Real Id Act

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A ban on private financial transactions without presenting state-issued, federally-mandated ID.

They could do that now with the ID's we already have, couldnt they?

I agree with the points you are making Hawkeye about the behavior of government, but I just don't see how a standardized ID will change anything. I see it as nothing more than feel-good legislation that will accomplish nothing, good or bad.
 
A ban on private financial transactions without presenting state-issued, federally-mandated ID.
They could ban every privately owned firearm in the United States tomorrow.

Just because they can do something doesn't mean they will do it. The lack of ID standards would not prevent a ban on private financial transactions. They could drop the $10,000 limit on cash transactions to $100 quite easily. They could do away with cash and make money digital. They could cancel Christmas.
 
They could ban every privately owned firearm in the United States tomorrow.

Just because they can do something doesn't mean they will do it. The lack of ID standards would not prevent a ban on private financial transactions. They could drop the $10,000 limit on cash transactions to $100 quite easily. They could do away with cash and make money digital. They could cancel Christmas.
And all those things, and more, will become a lot easier once there is a standardized, federally regulated, form of ID that you are required to acquire and keep in your possession in order to drive a car. As it stands, I have not one federally compliant form of identification which I am required to carry with me. I'd like to keep it that way.
 
And all those things, and more, will become a lot easier once there is a standardized, federally regulated, form of ID that you are required to acquire and keep in your possession in order to drive a car.

I just don't see how an ID of any kind would make it easier for the government to do any of that.

For example, look at the ban on private financial transactions someone mentioned. Why does it matter if you have a national ID to ban those transactions? They could ban private transactions right now unless a state driver's license is shown.
 
The danger is that it will now be easier for the Federal Government to keep track of more aspects of your heretofore private actions. Anytime something is federalized, it is centralized. We liberty minded folks prefer decentralization to centralization for good reason. Centralization makes tyranny easier. Decentralization makes tyranny more cumbersome and difficult to pull off. Why is this confusing you? This is civics 101. :confused:
 
When I took Civics, everyone wasn't paranoid of the government.

Sorry, but the arguments don't hold water. I think this bill will make things better for the common folk. If they haul me off to a concentration camp, feel free to say, "I told you so!" First one to turn in the Form 4's can have my machineguns.
 
The danger is that it will now be easier for the Federal Government to keep track of more aspects of your heretofore private actions.

I really don't think so.

Let's take the example someone cited of the federal ID being required for private financial transactions (which we all agree is not part of the current proposal, right?),

So Hawkeye sells me a box of widgets for $1000. I am required to show Hawkeye my ID to comply with the law. Hawkeye jots down my ID number, and I take home my widgets. It doesn't matter if its my driver license or a federal ID, does it? I mean, the problem is being required to show any ID for that transaction, not just a federal ID.

I am opposed to any law that requires ID for private transactions. That is where the problem lies, not the type of ID.
 
For example, look at the ban on private financial transactions someone mentioned. Why does it matter if you have a national ID to ban those transactions? They could ban private transactions right now unless a state driver's license is shown.
I probably shouldn't have used the term 'ban', which everyone is now fixating on. The problem with the Real ID act is that it would easily permit a real-time purchasing database under federal control. I don't care to have the government keeping track of my purchases, particularly with the problem of false positives.

It doesn't matter if its my driver license or a federal ID, does it? I mean, the problem is being required to show any ID for that transaction, not just a federal ID.
It does matter. If the information gathered from the ID varies from state to state, the database being created is that much less useful. Hence the need for national standards for identification information.

- Chris
 
Could someone please give me citations in the Real ID Act for the following requirements:
  • a nationally-issued ID card
  • a RFID chip in an ID card
  • that any ID card (state or national) MUST be carried at all times
Please don't bother to respond with long-winded assertions that the requirements are in the law - cite the specific sections of the law where the requirements are contained so that I can read them myself.
 
When I took Civics, everyone wasn't paranoid of the government.
What a shame for you. When I took civics, they taught us something of the views of the Founders regarding the dangers of consolidated government and unchecked power. We learned what the word "usurpation" meant, and the like. I guess you must have taken it very recently. I also recall being encouraged to be proud that, unlike those who live under tyranny, we had no internal passports or national ID papers which are traditionally used by despotic regimes to keep track of the movements and activities of their captive peoples. I was also assigned to read Animal Farm and 1984 as reminders to be ever vigilant against the marks of despotism, but then, again, you must have studied civics more recently than I did. I was a kid in the 1960s and '70s.
 
It does matter. If the information gathered from the ID varies from state to state, the database being created is that much less useful. Hence the need for national standards for identification information.

- Chris
Precisely. Efficiency in despotism is the last thing we need. Federalism is the least efficient form of government in which for tyrannies to form. The more we move away from it, such as the case of centralizing identification and tracking methods, the closer we inevitably come to tyranny.
 
Could someone please give me citations in the Real ID Act for the following requirements:

a nationally-issued ID card
It amounts to the same thing. They tried to get a full blown national ID card a few years ago, but people were so outraged, they backed off. This was their back door method to the same result.
that any ID card (state or national) MUST be carried at all times.
You must carry your driver's license to drive, and many functions right now require a driver's license. Additionally, I believe, though I could be mistaken, that the Supreme Court has recently ruled that if a cop stops you, even walking on the street, and asks for ID, you pretty much have to comply. How much do you want to bet that they will not accept your library card?
 
The Real Hawkeye:

I respect your general aversion to the Real ID Act, but you do not need to deflect questions directed at those who make specific clams about the language contained in the act. If the requirements that some have claimed are in the Act, I want someone to cite the specific sections. If not, they can make the type of honest, reasoned arguments that you have posed.
 
Additionally, I believe, though I could be mistaken, that the Supreme Court has recently ruled that if a cop stops you, even walking on the street, and asks for ID, you pretty much have to comply.
I think that you are correct, but I also think that there is no requirement to carry any type of ID card when walking around.
 
I think that you are correct, but I also think that there is no requirement to carry any type of ID card when walking around.
I don't know. In today's political climate, that could be grounds for reasonable suspicion, depending on the context.
 
Me too. Graduated in 1978. Prompty joined the military and rode a submarine for six years to protect God and Country.
I, for one, appreciate your service. I bet it was fascinating to be in a sub for about the first two days.
 
Lone Gunman
I just don't see how an ID of any kind would make it easier for the government to do any of that.
The fed gov does not have to do it all itself. Banks will simply start requiring it for all account and check cashing transactions etc. It's all downhill from there.

--------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Quote:
"So why do we not want each state to require the same information before issuing a license and why do we not want each state to issue a license that is not easily copied or faked?"

First, anything can be faked.


And the reason we do not want Federal control of local decisions, is because it stops your local government legislative body (the one closest and most answerable to your home) from reflecting and enacting into law, YOUR SPECIFIC WANTS AND IDEAS about how you and your family will be governed under civil law and transfers it (against Constitutional intent) to the Federal Legislative branch which is farthest from your home, and less answerable to you. What that does is lessen the power of us to guide government as the Founders intended and set forth in writing within the Constitution, to maintain control of government, through ...." A GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE."

You see, we are supposed to hold ultimate control of all aspects of the Legislative, Judicial, and Executive branches, IN ADDITION TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Keep in mind, the most important duty of the Federal Government, is to protect our shores against invasion.

As you can readily see with the ongoing invasion of our shores by 12 million illegal aliens, invading across our Southern Border as you read this, the Federal Government is more than inept, at fulfilling its duty to do so.

(If you read Article I, Section VIII, Clause four, fifteen, and sixteen, and then read Article IV's final clause, you will see exactly what I mean when I say "Federal Government" is inept at fulfilling its duty to do so)

Imagine, if your entire life is controlled by the Federal Government workers typing in your "number" incorrectly, and your "number" being corrupted with information from another "number" by a government employee with the same exact attitude and efficiency you receive at the Social Security office, or IRS office.

You may remember the Senate hearings on the IRS outrages held about five years ago. Believe me, you would not want that level of performance controlling the determination of WHO YOU ARE, and what you have been accused of doing, due to a typo in a Governmental Database. If you have had the misfortune to ever had a CSR somewhere screw up an entry into your Credit Report at either TransUnion, Equifax, or Experian, (which you will never, ever, get resolved) then it becomes much more spooky to realize you can become permanantly labeled anything.

P.S. I just want to say, I appreciate (very much) your service to the citizens of our Nation. It is guys like you who will be the only chance of keeping the Representative Republic Ben Franklin challenged us all to keep.
 
ID is already required by the bank for that.
Do you really think that this is the point he was making? You must think that LAK is pretty dim witted. :confused:

His point, however, is that this particular form of ID is something mandated and regulated by the Federal Government. The problem is with the power usurped by the Federal Government to dictate to our States what kind of IDs we must have and use for ID in such things as banking (Banks will naturally require the most secure form of ID available). This is a further centralization of power, which is the problem. Power, once taken, will be used for more than just the stated purpose. Has nothing to do with the fact that banks require you to prove who you are.
 
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