Real Id Act

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"With all of the argument over illegal aliens and possible terrorists sneaking in the country, I think that a standard method of pesonal ID is a good idea."


Yeah. Sure. Try asking a cop to check the ID of the hundreds of illegal aliens hanging around the "day worker" areas, instead of driving past them just to screw with some poor schumuck for changing lanes without a turn signal. Do it in front of a "day worker" area with hundreds of Illegal Aliens standing there in plain sight, and see who he checks out, you, or the Illegal Aliens standing there still dripping water.

We won't throw out twelve million illegals, but you think making me submit to a Federal ID number, is going to keep out illegals? It's going to stop terrorists, for me to have a Federal ID? How? It's against Federal law to profile. I'm sure Terrorists coming in with the Illegals, knowing they will be given a free pass due to Congress voting for Amnesty, are going to worry about producing an ID card. Those guys are not stupid.

They know racial profiling is banned, due to it being politically incorrect. Nobody would dare try to ask them for an ID, unless they are in an airport. Simple as that. However, they would ask you, or me, because they won't get in trouble screwing with an American citizen.

Why not just require everyone to have a microchip inserted in their body. What is the big deal? To heck with the right wing religious kooks and their screwy religious beliefs!
If someone is Muslim, the U.S. worries about their religious beliefs. But if a Christian doesn't want to have a microchip implant or an RFID Identity card due to his or her Christian beliefs, they get labeled as tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts.

Instead, how about we make sure young, middle eastern males entering the country from Syria, Iraq, Iran, and places that teach it is okay to kill people that are not members of the same religion, just don't come here? How about that, instead of making a guy that was born and raised here, get labeld with a number in a government databse subject to huge screw ups???????

Wait til you are told to "produce your number card" and some jackass has typed in a wrong name in a database linked to your number, and some government employee reads your mispelled name. You are then off to the justice system that can hold you for years, without charge. You will love that.

When I went for my kid's driver's license trainee permit from the State of Texas, we produced his student photo ID from High School, a certified copy of his birth certificate, and an original Texas Hunters Safety Course Photo ID Card, issued to him by the State of Texas.

The State of Texas DPS employee, would not allow him to take his driving test saying the State of Texas, would not accept a photo ID issued by the State of Texas, due to a Federal law, that would only accept the kid's Federal Social Security Card. And that was to get a State Document. This is how stupid it gets.

An earlier post by someone said "try and fix a credit reporting agency snafu and see how far you get". I will tell you EXACTLY how that will turn out, each and every time. You will get told it is repaired by a CSR, and you will pull a credit report every month til the day you die, and that credit report snafu will appear there, just as long as that agency decides they want to report it incorrectly, and you will not, unless you PAY A 'credit repair fee".

I deal with credit reports on a daily basis, in my business. I will tell you honestly, the very last thing you want to occur is to be totally held to a number in a database run by low wage employees who hold you life and future in the hands they type with.

Just off the top of my head, these are just a few of the reasons I don't want to be a computerized number, in a Federal ID database.
 
If we're going to need a Federally issued ID to conduct business usually done with a State ID, why even have a state ID?
And, for that matter, why have any state documentation at all?
When is comes down to it, why even have state governments?
If the Feds can determine what identification we need then they have made the state government obsolete. The very makeup of this nation is built upon state's rights. We have 50 states to ensure that the federal government doesn't have too much control over us. A national ID effectively eliminates the sovereignty of each state.
What's next, national license plates on our cars, national police in our cities and towns, national helathcare in our hospitals?.....

And how do they plan on making sure that every citizen has one of these IDs? Will we see federal checkpoints pop up on major highways and at state border crossings or will it simply be a matter of swiping your card when you start your car? Or the newly created Federal Department of Identification and Security will go door to door checking to see who has their ID ready.
Maybe the kids will swipe their cards as they go to school or the mall. Perhaps our bank accounts will be built in to his system and the government will freeze our assets if we refuse to participate. You can bet that somewhere down the road there will be a movement to include gun ownership and voting records into our National Personell File.

So, no, there aren't any risks to our freedom with the introduction of a national ID.


*KNOCK-KNOCK-KNOCK* " Papers, please."
 
I agree with HK, I just still don't see a real problem here. Anything the government wants to know about me, they are going to find out, ID or not.

I think the recent NSA phone-monitoring scandal proves that.
 
I STILL haven't seen any "national ID". All this legislation does is set a minimum standard for states issuing ID cards and driver's licenses. It really doesn't even do that. It prohibits federal agencies from accepting an ID unless the state meets the minimum standard requirements.

So why do we not want each state to require the same information before issuing a license and why do we not want each state to issue a license that is not easily copied or faked?
 
I don't understand the extreme paranoia about this issue.

If you want to be paranoid, pick a better topic, like the Patriot Act, or NSA wiretapping, but this real ID is just not as big a deal as people want to believe.
 
There is no purpose for a National ID except to infringe the tax paying, voting, peoples rights

In California, hospitals, schools and public institutions cannot refuse services to illegal aliens - most don't even want to refuse them services

If you are illegal in California you are not required to follow the rules - Rules (in California) only apply to people with Jobs, Income, Security things like that.

So when you are illegal and don't have an ID you get "let off" for minor infractions like driving without a license or having an accident and not having insurance - the police aren't going to take you to jail - they are already overcrowded. If you need medical care you go to the emergency room, sign any papers they shove at you - it doesn't matter becasue you have no ID and aren't going to pay anyway.

HOW WILL A NATIONAL ID CHANGE THIS? States like California will still give free aid to illegal aliens. If you can carry it off just mumble "no abla engleesh" and carry no ID - what are the consequeces?

With this thought in mind - I can only see a National ID as a tool to be used AGAINST US citizens... that is UNTIL there is a penalty for NOT being a citizen and NOT following the rules.
 
I know that Alfredo "Herr Himmler" Gonzales is reading this, but I figure it's only fair to warn him--if it ever comes time to install a mandatory RFID in me, he might as well not bother, because at that point the S has hit the F, and I'll be tossing lead at anyone coming my way as long as I have a breath of life in my body. After that, well, they might as well safe the chip, because when I'm dead they won't have much trouble keeping tabs on me.

This scares me a hell of a lot more than the statistically insignificant chance that I'll ever be a victim of terrorism.

I don't know what the breaking point is for most of you. I don't even know what it is for me. I do know that implanting an RFID in my body is well past that breaking point.
 
Camp David
But it is a barrier to those attempting to illegally claim citizenship
So if this is going to be a measure of citizenship, what will I need to produce to obtain one? Birth certificate? SSAN card? Other "proof"?

If so, why not simply continue to use them? Why must we all be tagged and tracked like bovines to solve what is a government created problem to begin with?

------------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Once a supposedly 'uniform' ID is in place ( RFID card/chip/whatever) more and more transactions will require said ID ( buying gasoline, groceries etc.- the list is endless and only restrained by the imagination of those who want transactions tracked, be they gov't or private business).
This will start us down the path of the 'cashless society'

Sad,

This is too far ahead for the average American to even contemplate.
It's Friday and most haven't even planned their weekend yet and haven't
balanced their checkbooks for the past month.

WHERE is this mythological bill and/or law for a "NATIONAL ID"???

This is a perfect example of trying to deflect the issue as contained in
the "Real ID" act. There will be national standards set for data storage
and encryption on the chip which will be the same no matter which states
issues the card. It is also likely that only a handful of companies will make
the machines that make the cards (as I've detailed elsewhere on these
threads).

And, yet, no one will answer the question as to WHY a chip in my ID,
especially one with RFID properties as now made by these handful of
companies actually makes society any safer? The illegal aliens will still
show the same lame paper docs and they will get the IDs anyway because
the feds are encouraging them to come into the country to stay.

I only have to look at a few of today's headlines to know the gov't
continues its data-trawling unabated:

http://www.newsobserver.com/110/story/446067.html
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_8753.shtml

For all of you who have no problem with this and feel that the feds will
have no future nefarious purposes in tracking you, please PM the following
to me:

Your real Name, address, phone, DOB, SSN, heigh, weight, race.

Now I assure you that you can trust me with this information because I AM
currently a law-abiding citizen.

Ok, I'm waiting.......
 
LAK said:
So if this is going to be a measure of citizenship, what will I need to produce to obtain one? Birth certificate? SSAN card? Other "proof"?

If so, why not simply continue to use them? Why must we all be tagged and tracked like bovines to solve what is a government created problem to begin with?

I sense your frustration and I agree with your main point...

But...

Problem is here now... incriminations against gov't are certainly warranted and you are right that they caused problem...

But...

What to do? We need to do something in terms of an identification card to prevent illegal aliens from using fake IDs...I have already admitted that this National ID (RealID) is not foolproof but it might help...

As such doesn't it deserve support?

Doing nothing is what we've done for the last decade or more... doing something (this RealID and other initiatives) is a start... Complaining about gov't accomplishes nothing...
 
We need to do something in terms of an identification card to prevent illegal aliens from using fake IDs...

It use to be that not speaking a country's language was a sure way of
flagging you for the authorities to investigate further.

Interviewer: "Where were you born?"

Subject (through his interpreter): "Marthas Vineyard."

Interviewer: "Were your parents just visiting there when you were born?"

Subject (through his interpreter): "No, my parent's have lived there for
generations."

Interviewer: "Mmmkay....we're going to look into this a little further before
we can hire you."

Oh, wait, we're NOT ALLOWED to have interviews like that are we here
in America? ;)

Yet, if I go to (insert comfortable European country here) with forged
papers and can't speak the local language I get flagged (more likely
DETAINED) immediately.
 
...the sand.

Yes, trust the gov't. As I mentioned in another post, you can trust me
too --I'm still waiting for people to send me their REAL names, addresses,
phone numbers, DOBs, and SSNs. I promise just to hold onto them. I am
currently a law-abiding US citizen so you can trust me just as much as
your law-abiding gov't! :rolleyes:
 
Camp David,

The created problem is already critical I think we can agree then.
What to do? We need to do something in terms of an identification card to prevent illegal aliens from using fake IDs...I have already admitted that this National ID (RealID) is not foolproof but it might help
However, you have not addressed the actual issue of these "Real[F]IDs".

What are people going to have to furnish as "proof" of citizenship to get them? The same old credentials that "can be faked".

Right now we do not need to be tagged, we need a purging while a heavy brake is placed on the cross country border traffic. Anyone that can not produce the usual credentials needs to be questioned and investigated. Those that would produce them - like me - need to have their credentials verified.

Those that have entered illegally get fingerprinted, photographed and shipped back to place of origin - with a reminder that second time around will be hard labor saving wear and tear, fuel and other high costs of using heavy equipment to repair and make roads in this country for a few years. Third time around for about ten years

Some would still slip through, but not even a minute fraction of one percent. That is about as foolproof as it going to get. Second time arounders will probably not try it again after busting and loading road rubble with a pick and shovel for three years or so. The bonus is no electronic tags and tracking for citizens of our country.

------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
LAK said:The biggest problem with a national ID I have is that it is a solution to a knowingly created problem. Had entry requirements into our country been as they were sixty years ago - and a serious patrolling of the border - a significant problem would not exist.

The authors of this policy have had their own agenda; creating their new Pan-America State - and tighter control over everyone. These criminals should have been impeached and brought up on criminal charges as appropriate a long time ago.

Instead, I am expected to be part of their "solution" - or labeled something trendy and perhaps prosecuted if I refuse to take part.
Exactly my feelings on the matter as well.
 
Why won't all the people who are so worried about a National ID actually explain what is wrong with having one?

If anything, I would love to be opposed to the idea (especially if the Republican party is in favor of it), but I just can't figure out why it will matter.

You already need an ID to get a driver license, buy a gun, buy a car, buy a house, open a checking account, vote, take out a loan, check into a hotel, cash a check, etc. Plus, with all the information the government requires on the 1040 tax form, there really isnt much about me they don't already have access to.
The problem with it is that it consolidates power at the federal level over the lives of individual Americans. Once the real ID becomes a requirement to function in society, all the cards regarding your individual life will be held by the central government of the United States. Currently, that is not the case regarding driver's licenses, and the like. Don't you perceive a danger in that? It is quite ominous to anyone with their eyes open and any understanding at all of the history of the 20th Century.
 
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Hawkeye, what are functions are they planning on using it for?

Basically, it is my understanding that this is not a federal ID, but a state issued ID that meets certain federal requirements. Am I misunderstanding that?

I didnt think it would be used for anything that a drivers license isnt already used for.
 
I didnt think it would be used for anything that a drivers license isnt already used for.
A slave master doesn't secure a steel collar around your neck because it's pretty. At some point he plans to attach a chain to it.
 
A slave master doesn't secure a steel collar around your neck because it's pretty. At some point he plans to attach a chain to it.

Could you be more specific, what do you see happening exactly, if we have a national ID?

Could you give me one specific example of what you foresee the government trying to use the national ID for?
 
It would be interesting to see what states already have ID cards that meet the standards the federal government wants. I wonder how many of these people complaining already have the little magnetic strip down the back.
 
Could you be more specific, what do you see happening exactly, if we have a national ID?

Could you give me one specific example of what you foresee the government trying to use the national ID for?
I assume that when you say "the government" you are referring to the Federal Government. The Federal Government, however, is not behaving very much like a federal government when it imposes things like this on the States and the people of the States. It is behaving like a super-state. That in itself should give you pause. What will "the government" do? It will do what every powerful, consolidated, central, super-state has always done, i.e., it will attempt to make use of this new power in order to exert a greater degree of internal control over the behavior of individual citizens. Because, as if instinctively, it "realizes" that the most dangerous thing to the continued existence of a central super-state is liberty. This is the nature of super-states. When they usurp powers, liberty is diminished by exactly that amount. The more power we allow them to usurp, the more power they will feel they need, and the more power they will usurp, until it is all theirs, and there is nothing left of liberty. Any move in the direction of greater empowerment of the central super-state, therefore, is necessarily a step in the wrong direction from a liberty perspective.

The Federal Government's primary, almost exclusive, purpose for existence is to represent the States as a unity to the outside world, not to impose its will on the States which it represents. This is all about turning the tables on Federalism. The more it is done, the more of it the unitary central super-state will demand. It's appetite is insatiable by nature, which is why the Founders were so opposed to creating a central super-state, restricting the powers of the Federal Government to those, almost exclusively, which look outwards at the world, rather than inwards towards the States and the citizens of the States.

Super-states always tend towards tyranny. If you feed it with what it desires, i.e., more power, it will only become more hungry for that. The more power it has, the less liberty we retain, until we are its slaves. That's why instead of a central super-state, the founders gave us federalism, featuring State governments which were sovereign within their boarders, and a strictly limited central unifying government, whose powers were few, defined, delegated, enumerated, and almost exclusively outward-looking. This keeps our individual interaction with government a very local matter, where we can, as individuals, keep tight wraps on it. When, however, we are being controlled from a central authority in DC, there is very little anyone can do to check this as an individual, and unchecked power invariably tends toward tyranny. This is so invariably true, that it is almost like a law of nature.

So, to answer your question: "Could you give me one specific example of what you foresee the government trying to use the national ID for?" The answer is that it will do exactly what central super-states have done in the past with such centrally administered forms of identification. It will use it as a means of exerting control for its own benefit.
 
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