Rare - concealed carrier kills robber in Illinois, not charged?

[Aim1]

I thought Illinios didn't honor anyone else's CCW permit and that the shooter would have had to have a Illinios CCW permit? That a MO permit wouldn't have been good enough.

If that is the case, guess they chose not to charge because they knew it would blow up as bad press for Illinois government?




http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...et-but-hes-armed-too-and-quicker-on-the-draw/

Thugs pull gun on 70-year-old Vietnam vet. But he’s armed, too — and quicker on the draw.

Dave Urbanski 4 hours

A 70-year-old Vietnam veteran was dropping off a friend Thursday morning in Venice, Illinois, when, authorities said, two men pulled up next him in a vehicle and asked for directions.
Unfortunately for the crooks, the veteran — who’s from nearby St. Louis — was carrying a concealed firearm authorized by the state of Missouri, KTVI-TV said.

And he used it, fatally shooting 19-year-old Billy Dickerson in the head and wounding 23-year-old Perry Richardson with bullets to the arm and chest, KTVI added.

“The courts have consistently recognized the right of a law-abiding citizen to carry a concealed weapon for the purpose of self-defense,” Gibbons said in a statement to KTVI. “This incident yesterday morning is the exact situation where the necessity for this right becomes crystal clear.”

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I was thinking the same thing when I read the article.

 

[CoRoMo]

A few things to consider under the heading "Prosecutorial Discretion"...

Venice is just across the river from St. Louis, Missouri, where the vet is a resident. The bio sheet for State's Attorney for Madison County shows he went to law school across the river in Missouri. Being at the opposite end of the state as Chicago, I'd imagine the politics down there are similarly distant from that of Chicago. All that to say: I'm not surprised that the victim wasn't prosecuted in this case.

 

[Jackal]

I for one am very happy that the court isnt victimizing the victim.

 

[X-Rap]

With Indiana, Missouri and Kentucky on three sides I bet Southern Illinois is more like all of them than Chicago.
Thanks for prosecutorial discretion because Illinois law would have loved to thrown him in jail.
When I cross that state I use the southern route if at all possible.
I wouldn't want to press my luck but you might find the same in Western Maryland & Eastern Shore, Northern California and Northern NYS.

 

[Aim1]

I for one am very happy that the court isnt victimizing the victim.

I'd think most reasonable people would be. lol.


Remember that mother who accidently drove into NJ (I think) when she got turned around and got arrested, her case was later dropped or something. That was ridiculous that she had to go through that.

 

[Sam1911]

Very good, and yes prosecutorial discretion at its finest. There is also the related phenomenon of what might be called "proved necessity." It is entirely possible for someone to be not prosecuted for carrying a firearm if they actually had to shoot someone in what is immediately declared (by the authorities) to be self defense, but where it would have been quite likely for them to have been charged for carrying that firearm if they were discovered carrying it under other circumstances. The fact that he was assaulted proved the need for that weapon and in a way, got him off the hook. Not something you can hang your hat on, but it happens.


The downside in all of this is that it isn't a good lesson for casual observers in how laws are enforced. It is easy to pick out a story like this and say, "See? They didn't even bother this guy for carrying illegally!" with the implication being that they probably wouldn't bother YOU, either. And the generosity of this one State's Attorney's prosecutorial discretion -- for this guy, in this one instance -- is nothing for anyone to rely upon.

 

[Ed Ames]

When I cross that state I use the southern route if at all possible.

The only reason I know that Brownells has a retail gun store is the lack of CHL reciprocity in Illinois.

 

[Kleanbore]

Licensed carriers from
out of state are permitted to have guns in their vehicles.

 

[larryh1108]

Loaded?

 

[Stormbilly]

Loaded?

Yes. Out of state permits are recognized as long as you stay in your car. So, theoretically, one could drive across Illinois without removing or unloading their pistol as long as the person has a valid carry permit. Just have to leave it in your car if you stop and get out. Sounds like he was legally carrying. In addition, Madison county is one of the most gun friendly counties in the state.

 

[larryh1108]

That's nice to hear. IL has sure changed in the 5+ years since I left it. I know they offer concealed permits now as well (expensive and a process) but it is good to hear about the travel laws for when I go home to visit.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Yes. Out of state permits are recognized as long as you stay in your car. So, theoretically, one could drive across Illinois without removing or unloading their pistol as long as the person has a valid carry permit. Just have to leave it in your car if you stop and get out. Sounds like he was legally carrying. In addition, Madison county is one of the most gun friendly counties in the state.

News to me. Was this a recent change in the law?

 

[Frank Ettin]

....The downside in all of this is that it isn't a good lesson for casual observers in how laws are enforced. It is easy to pick out a story like this and say, "See? They didn't even bother this guy for carrying illegally!" with the implication being that they probably wouldn't bother YOU, either. And the generosity of this one State's Attorney's prosecutorial discretion -- for this guy, in this one instance -- is nothing for anyone to rely upon.

Exactly right.

Remember, prosecutorial discretion, when exercised in someone's favor, is a gift. It can't be expected or counted upon. The Subway Vigilante in New York, Bernie Goetz, was prosecuted for both his use of lethal force and his unlawful carrying of a gun. He was acquitted of the former (the jury no doubt found his actions justified) but convicted of the latter (and went to jail for a year).

 

[Rat Robb]

News to me. Was this a recent change in the law?

It went into effect when the state adopted a CCW for residents. It essetially just lets you travel through the state without having to stop and do the crazy lock up procedure. But, as in this case, also allows you to protect yourself in situations when you're stopped. Now that Missouri has constitutional carry (concealed too), I would think that means any Missouri resident can have a loaded gun in their vehicle.

As a lifelong resident of St. Louis, and as someone who travels across the river often, the state below Springfield is a completely different set of people. It should definitely think about separating from the north.

-Robb

 

[X-Rap]

It is important to note where Goetz was prosecuted and convicted. Considering that jurisdiction I think he got off light.

 

[JTHunter]

The State's Attorney in Madison county (where this happened) was one of several in Illinois that decided, after the court's decision and before any law was passed for CCW, to NOT prosecute most concealed carry violations in their counties.

 

[grogetr]

Yes the Madison co. SA is very gun friendly if you are a law abiding citizen. He allowed CC before Il. did. The state Senator from here is sponsoring the suppressor legalization law. And they both are Democrats. They need to split IL. at I80 so Chicago can leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Dog Soldier]

It is difficult for residents of strict gun control states to understand the flexible enforcement of the gun laws. I don't always understand it? But you know it when you see it.

 

[Kleanbore]

It went into effect when the state adopted a CCW for residents. It essetially just lets you travel through the state without having to stop and do the crazy lock up procedure. But, as in this case, also allows you to protect yourself in situations when you're stopped. Now that Missouri has constitutional carry (concealed too), I would think that means any Missouri resident can have a loaded gun in their vehicle.

No.

Wen the law went into effect in IL, it became lawful for non-residents who have CCW licenses from another state to have guns in the car. They may not take a gun out of the car unless they are going to a range, and the car must be locked when they get out.

Persons without carry permits may not have a handgun in the car.

There is no basis for characterizing this as "flexible enforcement".

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

No.

Wen the law went into effect in IL, it became lawful for non-residents who have CCW licenses from another state to have guns in the car. They may not take a gun out of the car unless they are going to a range, and the car must be locked when they get out.

Persons without carry permits may not have a handgun in the car.

There is no basis for characterizing this as "flexible enforcement".

Do you know if the gun also has to be unloaded and "not immediately accessible"? That was my understanding of the law, hope I'm wrong.

 

[Kleanbore]

Do you know if the gun also has to be unloaded and "not immediately accessible"? That was my understanding of the law, hope I'm wrong.

Not any more, for a permit holder.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Not any more, for a permit holder.

Way Cool

 

[SmokingFrye]

Out of curiosity, what are the IL laws for transport to and from the range, between homes/shops, etc.? This conversation makes me assume that IL doesn't have a castle doctrine as well. Hard for me to understand as most of my recent years have been in Texas, Nebraska, Arizona, and Nevada, all of which have comparatively liberal gun laws to Illinois. Though, Nebraska will recognize an out-of-state CCL only if you are only in the state temporarily and still carry a drivers license from the state that issued the CCL, otherwise, you must have a Nebraska-issued CCL (with some exceptions).

 

[Kleanbore]

Out of curiosity, what are the IL laws for transport to and from the range, between homes/shops, etc.? This conversation makes me assume that IL doesn't have a castle doctrine as well. Hard for me to understand as most of my recent years have been in Texas, Nebraska, Arizona, and Nevada, all of which have comparatively liberal gun laws to Illinois. Though, Nebraska will recognize an out-of-state CCL only if you are only in the state temporarily and still carry a drivers license from the state that issued the CCL, otherwise, you must have a Nebraska-issued CCL (with some exceptions).

Do not confuse firearms laws with use of force laws.

Illinois does have a castle doctrine.

Persons with IL concealed carry permits may carry concealed as long as they do not enter premises in which that is not permitted,