Real Id Act

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Thank you for reminding us of this Act we'd rather forget.

"As government expands, liberty contracts." Ronald Reagan
 
I have never understood exacty why we should be opposed to a national ID.
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Anything that the government gives can be taken away. When you absolutely need to have a government ID to function, just wait to see what you have to give up to get one. I think a better question to ask is why *shouldnt* we be opposed to one. There is no real tangible benefit, so why give the government one more item to hold over the head of the people?
 
Off the cuff...

To some, having a national ID carries the connotation that the State is superior to the individuals and the the individual is disposable at the whim of the State. Some liken it unto the regime of National Socialism in Germany or the Marxists States that once and still befoul the planet. Other see it as the first step toward the Mark of the Beast that their religion predicts for the End Times. A few see reality mirroring art and cry out "I am not a number, I am a free man!"

I have come to a mixed mind on it. I can see its utility, but can also see its dangers.
 
What it comes down to, Constitutionally, is that the State has soveriegnity over its citizens, not the Federal government. So a means by which we can be regulated/tabulated on a Federal level is not Constitutional. Which is why SSN's are not supposed to be used for any other purpose besides SSA requirements.
 
The biggest problem with a national ID I have is that it is a solution to a knowingly created problem. Had entry requirements into our country been as they were sixty years ago - and a serious patrolling of the border - a significant problem would not exist.

The authors of this policy have had their own agenda; creating their new Pan-America State - and tighter control over everyone. These criminals should have been impeached and brought up on criminal charges as appropriate a long time ago.

Instead, I am expected to be part of their "solution" - or labeled something trendy and perhaps prosecuted if I refuse to take part.

---------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I have never understood exacty why we should be opposed to a national ID.
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Reminds me of the past evils of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union where I
was always told people were asked for their "Papers" but we should cherish
America because we don't do that here. Wow, how much has changed over
my lifetime.

Now we start indoctrinating our kids to accept their cattle tags early in school. Eventually national id will be extended to all business transactions
when we have gone "cashless."
 
ServiceSoon said:
What are your feelings regarding the newest bill signed by Bush?
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I support the bill and applaud the President for his action!

How Will RealID Affect You? As this site details, it is not the abridgment of the Constitution or the Nazi agenda as some of the reactionary alarmists are making it; instead the bill provides identification for Americans in an overarching effort at National Security. "What's going to be stored on this ID card? At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a 'common machine-readable technology' that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport 'physical security' features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

The alarmists on the other side of the aisle on this issue are complaining about illegal aliens within our borders but are against this ID, yet they propose no internal solution to determining who-is-who domestically; the RealID will go far toward that end. Is it a solution in and of itself? No, but it is a step in the right direction and the President is leading the nation in supporting this action.
 
CD,

Right now someone shows up at their license branch with paper documents
that get them a picture id (most states don't have embedded chips at this
time) and their name is listed on a state database. After real id, people will
show up at their license branch with the same paper documents and get a
new id that has a chip in it, ostensibly for "storing" information. If a police
officer pulls someone over they can check the state's ID database to see if
the person has a valid license and any warrants, etc.

So, tell me, CD, how does putting a chip --with the potential for RF
properties-- "protect" me and national security more than the OLD system
where the officer could still check on his available databases: if I was a valid
driver and had any warrants posted? Doesn't the officer's OLD system
currently show my picture on his screen without me carrying around a chip
24/7/365?

Explain how things are more "secure" with a chip for the average American?

Yeah, I know a lot of questions and we don't want to disturb the dots now
do we? ;)
 
Thin Black Line said:
So, tell me, CD, how does putting a chip --with the potential for RF properties-- "protect" me and national security more than the OLD system where the officer could still check on his available databases...
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It is a further identification vehicle for citizens. Is it perfect? No. Is it foolproof? No. But it is a barrier to those attempting to illegally claim citizenship. Sealing the border is half the problem; identifying those within the nation as citizens, so those illegals within are also identified via lack of identification, is also key...

As a counter to your point a parallel (granted it is not exact)=>The identification number chiseled into gun barrels by the manufacturer to identify them can be changed too and gun stores can use their database to identify gun owners via the gun's serial identication numbers, yet that firearm number is still being used.
 
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When you absolutely need to have a government ID to function, just wait to see what you have to give up to get one.
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I understand your sentiment, but what exactly are they saying I would have to use this ID for?

How would it be different from the myriad other things I already have to show ID for?
 
I have come to a mixed mind on it. I can see its utility, but can also see its dangers.
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and given what this federal Govt is capable of doing (and its growth and abuse)....NO THANKS!! I just dont trust the Federal Govt.......with pretty much a lot of things....

seriously this was "just another" reason why I left the GOP...
 
Quote from Lobotomy boy:
"It's important enough to rate a new thread to keep the conversation going."




You are sure right with that statement. In fact, I'm sure you'd agree, not enough conversation in protest of this evil, ridiculously Machavelian plan, is why our so called "Representatives" sold us down the river, voting for it.

The Real ID Act is so ridiculously, and patently Unconstitutional, that the entire House should impeach itself for allowing it, the President for signing it, and then the Senate should vote the House, the President, and themselves, removed from office.

Instead, they grant Amnesty to Illegals, and require us to have an RFID????
 
There are two things which are the veils used to disguise the capitulation of rights as something beneficial: Promotion of safety, and crime prevention. Both are things the government has no business doing. Their job is to prosecute, not prevent, crime. It is the job of free citizens to prevent crime. And it used to be a job the citizens wouldn't allow anyone else to do for them. How truly weak and dependant we have become...

We are no longer free. We now let the government tell us how things are and how they will be, when it should be the other way around. We have traded our freedom for false promises.
 
What are they wanting to use this new, evil ID for that we are not already having to show ID for anyway? I just dont get it.

I already can't do a lot of things without an ID. Why do I care if its federal or state issued?
 
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I don't get it either. I don't follow the illegal immigration issue as closely as some do around here (it's not really a big item in New Hampshire); is there a lot of law enforcement down south saying "we're finding illegal immigrants all over the place, but they've got tax ID numbers or consulate IDs or drivers' licenses from states that issue them to illegals and so we can't detain/deport them"? :confused:
 
Sounds real scary to me. :rolleyes:

Title II: Improved Security for Driver's Licenses and Personal Identification Cards - (Sec. 202) Prohibits Federal agencies from accepting State issued driver's licenses or identification cards unless such documents are determined by the Secretary to meet minimum security requirements, including the incorporation of specified data, a common machine-readable technology, and certain anti-fraud security features.

Sets forth minimum issuance standards for such documents that require: (1) verification of presented information; (2) evidence that the applicant is lawfully present in the United States; (3) issuance of temporary driver's licenses or identification cards to persons temporarily present that are valid only for their period of authorized stay (or for one year where the period of stay is indefinite); (4) a clear indication that such documents may not be accepted for Federal purposes where minimum issuance standards are not met; and (5) electronic access by all other States to the issuing State's motor vehicle database.

(Sec. 203) Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit trafficking in actual as well as false authentication features for use in false identification documents, document-making implements, or means of identification. Requires the Secretary to enter into the appropriate aviation security screening database information regarding persons convicted of using false driver's licenses at airports.

(Sec. 204) Authorizes the Secretary to make grants to assist States in conforming to the minimum standards set forth in this title.

(Sec. 205) Gives the Secretary all authority to issue regulations, set standards, and issue grants under this title. Authorizes the Secretary to grant States an extension of time to meet the minimum document requirements and issuance standards of this title, with adequate justification.

(Sec. 206) Repeals overlapping document provisions of the IRTPA.

(Sec. 207) States that nothing in this title shall be construed to affect the authorities and responsibilities of the Secretary of Transportation or the States under existing laws governing the establishment of a National Driver Register.
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Why won't all the people who are so worried about a National ID actually explain what is wrong with having one?

If anything, I would love to be opposed to the idea (especially if the Republican party is in favor of it), but I just can't figure out why it will matter.

You already need an ID to get a driver license, buy a gun, buy a car, buy a house, open a checking account, vote, take out a loan, check into a hotel, cash a check, etc. Plus, with all the information the government requires on the 1040 tax form, there really isnt much about me they don't already have access to.
 
LG - lemme try

Yes, it's true, you now have to present some form of ID for a great many transactions but not ALL of them - yet !!
Once a supposedly 'uniform' ID is in place ( RFID card/chip/whatever) more and more transactions will require said ID ( buying gasoline, groceries etc.- the list is endless and only restrained by the imagination of those who want transactions tracked, be they gov't or private business).
This will start us down the path of the 'cashless society'
and without 'proper ID' you may be not be able to do MANY of the things you now take for granted.
Now, all the the databases used in this tracking will be riddled with errors, ( trust me on this - my background is LARGE mainframe installations and databases for more years than I like to think about ! ) duplications, just erroneous information.
You think getting 'identity thieft' is a nightmare now, just wait until you run up against endless bureaucrats whose answer to EVERYTHING is 'but the computer says .....!!!
( try getting your credit rating 'straightened out' now and you will get a MILD taste. )
Similar names/addresses etc. and your appearance will have NOTHING to do with it ( yes, I know the computer says you're only 23, and you do have grey hair/wrinkles and walk with a cane but the computer MUST be right !!!).
This is NOT a solution, just a way, with just a few key strokes to slowly tighten the noose about you and your life and tell you what you can and can't do ( electronically ) - 'we've examined your records and there is no way you should be buying 30 gals of gasoline a week so from now on, your gasoline purchases will be limited' - 'BUT I need the gasoline to get to and from work' - NOT according to our records - you only have a 5 mile commute ( according to the toll pass installed on your car ) ' - 'Your records are wrong' - Nope, the computer says ................'
Like I said, a nightmare, with NO recourse.

Short personal experience -
Buying beer in New Mexico -
EVERY purchase is 'verified' !
In a large grocery store, by a police officer checking everyone who goes into or out of the aisle where the beer is kept !
At a small conveience store you must surrender your drivers license which is then swiped and the information ( what information is on YOUR license ?? Do you know ?) goes into SOME DATABASE SOMEWHERE - the clerk has no idea where it goes or what information goes ( 'Sorry, we HAVE TO DO IT !' )
and I don't look ANYTHING like someone who just turned 21-
my age is FAR beyond that and it's obvious. I walked out without the beer !
This 'solution' will solve NOTHING - ALL of this stuff can and will be hacked/counterfited/duplicated/sold/stolen on and on.
Think it over carefully and think of the potential, especially in the hands of someone who views 'control' of the population as a good thing before you simply say ' what's wrong with this'.
In a phrase - a LOT is wrong or will be with this 'solution'.
 
.I don't buy it. They can do all of that now. Granted, not as easily, but it is still possible. With all of the argument over illegal aliens and possible terrorists sneaking in the country, I think that a standard method of pesonal ID is a good idea.

I've already got a driver's license, CCW, FFL, six NFA Form 4s, six years active duty, employer's ID card (city government), voter ID card, CPR card, SSN card, credit cards, credit rating, homestead exemption, mortgage, automobile registration, life insurance, health insurance, motor vehicle insurance, High School Diploma, College records, Income tax records, magazine subscriptions, countless discount cards and even a forklift driver's license. They've got my fingerprints, photograph, dental xrays, chest xrays and DNA.

There is virtually nothing the government cannot already find out about me. It is already computerized and readily accessible.

Why do I fear standardizing IDs?
 
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