RCBS primer pocket swager..."problems"

[Hardtarget]

...But they my just be in my head! I went through the set up steps. I think I've got it right...but...I can't see it does anything. I inspected cases before and after. I can not tell /see any change in the pocket. I don't feel anything- almost like there is no resistance.

Do I have wrong expectations?

I got the bench mounted swager after having problems with a batch of .223 brass that I messed up some primers in. My little hand tool did not remove enough pocket crimp. I've not tried to seat a primer because it just doesn't seem like I'm making a change in the pocket yet.

I going now to re- reread the instructions to see if I missed something. Probably have.

Mark

Rats! I thought I was still in the "reloading" Section. clicking around too much! might be better if this could be moved over to "reloading". thanks

 

[FROGO207]

Well I found you here anyway. I have the press mounted RCBS swage tool. It feels some resistance when working but not like sizing a case. I would get a good light and a magnifying glass if needed and do a before and after swaging observation on the brass. You should be able to see if it is indeed changed. Then try to seat a used primer. If that works then try a "real live" primer. There may be some adjustment you still need to make to get it perfect. I know sorting by headstamp and adjusting the internal rod depth for each group is necessary when using mine. Again, I do not have the bench mounted tool so it may work a bit differently.

OH and are you using the correct punch for the primer pocket. That could cause problems as well.

 

[rcmodel]

Sounds like you need to adjust the support rod down a little more.

Also, you must sort cases, and re-adjust the rod for each case headstamp.

Otherwise, you well bend the rod.

BTW: I had to grind just tiny frog-hair off the end of the swaging punch on my old press mounted set to get it to go in far enough to do a complete swage.

When it's working right, you will need to use a little sizing lube in the primer pockets to make the operation easier.

rc

 

[Onmilo]

...But they my just be in my head! I went through the set up steps. I think I've got it right...but...I can't see it does anything. I inspected cases before and after. I can not tell /see any change in the pocket. I don't feel anything- almost like there is no resistance.

Do I have wrong expectations?

I got the bench mounted swager after having problems with a batch of .223 brass that I messed up some primers in. My little hand tool did not remove enough pocket crimp. I've not tried to seat a primer because it just doesn't seem like I'm making a change in the pocket yet.

I going now to re- reread the instructions to see if I missed something. Probably have.

Mark

Rats! I thought I was still in the "reloading" Section. clicking around too much! might be better if this could be moved over to "reloading". thanks

May not be your primer pocket swager. It may be your combination of branded cases and branded primers of which you made no mention or it could be an issue with your primer seating apparatus.
ONLY military cases are pocket swaged.

 

[carbine85]

If everything is adjusted properly the handle should cam over a little. I ream the pockets 1st and then swag it.

 

[fguffey]

Then about the time you think you have it figured out you discover case heads from the top of the cup to the case head is not the same thickness for all cases. Meaning when swaging primer pockets it is a good ideal to sort cases based on case head thickness. Many anvils have been bent by thick headed cases.

I have 30/06 case heads that have a spread of from .200" to .260" thick. It would have been nice if the manufacturer had designed the tool to kick our or release before something got bent.

F. Guffey

 

[345 DeSoto]

After I take the SS tumbled cases out of the rinse water, I run them through the RCBS Swager with spots of water in the pockets. Makes a WORLD of difference swaging them.

 

[Captaingyro]

You're probably doing everything right. Proper swaging doesn't make a huge visible difference in the primer pocket; it merely removes the crimp (more specifically, presses it back away) from the opening. Swaging is not meant to make any difference inside the primer pocket...only around the edge of the mouth.

What are you trying to do? Remove the crimp from military cases, or uniform the primer pockets? Uniforming the pockets is more properly done by reaming, and this should be done with extreme care...you can easily overdo it. If your cases didn't have crimped-in primers, you won't see any difference after swaging because the problem that swaging is supposed to correct didn't exist in the first place.

 

[W.E.G.]

Some crimped brass needs little or no primer pocket swaging.

 

[Captaingyro]

Some crimped brass needs little or no primer pocket swaging.

Good point. Crimped primer pockets are frequently perceived as a bigger problem than they really are. If the old primer came out, the new one will probably go in, especially if you're hand-priming.

 

[GW Staar]

Rereading the OP's post, I distinctly get the feeling that answers are about the many years old press-mounted swager, and the O.P. only mentions the "bench swager". So do you have the "bench" or "press" swagers.....or both?

I'll comment on both.

First the bench swager: It's all about adjusting the swage rod in enough to swage. That's a trial and error adjustment, as RC mentioned depending on brass sorting. IOW's a setting that works for your batch of military .45's or even 7.62
brass made in Israel, may not be the setting that works for your 7.62 Federal-made LC brass, for example.


Above: The bench-mounted tool with the small swage rod in a case. (case is 5.56)

Above: The critical measurement that depends on case head thickness.

Now the Press-mounted swager:

That tool is designed to be adjusted so that the rod pushes the case head onto a button. It only works well if it pushes the button to the "hilt" as the next two pictures demonstrate:


Below: The hilt meaning that the radiused fillet on the button is pressed into and rounds the case pocket edge. (arrow) now compare pictures below and above.


A trick I learned on the "Bench Swager": I found that the "feel" is so good with the little sideways handle, that I just adjust the swage in a little where the handle never finishes the stroke. That way it fits all head thicknesses for one caliber. IOW, I stroke until I "feel" it bottom and no more (we don't want to bend the rod or mash the casehead. It works fine for me that way.....you get a feel for the bottom.

For the press swager there is very little feel so such isn't an option. Ditto for the Dillon with it's long handle....unless you choke up (baseball bat style).

 

[Rule3]

GW,

Which one do you prefer.?? I had the 1st version of the press (die) version and really did not care for it. Sold it.

Bought the CH4D version and sold that also. I prefer to just ream them out with a Hornady tool chucked in a drill.

So does the bench version work better and faster??

 

[Slamfire]

Excellent post GW Staar.

I had no idea that RCBS was making a version of the Dillion primer pocket swager. I have a Dillion and it is an outstanding swager.

I do have the RCBS press swager, I decided it was next to useless, I would almost turn my reloading bench over trying to remove the swager from the primer pocket, and it was slow. That RCBS press swager is rusting away somewhere in the garage, if I have not thrown it out already.

 

[GW Staar]

Rule3, that's easy.....the bench-mounted one. And yes, it's very similar to the Dillon one. The press-mounted version works well, but yes lifting the brass off the button is hard on old people like me. I never tried RC's idea of using a little lube.....that might make is nicer to use.....but then you have to remove the lube....and maybe that works in to the prep regimen you use anyway.

You mentioned reaming.....I have the new RCBS reamers too. They are a big improvement over their old ones......and you know I like them better than Hornady's simply because the Hornady reamer's stop is in the bottom of the pocket, while the RCBS bottoms against the case head. What's the difference? The Hornady is harder to keep from wallering at an angle and screwing up your pockets. The RCBS naturally seats against the head nice and square.

Now then......if you use a progressive....and if that progressive has a primer depth stop, like the RCBS Pro 2000 (Pro Chuckers too) or the Dillon 1050, then it is important to uniform the primer pockets to a uniform depth.....or else you can't use the depth stop.

Therefore I use......both...I know....you're thinking how anal! However I just have to slightly "pop" the reamer to the pocket for a split second, being swaged already. Mind you, if you use a hand primer the swages alone work great.

Here's the reason for my madness: That uniformer, which is really important to make inserting primers on my progressive press 100% fast & trouble-free, can grab a case out of my hand. I use a Trim Mate, so it adds an extra whole second. Why does the reamer make a difference? The reamer bevels the pocket just enough to let the case slide right in to the uniformer without grabbing and galling! It's a speed/quality thing both during prep and during priming on the press. Yep beveled pockets also keep the new primers from catching an edge on the pocket. YOU DON'T want interruptions during a progressive session.

So then I have the swager mounted next to the trim mate so that I can swage, ream, uniform, and deburr the flash holes all in about 7 seconds each. BTW the uniformer also cleans the pockets.

BTW, both the Dillon and RCBS bench swagers have one achilles heel. they are made of really thin aluminum. They both can break. I filled the under side of mine with epoxy putty to prevent that..... I think that's a prudent idea for either bench tool. The Dillon metal is a tad thinner even....and yes I can find you pictures of both tools maimed by a "bull in a china closet". Hmmm, just noticed the RCBS one is on sale at Midway for $73.

 

[fguffey]

And then there is the RCBS Case Prep center. Install a military crimp removal tool with the primer pocket uniformer tool and the case neck bevel/de-burring tool. I also add a brush for the inside of the neck.

Pick the case up once.

the primer pocket tool can be used on primer pockets that have a crimp. I have as many cases that are non military crimped as I do with cases with crimps. The case prep center works for both type cases.

F. Guffey

 

[Rule3]

Thanks GW I would have to agree with the logic on the RCBS reamer, I like the idea that it hits the case head.

Can I use that chucked in a drill or would it be off center also? I do not have the whole prep center.

 

[GW Staar]

Many have used the harder to present Hornady reamer with a drill. Has to be easier being able to see to run a reamer in straight. Gravity is a great helper with the Trim Mate. If I didn't have one, I'd probably come up with some sort of vice for the drill.

 

[Hardtarget]

First, thanks to the Mods for moving this to 'reloading" This is where it needed to be.

Thank you to all that took time to post. I've learned what to look for and some of the "don't do this" stuff too!

G.W.Starr,(post 11) that photo is the swager unit I have. Good photos.

From what I've read I'm sure I can get this doing right. I'll get the brass sorted and sized and double double check my adjustments. I'll take the time needed...no need to rush, just get set up correctly and it'll run right.

Again, thanks guys. Its nice to have help with this stuff.

Mark

 

[GW Staar]

FGuffy must be talking about the new "Universal" Case Prep tool that combines trimming (with a three-way cutter, and all the Trim Mate tools in one unit.......thus his "Pick up the case once comment."

It's expensive, but if I didn't already have my Forster Trimmer all motorized and de-arthritisized, I'd probably save up for one. Here's a picture to salivate on!

It improves on the Trim Mate with variable speeds, and the trimmer is autofeed. The handle on the left is the "universal case holder catch and release
RCBS has Kent Sakamoto running one on a video on their site.....looks nice.

Hardtarget, you're welcome.....that's what we hang around these parts for. The reloading part of this forum is one of the best.

 

[Rule3]

Many have used the harder to present Hornady reamer with a drill. Has to be easier being able to see to run a reamer in straight. Gravity is a great helper with the Trim Mate. If I didn't have one, I'd probably come up with some sort of vice for the drill.

Yes, I put my variable speed drill in my bench vise.

 

[GW Staar]

Then you're good to go, I'd say. I used a screwgun on my motorized Forster trimmer for it's clutch mechanism (only turns as you put pressure against it), but you don't need that for this application. One thing I still wanted to fix though was the variable speed switch. I went with simple: bought a 50 cent pipe clamp to circle the switch & grip....and adjust the speed I want with that. If its plugged into a small, switched outlet strip then you can use that to turn it on and off.

The only advantage for buying a Trim Mate or similar tool is to get several stations turning at once.....so you just work your brass around the circle....but until you can pony up $ for such as that.....you're perfectly fine. I know one guy (a mod at AR15.com) who has a reamer in one drill and a uniformer in a twin drill. He likes the faster speed.....but in my experience with a uniformer, is fast means it can jerk the case painfully out of your hand and fling it across the room! If the T.M. is too slow for you, the new "universal" with variable speed is faster if you want. Such is more money than a Rock Chucker .... twice.

What one spends his money on is interesting.....depends on priorities. Some people spend more than that on cigarettes and McDonalds in a year. Some people spend $800 on a Remington rifle then buy a $2000 scope for it! I'm afraid I don't get to be one of those! At my age one of the important things that drives me is comfort and putting the least stress on my body. My hands and wrists hurt all the time after swinging a hammer for almost 50 years, so these kind of tools are especially important to such as I. (even that clamp!)

Back to the swagers: There are more than a few who think reaming (the removing of the crimp's material) weakens the case, so they prefer swaging. Personally, I doubt it weakens the case at all in a critical place. The slight chamfer they make, makes "decrimped" brass more obvious at a glance, and makes primers easier to center into the hole, so priming, especially on a progressive goes smoother. But the chamfer doesn't have to be much if a swager is used.

Using the old bang around RCBS press swager used right, rounds the edges of the pockets and thus acts as good as a chamfer helping to center the new primer. But it's slowww. I like the new swager, but I pop the edges with the reamer.....slightly......for the centering advantage on the progressive. Anal maybe....but it works for me....makes me feel better too.

 

[Rule3]

Then you're good to go, I'd say. I used a screwgun on my motorized Forster trimmer for it's clutch mechanism (only turns as you put pressure against it), but you don't need that for this application. One thing I still wanted to fix though was the variable speed switch. I went with simple: bought a 50 cent pipe clamp to circle the switch & grip....and adjust the speed I want with that. If its plugged into a small, switched outlet strip then you can use that to turn it on and off.


I still have my Fathers 3/8 and 1/2 corded drills that have a variable speed adjustment and trigger lock so I can set them to whatever speed I want.

 

[jmorris]

If the pocket looks like the one on the right, keep going until it looks like the one on the left.