Ready to Give Up on Ruger Mini 14 Target Rifle
- Thread starter Luke Rutherford
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MICHAEL T
Member
Send to Ruger They made it and they should fix it. If their selling and claiming its a target rifle Then they need to stand behind that claim .
I had one of the early 80's regular mini 14 at 100 yards 1 shot dead center as you shot and barrel got hot wash tub size groups.
I had one of the early 80's regular mini 14 at 100 yards 1 shot dead center as you shot and barrel got hot wash tub size groups.
Luke Rutherford
Member
I'm going to shoot some heavier bullets in a few days. Still factory ammo. Tonight I removed the scope, a Leupold VX-III, and remounted it with different rings. Lapped 'em good, leveled and carefully torqued everything. Will be very consistent with rest and hold. Forgot to mention. I re-worked the trigger a while back so it is soft with a crisp break. Will put around 60+ rounds through it. If still no success (consistent 1.5" or smaller 5-shot groups) I'll contact Ruger. Lots of good info from all. Thanks.
what does that supposed to mean? the infallible one has spoken? the mini target gun is what it says it is; a target gun and it will shoot tiny groups with their heavy barrel. just because it is not truck axle size means nothing. MIA's with same profile heavy barrel shoot as good if not better then most bolts. Luke do not send to accuracy intl. wasting your money. Ruger will fix it fire a tiny group and send it back free of chargeI am just going to park this here and walk away.
The occasional good 1/2" three shot group does not a "half moa" rifle make
Captain Capsize
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2012
- Messages
- 57
Please follow up with results, thanks.
Luke Rutherford
Member
Well, it's time to get rid of this Ruger. Put a bunch of rounds through it today. Same as first, second, third, ...10th time I tried to sight it in: 3+ inch groups at 100 yards. A "tunable" heavy barrel Mini-14 is a neat concept. But this particular Mini-14 has got to be a lemon. I suspect there's something wrong with the barrel. Hidden metal stresses or something. Interestingly it never shoots vertical, horizontal, or evenly dispersed circular groups. They are almost always strung at an angle from left to right or right to left. On today's outing I shot good quality, heavier factory ammo. Had cleaned every part of the gun. Different scope and rings. Carefully torqued everything. Was very consistent on grip, hold, control. Moved the tuner 1/4 turns up and down the barrel. Every 1/4 turn moved the location of the group all around the target, but 3+ inch groups. I'm not wasting another bullet. Have owned it too long to try and get Ruger to "fix" it under warranty. I'll call them but don't expect much.
R.W.Dale
Member
I understand your frustration.
I would try ONE MORE thing that will in all likelyhood confirm its the rifle as just being plain inaccurate.
I stumbled on this messing with another inaccurate semiauto platform the rem7400.
I discovered that what everyone was saying about the rifles throwing shots as the bbl heated to be absolutely true. But I could FORCE the rifle to produce relatively good groups by shooting groups where every shot was from a stone cold bore. I would wait like ten minutes between shots, yes it defeated the purpose of a semiauto. But it showed me that the wild fliers were all gun and not optics, bedding or shooter related.
I'm betting your rifle may shoot decent ran in such a way. It would also confirm your suspicions of uneven barrel expansion
I would try ONE MORE thing that will in all likelyhood confirm its the rifle as just being plain inaccurate.
I stumbled on this messing with another inaccurate semiauto platform the rem7400.
I discovered that what everyone was saying about the rifles throwing shots as the bbl heated to be absolutely true. But I could FORCE the rifle to produce relatively good groups by shooting groups where every shot was from a stone cold bore. I would wait like ten minutes between shots, yes it defeated the purpose of a semiauto. But it showed me that the wild fliers were all gun and not optics, bedding or shooter related.
I'm betting your rifle may shoot decent ran in such a way. It would also confirm your suspicions of uneven barrel expansion
OilyPablo
Member
Something is really amiss. My relatively new (2012) 581- walnut stock standard Mini shoots better than that. Leade/chamber issue?? Maybe have it checked.
Luke Rutherford
Member
I considered the cold barrel test. If that were the problem, and it was a hunting rifle, when cold barrel first-shots count, I'd consider keeping it. Obviously a 9.5 lb Mini-14 is not for hunting (though maybe in pdog town). A few times when I tried sighting it in I shot some barrel warmers off target before getting down to business.
Unfortunately for me to shoot a rifle where I live it's a big deal. I have to drive for about an hour. It's not like I can shoot off the back porch, have a cup of coffee, and come back in 15 minutes after the gun has cooled and shoot again. I envy you guys who can do that. If I don't get rid of the gun first, the next time I'm at the range shooting other guns I'll probably run a cold barrel test. Would be nice to get to the bottom of this.
Unfortunately for me to shoot a rifle where I live it's a big deal. I have to drive for about an hour. It's not like I can shoot off the back porch, have a cup of coffee, and come back in 15 minutes after the gun has cooled and shoot again. I envy you guys who can do that. If I don't get rid of the gun first, the next time I'm at the range shooting other guns I'll probably run a cold barrel test. Would be nice to get to the bottom of this.
Sheepdog1968
Member
Contact Ruger. They should help fix it for you.
R.W.Dale
Member
I'm a big ruger fan but unfortunately you're probably mistaken.
3" groups will fall under their acceptable accuracy for the purposes of a warranty repair most likely. But don't take my word for it you should still call and see
3" groups with their best target mini?? why do you say most likely? I would send it back anyway they will find what is making contact and fix it
WardenWolf
member
I tell anyone thinking of getting a Mini-14 or Mini-30 to just get an AK or SKS. Less money and more accurate. It's a sad truth that a bottom-of-the-barrel AK like a WASR-10 is more accurate out of the box than your average Mini-14. And if they're willing to spend more they get MUCH better.
Honestly, the Mini-14 and Mini-30 are overpriced pieces of trash. There's so many better semi-autos in their price range. SKS's, unconverted Saigas, WASRs, even DPMS AR-15's which can be had for $650 once again. All of these rifles are better guns and have much more potential for modification to suit your needs.
Honestly, the Mini-14 and Mini-30 are overpriced pieces of trash. There's so many better semi-autos in their price range. SKS's, unconverted Saigas, WASRs, even DPMS AR-15's which can be had for $650 once again. All of these rifles are better guns and have much more potential for modification to suit your needs.
carbine85
Member
Much of what you say here simply isn't accurate. It may be a valid opinion but still not accurate.
WardenWolf
member
Your typical WASR will do 2-3 MOA. A good AK can do 1.5-2, or even a little better with some rare models like the Beryl Archer and some VEPRs. An SKS is typically right around 2 MOA.
Price of a Mini-14? Cheapest I've seen is around $750. What I've said actually IS accurate. You CAN do better, for less. A lot better, and a lot less.
Price of a Mini-14? Cheapest I've seen is around $750. What I've said actually IS accurate. You CAN do better, for less. A lot better, and a lot less.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
You must mean a pick-of-the-litter SKS using quality hand loaded ammo. My Norinco SKS certainly won't come close to 2 MOA with factory loaded ammo.
WardenWolf
member
Norincos aren't some of the better ones. Yugos, Russians and Romanians can pull it off.
that kind of AK would be 1200 the target version of the mini will shoot it is just a bad one. I wish SKS's shot 2 inch groups
sixgunner455
Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2006
- Messages
- 3,052
I haven't seen an SKS that can keep up with my DelTon lightweight AR upper. Complete, that rifle was under $650.
frankiestoys
Member
Really ? Never owned a SKS but rather a Bulgarian 74 and a Saiga .223 both ran fine but neither were stellar performers. I don't own them anymore, but instead I have two 580 series Mini's that run rather well ...my SS ranch with a Bushnell 3x9 (bench rest) consistently shoots 1 1/2" groups all day ...only mods done was a trigger job. The other sits in an ATI stock I average 3" groups at 60 yrds with a red dot ,is a tac driver no but IMO accurate enough for what I would want them for. WTS I do have an AR its just a DPMS But has proven reliable and accurate and only slightly more so then my ranch model . So I have to wonder if your experience must be with an older series Ruger that you may have had a bad experience with. As far as the OP's problem , Your Mini needs to go back to Ruger and it sounds to me that your barrel is the issue I would demand they take a look and remedy the issue your Target model should be shooting a lot tighter then it is. I have a Ruger MK II Target in 22-250 for serious sub moa groups .when I want to show off I bring her along
Sheepdog1968
Member
The only reason I think this May not be the case is that it is a target model.
walkenbear
Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2008
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- 23
Hey Luke,
That would indicate a bedding problem on the stock receiver fit to me. The side to side fit of the stock to the receiver can be easily bedded. Mainly the bedding/shimming is done on the 2 flat sides on the front part of the receiver to eliminate the side to side play of the receiver/stock fit. The fit of the trigger group does a pretty good job of holding the rear of the receiver in place. You can shim the receiver to test the results before going the distance of using bedding compound. The fit MUST be tight. Take out the forearm/oprod liner and put the receiver back in, no trigger group, then check for side to side play if there is any movement it needs bedding the fit should be TIGHT. Actually just check to see if there is any play at all in any direction with the trigger group and forearm liner out, that will let you know just what kind of stock/receiver fit you are dealing with. If there is side to side play then most likely when you install the forearm liner and trigger group there will be unequal pressure on the gas block receiver fit. If it is tight then re-install the trigger group with the liner out then check the fit of the gas block to the stock. It should not be bearing unevenly, or lopsided on one side or have a uneven gap with the liner out. If it does then when the liner is back in it will be putting uneven pressure on the barrel. If it is tight on one side or not a even gap then it would be best to even out the gap before bedding or shimming, if you determine you need to bed it or shim it because there is not a tight fit at the front of the receiver. Any uneven pressures on the barrel is no good, just like any rifle.
While the 223 is not a high recoil round the 1 lb+ op rod bolt slamming back and forth WILL move the receiver around if not tightly bedded. You can buy brass shimming material at a local hardware store for pretty cheap or possibly use aluminum from a soda can to test but be aware that the soft metals will deform in time because well, they are soft metals. But it will let you know if you are on the right track. I picked up a "variety" pack of brass shims in different thickness's for like $6 at my local ace hardware a few years back.
The stocks are a mass produced item, not a precision made stock. It is possible your stock is not straight either, that will be apparent when you re-assemble the rifle without the liner, I had to return a mini stock to Choate because it was not straight in the forearm and put pressure on one side of the gas block
Not being able to see the groups the question I would ask is, if you were able to eliminate the horizontal stringing would you be satisfied with the groupings? If yes then I would take a really hard look at the receiver to stock fit and any uneven pressures on the stock/gas block fit.
Here is a link to GunDocs website that has a video of how he beds the mini action, if a pic is worth 1000K words then the video speaks volumes.
http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/minibedding09%20low%20%282%29.html
hit the play arrow even though it says it's loading and the vid will play. Vids do take a while to load completely.
General link to mini 14 work done by GunDoc. Video selection is scroll down and to the left invaluable videos if you haven't seen them.
http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/mini14.htm
the shimming can be done where he beds the receiver to give you an idea if you are on the right track, just make sure you shim it with the liner out first until it is tight and the gas block gap is even (mark your shims right and left) then re-assemble with the liner in place. No vertical spread shows you something and the side to side spread also indicates something.
Also be aware that the Target Mini has a different chamber than the other mini models. It is specifically chambered for .223 and does not have the looser chamber like the other mini models that will shoot either .223 or 5.56 ammo.
If you decide to keep the mini I recommend a Choate hand guard to replace the factory one, it has way better venting of spent gases and helps keep the hot part of the barrel cooler.
Best o' Luck
WB
That would indicate a bedding problem on the stock receiver fit to me. The side to side fit of the stock to the receiver can be easily bedded. Mainly the bedding/shimming is done on the 2 flat sides on the front part of the receiver to eliminate the side to side play of the receiver/stock fit. The fit of the trigger group does a pretty good job of holding the rear of the receiver in place. You can shim the receiver to test the results before going the distance of using bedding compound. The fit MUST be tight. Take out the forearm/oprod liner and put the receiver back in, no trigger group, then check for side to side play if there is any movement it needs bedding the fit should be TIGHT. Actually just check to see if there is any play at all in any direction with the trigger group and forearm liner out, that will let you know just what kind of stock/receiver fit you are dealing with. If there is side to side play then most likely when you install the forearm liner and trigger group there will be unequal pressure on the gas block receiver fit. If it is tight then re-install the trigger group with the liner out then check the fit of the gas block to the stock. It should not be bearing unevenly, or lopsided on one side or have a uneven gap with the liner out. If it does then when the liner is back in it will be putting uneven pressure on the barrel. If it is tight on one side or not a even gap then it would be best to even out the gap before bedding or shimming, if you determine you need to bed it or shim it because there is not a tight fit at the front of the receiver. Any uneven pressures on the barrel is no good, just like any rifle.
While the 223 is not a high recoil round the 1 lb+ op rod bolt slamming back and forth WILL move the receiver around if not tightly bedded. You can buy brass shimming material at a local hardware store for pretty cheap or possibly use aluminum from a soda can to test but be aware that the soft metals will deform in time because well, they are soft metals. But it will let you know if you are on the right track. I picked up a "variety" pack of brass shims in different thickness's for like $6 at my local ace hardware a few years back.
The stocks are a mass produced item, not a precision made stock. It is possible your stock is not straight either, that will be apparent when you re-assemble the rifle without the liner, I had to return a mini stock to Choate because it was not straight in the forearm and put pressure on one side of the gas block
Not being able to see the groups the question I would ask is, if you were able to eliminate the horizontal stringing would you be satisfied with the groupings? If yes then I would take a really hard look at the receiver to stock fit and any uneven pressures on the stock/gas block fit.
Here is a link to GunDocs website that has a video of how he beds the mini action, if a pic is worth 1000K words then the video speaks volumes.
http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/minibedding09%20low%20%282%29.html
hit the play arrow even though it says it's loading and the vid will play. Vids do take a while to load completely.
General link to mini 14 work done by GunDoc. Video selection is scroll down and to the left invaluable videos if you haven't seen them.
http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/mini14.htm
the shimming can be done where he beds the receiver to give you an idea if you are on the right track, just make sure you shim it with the liner out first until it is tight and the gas block gap is even (mark your shims right and left) then re-assemble with the liner in place. No vertical spread shows you something and the side to side spread also indicates something.
Also be aware that the Target Mini has a different chamber than the other mini models. It is specifically chambered for .223 and does not have the looser chamber like the other mini models that will shoot either .223 or 5.56 ammo.
If you decide to keep the mini I recommend a Choate hand guard to replace the factory one, it has way better venting of spent gases and helps keep the hot part of the barrel cooler.
Best o' Luck
WB
Pete D.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,659
mini
I really wanted to like my Mini.....never could get it to group better than noted here.
What is the rifling twist rate on the target model? I have read 1-9" is that correct? If so, that more or less eliminates the heavy .223 bullets and long range (400+ yards.....I know, I know....someone is going to tell me that their 1-9 , etc gives them MOA groups at 600. Yep.) Might be worth a try loading up some 62s - 69s.
Pete
I really wanted to like my Mini.....never could get it to group better than noted here.
What is the rifling twist rate on the target model? I have read 1-9" is that correct? If so, that more or less eliminates the heavy .223 bullets and long range (400+ yards.....I know, I know....someone is going to tell me that their 1-9 , etc gives them MOA groups at 600. Yep.) Might be worth a try loading up some 62s - 69s.
I have read about the mini 14 target model producing quite nice five shot groups at 100 yards (5/8") but I will be more of a believer of the statement quoted when the rifle starts winning at the National Matches at Camp Perry or High Power matches in general, though the Mini is not eligible for Service Rifle competition where the AR dominates. It would come up against match bolt guns that would really put the idea to the test.
Pete
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I understand disappointment with a firearm can really turn you off of it. I had a Marlin (pre-Remlin) 1894 that was an utter POS. The machining was horendous on the reciever, beyond what could be repaired without welding in missing metal. It was special ordered in for me by my local dealer, and I took it without careful prior inspection and got so PO'd that I never shot it and I wanted nothing but rid of that rifle. Dealer took it back and made it right and that was the last Marlin for me. Whole scenario over in two weeks.
It sounds however like the OP put a lot of effort into getting this rifle to shoot, so I'm guessing he likes/liked it other than the bad accuracy. At this point sending it to Ruger could only help. This model is a whole different beast than earlier mini's and is reputed to shoot quite well. From my understanding, Ruger is very good at standing behind their products and should make it right with either repair or replacement. Sometimes lemons do get out the door, but Ruger has a srong reputation of making things right. Yes it does take a proactive approach by the OP, but the company can't make it right if not given a chance.
I had an earlier stainless ranch rifle before the updates to improve accuracy a few years back and even it shot better that the patterns this rifle is giving. I dedcided to standerdize on an AR as it worked best for my situation, but I really liked that Mini and if I can someday would like to get one of the newer versions.
It sounds however like the OP put a lot of effort into getting this rifle to shoot, so I'm guessing he likes/liked it other than the bad accuracy. At this point sending it to Ruger could only help. This model is a whole different beast than earlier mini's and is reputed to shoot quite well. From my understanding, Ruger is very good at standing behind their products and should make it right with either repair or replacement. Sometimes lemons do get out the door, but Ruger has a srong reputation of making things right. Yes it does take a proactive approach by the OP, but the company can't make it right if not given a chance.
I had an earlier stainless ranch rifle before the updates to improve accuracy a few years back and even it shot better that the patterns this rifle is giving. I dedcided to standerdize on an AR as it worked best for my situation, but I really liked that Mini and if I can someday would like to get one of the newer versions.
MachIVshooter
Member
I would certainly expect better accuracy than what the OP is reporting out of the "target" model, but I believe MOA or better is the exception rather than the rule.
I believe there are two ways to improve the accuracy of a mini, both of which I have seen.
1) Chop the barrel. I had my 196 series stainless cut to 14.6", recrowned and a FH welded. Went from 3-4 MOA to ~2MOA. I was shocked, honestly. My purpose was not accuracy, but it proved a fringe benefit.
2) Send it to ASI and spend a small fortune. I have seen what their builds can do, but it doesn't come cheap. Expect to drop a grand or better with them for a true bull barrel, sub-MOA mini.
The Factory Ruger bull barrel and any of the aftermarket "drop-in" types are a joke, being a standard profile barrel from breech face to gas block. As R.W. said, a faux bull barrel.
I believe there are two ways to improve the accuracy of a mini, both of which I have seen.
1) Chop the barrel. I had my 196 series stainless cut to 14.6", recrowned and a FH welded. Went from 3-4 MOA to ~2MOA. I was shocked, honestly. My purpose was not accuracy, but it proved a fringe benefit.
2) Send it to ASI and spend a small fortune. I have seen what their builds can do, but it doesn't come cheap. Expect to drop a grand or better with them for a true bull barrel, sub-MOA mini.
The Factory Ruger bull barrel and any of the aftermarket "drop-in" types are a joke, being a standard profile barrel from breech face to gas block. As R.W. said, a faux bull barrel.
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