less lubricated. For what it's worth, the pistol has never been cleaned. This range session was done with the pistol "right off the rack" and "straight out of the box". I plan to give it a thorough cleaning and try it out again next weekend. We'll see how that goes.
The suppression wasn't what I expected at all. There is however no doubt in my mind that the muzzle report was reduced considerably. I have had the "pleasure" of firing a Colt Commander without hearing protection. Not fun at all. It hurt and my ears were ringing for hours. This pistol is roughly similar to a Commander in size. Firing suppressed without hearing protection was no problem at all. But as I said, it startled me as to how loud it still was. I want to try firing it wet one of these days to see if that helps. I'm told Vaseline works well so I'll probably use that. I may also try water and regular oil. I'll be sure to post with results if I ever do this.
So there's that kiddies. Hope you enjoyed it! I know I did.
-T.
At the beginning of September 2007 I purchased an HK USP Compact Tactical with a Gemtech Blackside suppressor. Last week (December 5th) my Form 4 came back and I picked up the suppressor. The total cost with the tax stamp was just under $2,000.
Initial impressions (look and feel)
The softside case is sexy I must say. There is a place for the pistol, pouches for two mags, a sleeve for the suppressor, and another pouch that I'm not sure what it's for. It seems handcuffs would fit in it, so maybe that's it. The interior is Velcro allowing you to move all of the items around to your liking. When I picked up the suppressor, one of the first things I did was reorganize the case.
Overall, it's pretty cool I think.
The pistol feels pretty good in my hand. It's certainly no P220, but the size and shape is reasonably comfortable.
The suppressor goes on easy enough, but until I got used to it I routinely tried to screw the suppressor on "backwards". That is to say, the threads are reverse so attaching the suppressor in a way that feels natural doesn't work. After attaching and removing it enough times I began to get it right without thinking about it.
The suppressor isn't overly heavy. In fact, it's pretty light. A buddy of mine picked it up and his first reaction was, "Wow. I thought this would be heavier." Anyway, as the suppressor is relatively light, it does not make the pistol feel inordinately front heavy. Aiming and shooting feel fairly comfortable.
The sights on this pistol are standard 3-dot white. They aren't high-rise sights and so don't rise above the suppressor. Before I had fired this pistol I felt that they were close enough to the top edge of the suppressor get reasonably accurate results.
This idea of "close enough" fell apart rather quickly once I fired the pistol. More on that momentarily.
Non-suppressed performance
Firing this pistol without the suppressor attached was a joy. It is accurate, feels good, and there were no malfunctions through 300 rounds. I can easily say that I am very pleased with the non-suppressed performance. Below is a target I shot at 15 yards (45 feet). 8 rounds, about 1 round per second, standing in a modified Weaver stance.
Suppressed performance
The suppressed performance of the pistol was rather lack-luster. There were numerous feel problems and the accuracy was not what I'd have liked. Stove-pipe jams occurred about once per 10 to 12 rounds on average, although I was able to zip through a full 8 round mag in rapid fire without an issue twice. Below is a picture of a common jam I experienced.
Rounds that did successfully eject occasionally hit my nose or forehead. Quite a few times the spent case ejected and came to rest on my firing hand (right hand) or wrist, causing me to flinch to get the hot case off me.
Last round hold open was just about non-existent. I regularly found myself pulling the trigger on an empty chamber if I had not counted or had miscounted rounds fired. I found that I could get the slide to hold open if I jerked my wrist just right as the pistol was fired, but this was still unreliable and affected what accuracy there was.
Accuracy was not good. I am unable to determine whether or not this is due to the lack of a full sight picture because of the suppressor, or some other reason. Shots at 15 yards were consistently low and to the right by about 8 to 10 inches.
There was no evidence of bullet strikes on or in the suppressor. I did find that I could somewhat compensate for the low-right hits and get rounds in the 9 ring, but it was inconsistent and eventually became frustrating.
I fired about 200 rounds through the pistol with the suppressor attached. After about 60 rounds I could actually see the heat coming off the suppressor as I aimed. This further affected the sight picture as the heat distorted the target. When tightening the suppressor I found that I had to use my shirt to cover my hand, and even then it burned pretty good. Also, as the suppressor got hotter there was more and more smoke. A couple of times I was able to blow solid smoke rings by puffing directly into the open chamber. I had the thing billowing smoke at one point.
Suppression/noise reduction
Like many people I occasionally called a suppressor a "silencer". Even before using one I understood that the report of the firearm was not "silenced" and would still be audible. I even knew that Hollywood had it wrong and that the report would be louder than often depicted. I've seen YouTube videos of suppressed firearms and based on what I could glean from those videos the term "silencer" still seemed reasonable. This was all about to change.
After we finished up at the range, my buddy and I drove a good long ways out into the middle of nowhere to find out what suppression was all about. In this experiment the suppressor was fired dry. I attached the suppressor, loaded a mag, chambered, aimed, and pulled the trigger. First words from my mouth... "J***S CH**ST!!"
I can now report to you all that the term "silencer" is a complete and total misnomer, and that I will never call it that again. There was nothing that could ever be considered "silent" about this experiment. The muzzle report is reduced by a GREAT deal, and no hearing protection is needed. But in order to understand what "reduced by a great deal" means, you really have to know what a .45 sounds like normally. Your ears will ring and it will be painful. Not a pleasant experience at all. This is not the case when suppressed. I pulled the trigger several times without concern for my hearing. It didn't hurt, and my ears didn't even come close to ringing. But I can tell you that it was not quiet at all.
The best approximation I can make is with a standard rubber party balloon. Blow it up to its absolute limit, tie it off, hold it about a foot from your face, and pop it. That's what a suppressed handgun sounds like. If you were to fire it in a moderately crowded parking lot or in a park with others around (as is often depicted in movies), people will notice even from several hundred yards away and will likely call the cops (as is never depicted in movies).
In a closed room such as an apartment or a hotel room, suppression is enough that most people in adjacent rooms would likely mind their own business. As well, shots fired indoors would likely not be recognized as "shots" from outside. In this regard, suppression is adequate.
Summary
Am I still happy with it? Yeah. I don't regret buying it. It's totally sexy and cool as hell. The non-suppressed performance was awesome, and even suppressed it would be reasonably accurate inside of 10 feet.
I was disappointed by the feed problems, but I guess I'm not all that surprised. Put what is essentially a weight on the end of the barrel and these things will happen. I feel like if I used hotter loads (like +P or +P+) it would be pretty reliable. Or maybe even if I got a lighter weight recoil spring. I looked at each jam closely and it appeared as if the slide was not coming back hard/far enough during recoil. This was evidenced by the weak ejection of spent casings. They often hit my wrist, arm, and grazed my face from time to time.
I also found that as the pistol got dirtier it jammed more frequently. This jives with the above in that if the slide is not moving rearward hard enough, it will only get worse as it gets dirtier and, effectively, less lubricated. For what it's worth, the pistol has never been cleaned. This range session was done with the pistol "right off the rack" and "straight out of the box". I plan to give it a thorough cleaning and try it out again next weekend. We'll see how that goes.
The suppression wasn't what I expected at all. There is however no doubt in my mind that the muzzle report was reduced considerably. I have had the "pleasure" of firing a Colt Commander without hearing protection. Not fun at all. It hurt and my ears were ringing for hours. This pistol is roughly similar to a Commander in size. Firing suppressed without hearing protection was no problem at all. But as I said, it startled me as to how loud it still was. I want to try firing it wet one of these days to see if that helps. I'm told Vaseline works well so I'll probably use that. I may also try water and regular oil. I'll be sure to post with results if I ever do this.
So there's that kiddies. Hope you enjoyed it! I know I did.
-T.
