REALLY odd question

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JackBauerWannabe

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
28
Location
dayton ohio
OK so I am a Film Production major in college and one of my Film Prod. buddies is making a short film that has Chinese Red Army soldiers in it, dated to be in the early to mid seventies.

One of the Chinese soldiers will fire his sidearm in the movie and execute someone, and I am trying to find a blank-firing replica pistol that would fit best in this situation.

Now I am pretty sure the chinese carried the 7.62mm Tokarev as their sidearm during this time, but I can't find a starter pistol (only blank firing) of this model. I have found a decent M1911 replica though.

My question is: would it be believable if you saw a chinese soldier from the seventies using a blued/wood grips 1911 in a movie? i think the chinese made some copies of this gun back then but i doubt they carried them.

Link to Starter pistols in general: http://www.starterpistol.com

Link to M1911 replica:
http://www.starterpistol.com/proddetail.php?prod=38-122

P.S. using real guns with blanks is NOT acceptable, that is still dangerous and I won't do it so don't suggest it! but you guys are smart, I know you wouldn't :cool:

Thanks guys!
 
Most people won't notice or care. And I bet the Red Army used whatever they could or whatever they could find.
 
I've considered airsoft, but these starter pistols fire real blank rounds (most fire 9mm blanks but this particular 1911 fires 8mm, which is some oddball starter pistol caliber). Basically these replicas operate exactly like a real firearm by ejecting the spent casing and using blowback action to reload a new round into the chamber. These starter pistols would look the most realistic on-screen. Airsoft guns would require visual effects work that wouldn't be as convincing i think...but if it could be done well it sounds like getting an airsoft tokarev or something would be better than the blank 1911.
 
People have been killed with blank guns. Don't fire one near someone's head or other vital area. That wadding is coming out very hard and fast.
 
much more realistic to use the airsoft...safer too

if you use a green gas pistol, the action will cycle...also there is a "pow" which would make adding sound effects easier in post production
 
yeah, thats why I'm not screwing around with anything that has a barrel. These starter pistols have no barrel, there is a small slit on top of the gun that releases the gasses. so there is no chance of a projectile (besides the ejected casing) exiting the gun. Because of the solid barrel there will be no muzzle flash so that will have to be done in post production.
 
if you go with airsoft, there is the propane coming out the muzzle.

just change the color and enhance in post for the muzzle flash
 
You'd be amazed how realistic Airsoft can look on film. Get a good looking replica and add the appropriate sound effect and use software to add the muzzle blast and you'll really "sell" the effect.

If you go with a starter pistol or other blank firing gun you are likely to be disapointed with the wild sound you capture. If you have to sweeten the sound afterwards anyway, why not just plan for that from the start and go with the Airsoft.

And, yes, it would throw me out of the moment if I saw a Chinese officer using a 1911. Any gun person would notice and think, "That's not right." It would be more obvious then using a correct looking Airsoft and dubbing in the sound and adding visual effects.
 
No a M1911 wouldn't work.

China was in the middle of the Cultural Revolution and just being armed with an American design gun could get you denounced as a counter-revolutionary and get you killed. I'm serious. (not that they'd be issued with one, or that you would be able to find ammo for it in poverty-stricken China of the 1970s.)

I witnessed one of the last public executions conducted in Shanghai in 1986, they definitely used Sov-blok pistols. (too far away to tell exactly what it was)

OTOH, if you can't find a pistol, they executed their fair share of people using AK47s and SKS' as well.

Don't forget, after an execution in China, the family is made to come up and pay for the bullet.
 
Last edited:
public executions continue in modern day china. i have seen them in henan province.

us lend lease 1911 were in service in china until the late 50's and are secondary reserve status today. i have seen them in reserve arsenals in henan.

the correct pistol would be a makarov type for an officer, or a tokarev type for a lower ranking officer or an enlisted man tasked with carrying.

CWL is correct in saying that china was in hard times in the early 70's. i have many chinese friends who prefer not to speak of the era. they are to a one ashamed of the black spot it is on CCP history. it was a time of fear and deprivation. violence against persons and property was sanctioned by the state and enacted by the red guard, which sought desperately to remove the influence of "the four olds" (customs, habits, culture, ideas).

the younger people have no idea of what actually happened, as they are taught a whitewashed version. my wife was born in luoyang in 1981 and still believes that the buddhist temples at longmen sha kir are original and that the faceless buddhas were damaged by westerners. she denies that 20 million people were murdered between 1965 and 1975 for political idealism or traditional thinking, or because someone just didn't like them and reported that they were a danger to the state. this on top of the 30 million that were killed between 1946 and 1965 during the expansion of CCP power.

if you need advice on your film i can connect you with people who were there/then that are fluent english speakers and are close to me.
 
A small revolver would look pretty natural as well. It would be reminiscent of that famous photo from Vietnam.
 
blue screen one pic over the other. or whatever the technique is called.
cant get any safer than pointing & firing a blank/primer only round at a point in space.
 
A small revolver would look pretty natural as well. It would be reminiscent of that famous photo from Vietnam.
Click to expand...

How would a S&W pistol used by the chief the national police of United States-allied RVN have anything to do with an execution in China? :rolleyes:
 
For the purpose of cinema, it could invoke a powerful image many people are familiar with.

But thanks for the attitude...
 
Wow! thanks for all the good (actually bad) historical info guys!

Up until now i've been bent on getting one of these blank starter pistols but some of you guys definitely believe I could make an airsoft gun look convincing. I have Adobe After Effects so I would be able to mask around the slide, pull it back, fill in the gap, and slide it forward into battery. I'm not a pro at AE though and im worried that i wouldn't make it look right. There are probably other film students who could help me out though. If i were to stick with the blank pistol, a makarov would work? they have a solid black one on the above mentioned website.

Some info about the movie: It is about a chinese Christian family/small community attempting to hold secret bible studies in the pastor's home. Then apparently the Chinese Red Army finds them and executes someone (the pastor I think?). This isn't my movie so I'm not sure what the point is or the rest of the story but I told my friend/fellow colleague that I would help her research the gun situation.

My college has never had students produce a film with guns in it before, so this will be a big deal if us freshmen can pull it off!
 
Many recent movies I've seen that use CG muzzle blasts don't even bother to add slide movement (especially Sci-Fi original movies). I've even seen a full auto burst from an AK-47 while the safety lever was up. :uhoh: Guns shooting while the hammer never moves from the down position, etc.

If you're not directing, you might not have control over this, but you can try to line up the shot at an angle that will make post production as easy as possible. You don't necessarily need a close up side view of the pistol shot. There's always green screen too if you need a close up of an actual gun shot.
 
Up until now i've been bent on getting one of these blank starter pistols but some of you guys definitely believe I could make an airsoft gun look convincing. I have Adobe After Effects so I would be able to mask around the slide, pull it back, fill in the gap, and slide it forward into battery. I'm not a pro at AE though and im worried that i wouldn't make it look right. There are probably other film students who could help me out though. If i were to stick with the blank pistol, a makarov would work? they have a solid black one on the above mentioned website.
Click to expand...

might i be misunderstanding you

when you fire a green gas operated airsoft pistol, the slide cycles just like on the real thing...that's why we're suggesting you go airsoft. all you need to do to make it appear "real" is cover/blend the orange "safety tip" on the barrel.

the other advantage is, assuming you're using something like Premiere, it makes a sound on firing which would cue where to add the gunshot. you can also use the exiting muzzle gas as an outline for adding the muzzle blast

i should add this i can't actually do this...i'm basing this off what my son says and what he can do with After Effects and Premiere. i'd have more details for you, but he's away at college at CalArts right now
 
As a side note, I watched a documentary on Bonnie and Clyde the other day on the History channel, during one of the gunfight scenes, the had a gang member using a Beretta M9 9mm! So not all producers/directors are as detail oriented as you, kudos.
 
An airsoft gas blowback gun on propane will get the slide action that you need for the shot, but there's not tokarev GBB that I know of.
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/tokarev353.JPG
A browning hi-power is going to be a better approximation than a 1911 I think, but still not quite there, and your site has one as a starter pistol :http://www.starterpistol.com/proddetail.php?prod=mod2000b

If you want to go the airsoft route, a hi-power is going to run way more than the starter pistol, but a walther ppk makes a pretty close facsimile of a makarov:
http://www.randymays.com/makarov.jpg
http://www.airarmsports.com/Walther-PPKS-Airsoft-Gas-Pistol-by-Maruzen/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Just curious about this....
Replies
1
Views
393
Car Knocker
C
F
  • Locked
Questions about broomhandles
Replies
3
Views
390
mete
M
N
  • Locked
Watching Red Dawn...
2 3 4
Replies
87
Views
6K
M2 Carbine
M
N
  • Locked
Black Powder replica for public shows
Replies
11
Views
990
c_yeager
C
The Freeholder
  • Locked
1911 reassembly question
Replies
1
Views
474
BlackJack
BlackJack
Back
Top