Real life with moDean .38 defensive loads?

[ZVP]

I have a model 36 no dash ND a model 10 HB. I only. Shoot non- Plus-P loads and shoot the Horniday factory loaded 135gr HP bullet.
Seriously, how effective is such a .38 Special as a defensive gun?
I know the caliber has served for decades for M& P applications and currently has taken a backseat to more powerful calibers.
From what I have read, my load is just below a basic factory 9am.I can't buy another gun due to a very limited budget.
Is there any supporting record or evidence that supports the effective function of my ammo would it be a fight stopper with single or double C/M hits?
I am wheelchair bound and can barely use my Prosthetic leg as yet. I am basically defenseless and an easy target without my .38's!!!
Please give any supporting evidence that could answer my qiestionwith the exception of grooved triggers these revolvers see? Perfect to me and I am counting on the "Battle Record " and reputation of my .38 Special revolvers for the protection of my Wife. Self, and Castle!
Please help my inscurities and worries aside. I am confident of the function of the revolvers a d the v great fit of my aftermarket grips and am practicing D/A shootingmost of all is this Speer factory load sufficent???

 

[Panzerschwein]

The .38 special, with the right load, is excellent IMHO.

Recoil is manageable, follow up shots are faster than other rounds like .357 magnum. With a good load, such as the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain Short Barrel +P load or the classic 158 grain +P Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point (LSWCHP), they are more than capable of stopping a human attacker with good shot placement.

Both your Model 36 and especially your Model 10 are FINE with +P loads. There really are few standard pressure .38 special loads that I can recommend you, when these excellent +P loads are available.

 

[ATLDave]

The current dominant school of thought regarding terminal ballistics (the science of what and how bullets do what they do inside bodies) is that handgun bullets wound in fairly simple ways... basically, crush path (i.e., the actual tissue touched by the bullet while it retains significant speed). Under that school of thought, what matters is whether the crush path intersects something significant (and/or the attacker chooses to quit attacking before physical incapacitation).

Examined from that perspective, the differences between different handgun rounds tends to be fairly minimal, provided you've got "enough" penetration, which can certainly be achieved with .38 special ammo. This school of thought would direct you towards heavier bullets at moderate velocities, to pay less attention to expansion than to penetration and weight retention, and to completely disregard kinetic energy as a metric. And it would tell you to focus on "shot placement" - i.e., hitting something vital, quickly, and reliably.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The current dominant school of thought regarding terminal ballistics (the science of what and how bullets do what they do inside bodies) is that handgun bullets wound in fairly simple ways... basically, crush path (i.e., the actual tissue touched by the bullet while it retains significant speed). Under that school of thought, what matters is whether the crush path intersects something significant (and/or the attacker chooses to quit attacking before physical incapacitation).

Examined from that perspective, the differences between different handgun rounds tends to be fairly minimal, provided you've got "enough" penetration, which can certainly be achieved with .38 special ammo. This school of thought would direct you towards heavier bullets at moderate velocities, to pay less attention to expansion than to penetration and weight retention, and to completely disregard kinetic energy as a metric. And it would tell you to focus on "shot placement" - i.e., hitting something vital, quickly, and reliably.

Yeah, what he said!

ZVP: Your .38s are not only "enough" for self defense, they are excellent IMHO. They are more than enough for the job. Focus on shot placement, and carry a good load such as the ones I mentioned in my first post. Don't be afraid of +P, it won't hurt your gun and is only about 10% more powerful than standard ammo, but the best performers in .38 special and the +P loads.

PS: Do you have speedloaders? It would be a great idea to carry a couple spare speedloaders on your wheelchair.

 

[ilmonster]

.38 Spcl, especially in +P configuration has a very good street record of stopping the threat. I carry Speer Gold Dot 135 gr+P in my Ruger LCR and feel well protected. Someones posts who you may wish to research are Massad Ayoob's. He is a former police officer, expert witness, self defense writer and trainer, etc. (yes, I have taken one of his classes). There is another forum for a particular plastic pistol in which he hosts a section on handgun self defense and has many posts about real shootings using the .38 Spcl and also mentions some major police agencies that have proscribed the GD 135 +P as their .38 Spcl duty ammo. Cheers!

 

[MICHAEL T]

38 spl will work fine I have only older 36 and 49 S&W pistols . I ve used +P for years. Today's +P is pretty much old days standard 38 spl. Before the down loading .

I still use the old 158 gr LSWCHP in mine If you using the 135gr HP Your likely shooting low. The old guns were sight was set for the 158 gr bullet. Won't really matter close up .But a distance shot might.

 

[Jenrick]

I'm a full time LE firearms instructor, and have done a lot of ballistic testing at work. .38 Spl has loads that range from pathetic to very good, just like most other calibers. Speer's 135 grn Gold Dot +P round performs basically like their Gold Dot 124gr 9mm +P with slightly less penetration and expansion (not enough to be significant). Th 124gr +P 9mm Gold Dot, was for a long time one of the best rounds available in any caliber. Other manufactures have similar rounds with similar performance. I'd highly recommend these modern loadings which are designed to meet the needs of LE, over some of the "classic loadings." While the "classic" options (upside down hollow base wadcutters), might work there is not testing to determine how well they will work. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, about how well they worked, but very little hard data. Modern bullets have a lot of science backing them, and they perform very well in testing, and that testing matches very well how the round performs in the real world.

Shot placement is always key, but a good bullet can help with less then perfect hits as rarely does the suspect stand still like the target at the range does.

-Jenrick

 

[gbran]

You really need a .357 revolver in which to launch your .38 cuz the 357's are too vigorous.

 

[Water-Man]

Along with the Gold Dot load that has been mentioned, I also like the Buffalo Bore 158gr. SWC-HC STANDARD pressure.

 

[MedWheeler]

gbran writes:

You really need a .357 revolver in which to launch your .38 cuz the 357's are too vigorous.

Uh, what?

 

[cocojo]

I carry the Federal 110 Hydra-Shok in my Ruger lcr 38. Standard velocity ammo but I clocked this round out of my LCR at average of 935 feet per second, which is really in the plus p range. Shoots to poa in my gun and seemed to perform ok in most testings. Shot placement is key anyway, along with penetration and both are good.

 

[Panzerschwein]

OP: What barrel length is your Model 10?

If it's 4" and under, I would highly recommend the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P Short Barrel load for BOTH of your revolvers.

From a 2" barrel, this round is fantastic. It is considered the gold standard snub nose load. From a 4" barrel, expect performance to be even better, with about 50% more energy. It's a rare bird to find an "all around" .38 load that does well from both barrel lengths.

In fact, NYPD and (I think) LAPD issue this exact load not only for backup gun snub nose use, but also for the officers left packing 4" duty guns. That speaks volumes.

 

[TimSr]

I carry the Federal 110 Hydra-Shok in my Ruger lcr 38. Standard velocity ammo but I clocked this round out of my LCR at average of 935 feet per second, which is really in the plus p range.

+p is a chamber pressure designation, not velocity, and that particular loading was typical for non- +P guns.

 

[fireman 9731]

I have both of the guns you mentioned. I have been carrying my Model 36 lately and a heavy barreled model 10 is about the perfect revolver in my opinion. If I was wheelchair bound and concealment wasn't too big of an issue I would go with he model 10. You would not be at a disadvantage with just about any load with the exception of a light target load. They should all get the job done just fine. Just practice with what you want to use and remember that most 158gr loads should shoot to point of aim. Lighter bullets will shoot lower.

 

[Archie]

In the common tongue...

.38 Special ammunition, even from a short two inch barrel, will accomplish the self-defense task.

Yes, many groups and people have abandoned it. Mostly - agencies primarily - did so because they would not teach their troops to shoot (for many reasons) and thought a multi-shot magazine would fix the public relations problem.

I would not choose a M36 S&W revolver as my primary weapon for assaulting a fortified position or mounting a raid on the local Hell's Angels' headquarters. I presume you aren't planning such actions, either.

It will do well for self-defense with standard pressure hollow point ammunition or full flat fronted lead ammunition, IF the shooter hits accurately.

Then again, nothing much works if one doesn't shoot accurately.

 

[Jenrick]

Yes, many groups and people have abandoned it. Mostly - agencies primarily - did so because they would not teach their troops to shoot (for many reasons) and thought a multi-shot magazine would fix the public relations problem.

Actually I can speak with a lot of certainty that never has a police administrator EVER wanted his officers to be able to fire more rounds. More rounds means more liability. What really did the revolver out of police holsters across the country was cost. Even a budget model 10, was more expensive to acquire then a polymer pistol.

-Jenrick