Kachok
Member
If you cannot afford $13 for a box of ammo mabey you should take up a cheaper hobby then shooting, because that is uber cheap by ammo standards, heck I can hardly find 223 that cheap nowadays.
Rank These Calibers (As Objectively as Possible)
- Thread starter The_Armed_Therapist
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meanmrmustard
Member
Whoa, where are you getting it THAT cheap? Unless you're not taking into account shipping, anything online or at my LGS is a small fortune.
Kachok
Member
I bought in bulk from ammotogo, good service and that Prvi ammo is some pretty good stuff, better then the Winchester and Federal crud that I just tried. I took one deer with it just to see how well their soft point works and I was impressed, one shot the deer staggerd and fell over dead with nasty damage to the heart and lungs. Much more then you would expect from a 2500fps bullet.
meanmrmustard
Member
Yeah, I don't do the online thing if possible. Every time I find an obscure rifle cartridge I need (those not Walmart friendly) I look to the ammo carriers on the web. I find said cartridge for a phenomenal price...up until they add in shipping. After that, I save anywhere from $5-$10 per like-volumes box in buying locally. Doesn't save me the frustration of the the idiot owner though.
Kachok
Member
I quit worrying about what ammo Wal-mart carries a while back, mainly because what they carry is sub-standard stuff, Power points and blue box are nothing but cheap practice ammo in my book they shoot horrible in all my rifles except my Tikka (which shoots everything well) Core-bokts and ballistic tips are fine but they always happen to be sold out of whatever caliber I am looking for anyway, besides I get higer speeds and tighter groups out of my handloads then any factory fodder, even the "match" stuff. Every last one of my rifles will regularly touch holes at 100 with the good home made stuff.
BTW ammotogo shipping was real reasonable, I don't remember how much exactly but I remember thinking that it was cheaper then expected.
BTW ammotogo shipping was real reasonable, I don't remember how much exactly but I remember thinking that it was cheaper then expected.
meanmrmustard
Member
You misunderstand: Anything I CAN'T get at my LGS stays unsought. Walmart usually is relegated to practice, yes, but I do like federal fusion.
mortablunt
Member
Here's my best shot. I'm not too familiar in theory or in practice with many of them.
8mm mauser
.30-06 springfield
7.62x54R
.308 winchester
.303 british
7mm-08 remington
7.5x55 swiss
.270 winchester
6.5x55 swede
Being a bit of a hunting caliber Philistine, I mostly ranked by muzzle energy range.
8mm mauser
.30-06 springfield
7.62x54R
.308 winchester
.303 british
7mm-08 remington
7.5x55 swiss
.270 winchester
6.5x55 swede
Being a bit of a hunting caliber Philistine, I mostly ranked by muzzle energy range.
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
What is the best way to judge trajectory? In other words, I hear that some rounds have a "flatter trajectory." It's obvious what this means, but where can I find some objective data on this stuff? What's the standard for comparing trajectories?
steveo452
Member
Greatest range, Flattest trajectory and Take down deer at furthest distances.
1- .270win.
2- 30-06
3- 7mm08
4- .308win.
5- 6.5x55 swiss
These not in the game with factory ammo
6- 7.5x55 swiss
7- 7.62x54r
8- 303
9- 8mm
1- .270win.
2- 30-06
3- 7mm08
4- .308win.
5- 6.5x55 swiss
These not in the game with factory ammo
6- 7.5x55 swiss
7- 7.62x54r
8- 303
9- 8mm
meanmrmustard
Member
It means less of a "rainbow-like" flight path. Ballistics calculation gives you the amount of drop from one distance to another. Bullet flight isn't laser straight, but rather the bullet rises, peaks, then gravity takes over. Cartridges of considerable power, good BC, being fired from a barrel of length that utilizes the bullets potential combat wind, gravity, air density and humidity and give a flatter trajectory. Best cartridges ive seen that I personally qualify as flat shooters (or bean field cartridges as I call them) are those in the 6.5-7 mm family of cartridges.
meanmrmustard
Member
I'd take a look at 165 gr Hornady in 7.5 Swiss, and something other than Remington for the 8mm before kicking them out of your game.
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
I'm familiar with all of that, but was just seeking the best method to analyze different factory rounds like what I did with the Remington Shoot! for power and range.
Is it best just to look at bullet drop (with uniform zeros and types of ammo, etc...) at certain distances? Or is there a better, more informative means to do this?
Winchester's site has a neat little visual graph for comparing their ammo.
Otherwise find a ballistics calculator, and plug in muzzle velocity, bullet weight and ballistic coeficient for a baseline comparison. Rounds with flatter trajectories will drop less at distance, however sometimes those fast rounds are also light, and will have less energy when they get there. Less energy is not a factor in target shooting, but it is in hunting.
This can get complicated. Most understand that energy does not kill stuff. Putting a bullet through both lungs with enough expansion to get bullet diameter up to around 1/2" is going to kill game. Period.
It doesn't matter how you do this. A 45 caliber bullet with enough mass will do it with very little velocity or energy. It doesn't have to expand. A 22, 24,26, 27, 28, or 30 caliber bullet that hits with enough speed to expand and with a bullet tough enough to not blow up and get enough penetration will accomplish the same thing. Energy numbers don't kill, but they do give a pretty good indication of penetration and expansion with more modern high velocity rounds,(assuming you are using a good bullet). 1,000 ft lbs is a pretty accurate indicator (although not perfect) on deer size game. 1500 ft lbs is pretty accurate on larger game.
The 280 and 30-06 are both rounds that have always been factory loaded very conservatively. I don't load for 280, but with my 30-06 I can easily and very safely get 100+ fps more speed at any bullet weight than factory. I know some guys who are more willing to push the envelope that are gettng closer to 200 fps better. The 280 is the same. The 7-08 and 308 are also much more efficient in how they burn powder if you were to load a 7-08 and 280 with equal amounts of the same powder the 7-08 would be quite a bit faster. Same with the 308 and 30-06.
Improved bullet technology is the game changer that really makes these rounds eqaul for all practical pruposes. At one time small diameter, lightweight bullets pushed at high speed would not hold together on larger game to give adequate penetration. Newer bullet designs have made it possible for a 100 gr 243 bullet to outpenetrate, and out expand an old school 180 gr 30-06 bullet. It makes it possible to load a 150 gr bullet in a 30-06 at 3100 fps and equal the trajectory of a 270 while still giving needed penetration on larger game such as elk.
meanmrmustard
Member
Look at post 113, ima check it out too.
meanmrmustard
Member
Not real objective.
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
Another question... I'm pretty good at math and understand the formula for determining BC, but I'd rather not go through that process with every round for which I'm interested in testing trajectory. Any easier way? A cheat sheet?
meanmrmustard
Member
Haven't the foggiest, other than a formula that'd make heads spin. Mine did.
doc2rn
Member
.308 winchester is the flattest shooting at farthest distance
.30-06 springfield widest variety of bullets and the standard to which all others are measured.
.270 winchester best soft skin medium game round available and a wide availability of loads.
.30-06 springfield widest variety of bullets and the standard to which all others are measured.
.270 winchester best soft skin medium game round available and a wide availability of loads.
R.W.Dale
Member
How do you figure since 30-06 will shoot any and all bullets that 308 will + about 200 more fps?
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
Mustard, you mentioned that the 7.5x55 Swiss had a BC of about 0.5. Where did you get that info?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
FreedomFreak, I like the Sierra reloading handbook because of the superior amount of information in the appendices. They give the BC of all the Sierra bullets, and drop tables to 600 yards as a function of muzzle velocity.
Since all my Sierra loads are sub-MOA and they work as expected on critters, they're the mainstay in my reloading.
Since all my Sierra loads are sub-MOA and they work as expected on critters, they're the mainstay in my reloading.
That's what I usually do when comparing cartridges which I do not own and I don't have access to my reloading manuals. I go to Hogdon's website, Nosler's reloading website and Norma's reloading website and pick out an average max muzzle velocity, then I go to Sierra's website, Noslers bullet Website and Hornady's website and look for the average ballistic coefficient of different weights of bullets. Then I plug my numbers into the ballistics calculator at handloader.com
FreedomFreak, if you are asking for an easy way to compare factory ammo from different manufacturers...I don't think there is a way. I think you just have to do some research.
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