Really old Bullseye

[Gabes220]

Hello Everyone,

A friend recently unloaded about 3 pounds of Bullseye on me, but its real old. Came in an eight pound cardboard keg. Pics below:






The powder looks good but i don't know for sure how it was stored. I tested about 5 grains of it compared to a fresher batch of Bullseye and it seemed to flare up equally if not more. Think its safe to use/reliable enough for general target practice/competition? Any idea what year its from?

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[murf]

looks ok. i'd make sure there are no "clumps" in it and be extra allert for squib loads if you decide to shoot it.

how good of a reloader is your friend? how long did he have the keg? where did he store it (sunlight, next to heater, under the water sprinkler)? (type of questions to ask yourself)

murf

 

[Gabes220]

the gentleman who previously owned this powder has since passed and i didn't personally know him. I've been told he was a very meticulous reloader and took very good care of his gear. I'd only assume that it was stored correctly because the powder appears to be in good shape.

Has the recipe for Bullseye remained the same over time? Can i use my current reloading data to load for this powder?

 

[kingmt]

I would start testing it at half the starting load. It looks good. If you have a chrono it will tell you how close it is to being the same as your newer lot.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Aliant has a sample jar of Bullseye in the ballistics lab that's ove 100 years old and it still performs the same as when it was made.

Just follow good loading practice and enjoy the find.

 

[LynC2]

I have about 4 pounds left in a "keg" just like that one that was given to me a few years ago. I'm still shooting it up in my .45 & .38, the chronograph can't tell the difference from some new Bullseye that I had.

 

[moxie]

It's probably just fine. To be safe, start by reducing your intended load by 10%. (Not by half, as with many BE loads there won't be much left if you do that.) That's a good deal you got. That 3 pounds will make up, for example, 7500 rounds of .38 Spl. using 148 gr. wadcutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. That'll hold you for a while.

 

[Salmoneye]

That aint 'old'...

THIS is 'old'...



Just finished loading some .44 Mag 'plinking' loads with this old stuff...It does not look like 'Modern' Red Dot, as it is a true 'Flake' powder...The 'Newer' stuff is flat and has a hole in it, whereas the older stuff is shaped like pieces of popcorn hull (has a curve) and no hole...

I have chrony'ed the same charges in .38 Special (3.3gr), and .357 Magnum (5.0gr), and the velocities are statistically identical between old and 'newer' cannisters...

 

[kingmt]

It's probably just fine. To be safe, start by reducing your intended load by 10%. (Not by half, as with many BE loads there won't be much left if you do that.) That's a good deal you got. That 3 pounds will make up, for example, 7500 rounds of .38 Spl. using 148 gr. wadcutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. That'll hold you for a while.

Here is the thing. It is open powder that he thinks is Bullseye. It is possible that it is unstable. If the intended load is around max say 5gn reducing to 4.5gn isn't going to help much. I work with unknown powders some. It is always better to use to little then to much. Since it is Bullseye it is allready very fast is the reason I don't suggest lowering it more. Half will still get the bullet out. It shouldn't cycle the slide if it is a pistol.

My advice did not need corrected but thanks for the input.

 

[ljnowell]

Here is the thing. It is open powder that he thinks is Bullseye. It is possible that it is unstable. If the intended load is around max say 5gn reducing to 4.5gn isn't going to help much. I work with unknown powders some. It is always better to use to little then to much. Since it is Bullseye it is allready very fast is the reason I don't suggest lowering it more. Half will still get the bullet out. It shouldn't cycle the slide if it is a pistol.

My advice did not need corrected but thanks for the input.

I think the point is that since bullseye is so fast, there isnt going to be much faster than it. So if you reduce a starting charge by 10%, even if it is faster, its not going to be a problem, why go so low as 50%? If anything it will probably be a slower powder, not faster. I see no reason to reduce the starting load by more than 10%.

 

[kingmt]

I guess I see no point in taking a chance in blowing up a gun. Had a 380 cartridge pop out about quarter of a inch at the ramp with fresh BE at 1.8gn well below max maybe below most peoples start. It was a known powder but a unknown chamber. If you see many of my post I'm not the one that is afraid of everything. I don't yell danger danger all the time. I like to believe that I have good reasoning skills. I like to know the variables. I also have powder that makes Bullseye seem slow. I've never dealt with bad powder but doesn't it get faster if the solvents evaporate?

Your gun do as you want but I don't mind pulling the slide back a couple times until I know the pockets for the primers are tight & everything is good to go up a little bit.

 

[Slamfire]

Looks to me like an 80's or 90's can.

Shoot it up.

 

[moxie]

Ditto on the 80s or 90s. In fact I just finished (last year) a can of Bullseye with the same labeling, but it was a one pounder.

Salmoneye's Red Dot is indeed ancient.

 

[Gabes220]

I appreciate all of the input. I will try my usual load of 4.3gr under a 230gr LRN and see if i get the usual 720fps out of my sig sauer p220. Thats my IDPA competition load and thats what i'll most likely be doing with this powder (just breaks the PF for CDP).

Thanks again guys.

 

[dickttx]

I have a 4# canister of Unique I opened and used a little out of about 1971. It is in the same type and size container as yours. It has been stored in numerous places and conditions since then.
A couple of years ago I decided to try some of it and compare to a relatively new pound can. I loaded about a dozen rounds of 41 Mag with it. I single loaded a round at a time in my Ruger Redhawk. All fired fine and could not feel any difference from the newer.
I posed questions and read threads on several forums before I used it. General concensus was that if there was any change it would lose strength.

 

[JSmith]

---

 

[moxie]

That is true, that smokeless powder will generally "lose power" when it gets really old and degraded. High explosives and rocket/missile propellants on the other hand generally get more punch or thrust as they age. (Many jokes created on this subject!) Many guided missiles are closely tracked as they age to ensure performance stays within parameters.

 

[Shimitup]

I'm with Salmoneye, not that old it's got barcode on it. I've got numerous cans of various powder pre barcode, still good.

 

[Meta]

Starting at "half the starting load" would be potentially a very bad idea. If the powder smells right and looks right, it's most likely just fine. Starting at half the recommended starting load would likely create a dangerous pressure curve due to the very low volume of air to propellant in the case. Start at the minimum and work up. FYI, I have much older Bullseye powder I'm working with. Shoots fine!

 

[EMC45]

Shoot it! It's not that old. I have some WIN500HS that was dropped off at the local PD in my town. It is from the 50s-60s. Well I tested the burn on it (4th of July, in a coffee can) and it passed the smell test. I found data (close to HS5) online and use a reduced charge for .38 ammo. Shoots just fine. Dirty, but shoots good.

 

[kingmt]

Meta
You won't cause a dangerous curve by dropping the pressure. If it is slower then BE you might stick a bullet at worse. I would rather nock a bullet out then blow up a gun. My concern would be more that it isn't BE since it is a open container. If it is BE it won't have any problem getting the bullet out of the barrel. It won't function the slide. I have used 2.7gn BE in a 38 spl & they have much more air space then most cartridges.

 

[jcwit]

Can't be to old if it has a zip code on the address on the label.

Being old is a subjective term.

 

[EMC45]

Salmoneye, I have some Green Dot from a can like that. Shoots just fine.

 

[EBShooting]

If you are nervous about using it, you can send it to me and I will work with it. LOL

Eric

 

[Meta]

Actually, going significantly below the minimum powder charge on any cartridge is generally bad advice. While going somewhat below minimum in this case, with this powder, is only likely to stick a bullet in the barrel, with some loads, in some cases, the results of going well below minimum can be a blown up gun. Drop a load by 50% in a rifle cartridge and I won't be near you when you shoot it.