Rebuilding my Savage 110 30-06 to a 35 Whelen!

[adcoch1]

So, I have always wanted a Whelen since I read about them in the early 90s in a Field & Stream magazine. I finally got around to the project after a couple of decades of playing with guns, since I never seem to land a used one. I have a little Savage 110 30-06 carbine that is a hoot to shoot, but with other carbines to use I decided to make a heavier hitter out of it...

it is a 20" lightweight carbine, with a pretty decent wood stock on it, so I tore it down to barreled action... the new 35 Whelen Savage prefit barrel is an EABCO 24" stainless barrel I picked up used but unfired from a forum member on Cast Boolets ( thanks KMAC), as you can see, it is quite a bit heftier than the 30-06 barrel...

I then pulled the barrel nut loose with my new wheeler barrel nut wrench, lost the pic of it in the vise, but here is the new Whelen barrel about to be threaded in with the old barrel nut spun on it from the 30-06 barrel. note I also left the original recoil lug in place, back to that later...


and threaded in... headspace set with a sized case.



checked with my new 30-06 family No Go Guage



Just about closed, but not quite. perfect...



so there is the barreled action, now on to the stock... Inletting was required since the 30-06 barrel was skinny and the 35 Whelen barrel was a #2, so I broke out the wood chisels, rasps and files, and the dremel for good measure...


So I tore into it for a few hours until the action drops in perfectly.



at this point it is technically a 35 Whelen, but I still need to finish the barrel channel, and get some bedding compound or good epoxy to bed it out with. Also, the recoil lug I mentioned earlier is going to get replaced, since a few barrel threads show at the barrel nut, and the current lug is a bit loose in the stock as it sits. But, I now have a 35 Whelen!

I also resized 60 30-06 brass to 35 Whelen, and found a cartridge OAL that works with my magazine using the 200gr Noslers that Nature Boy hooked me up with (thanks again Nature Boy!)
Load development will come later after I get the bedding finished and throw a scope on this, but I love the balance, and the extra weight should tame the Whelen once I move up to some heavier bullets. more to come when I have some more time and money..... I love tinkering on guns!

 

[LoonWulf]

Nice work, that'll be an awesome medium bore! I really like those older 110s

 

[adcoch1]

It's got a good trigger and the action is smooth, feeds the dummy rounds I made up slick as anything too. I like em as well. Thinking about titanium grey ceracoat for it once I make sure she shoots...

 

[farmerboy78]

I had one that I loaded with 200gr barnes over 4350 and varget... the varget load was stout, but was a hammer on whitetails...dont quote me in it, but I think I used 58gr varget... it has been a while since I had the Whelen. Definitely do a load development

 

[adcoch1]

Going to look into a few different loads, one with the 200 gr bullets I have and a 250 grn load too. Primary hunting job being bears and elk. Maybe deer with the 200 grn... And a lot of range fun blowing stuff up!

 

[SwampWolf]

Thanks for the interesting write-up and pics, adcoch1. Nice job on the rifle. I've always wanted to rechamber/rebarrel a Remington Model 760 rifle I have from 30-06 to a .35 Whelen (for no practical reason; just for the "cool" factor).

 

[adcoch1]

If I wasn't working with a Savage, I would of had JES reboring bore my 30-06 to a 35 Whelen. A great way to redo anything with a shot out barrel. Costs about $250, which is almost exactly what I have into this rebarrel. By the time I'm finished I could of bought a cheap new or used rifle moneywise, but this way I get just what I want. Really need to go get some bedding compound, I want to finish this one up and shoot it!

 

[LoonWulf]

I think titanium cerracoat would be a nice color. Gonna keep the wood stock or switch out for something else.

 

[adcoch1]

I think titanium cerracoat would be a nice color. Gonna keep the wood stock or switch out for something else.

If the stock doesn't dramatically affect accuracy I'm keeping it. My 12 yr old daughter named this rifle "Marilyn", cause its a blond. Would seem wrong to change it. The ceracoat will go on the scope bas and rings too i think if i get there, and maybe a red anodized oversized smooth bolt handle. Still thinking about that part...

 

[Varminterror]

To my own chagrin, I wouldn’t let myself build another 35whelen, in favor of 338-06, but the Whelen was one of my first custom rifles over 20yrs ago, and it remains to be near and dear to my heart. I have a 30-06 I would love to rebarrel to either 6.5-06 or 338-06/35whelen, but unfortunately I already have a Shilen 30 can blank sitting on top of my safe waiting for it. I may give my son the option in a few years to decide which cartridge he would like it to become in a couple years, however.

My 35whelen was a Ruger M77 Mark II; Big, heavy, and a little bulky, but pleasantly so for the heavyweight Whelen cartridge.

It’s popular to say, it seems, the .30-06 handles the heavy bullets well enough to negate the benefits of the larger 33 or 35 cal pills, but in shooting them all firsthand, I can’t say I believe it.

 

[Geno]

Looks fun! Thanks for the post, especially with photos.

Geno

 

[adcoch1]

To my own chagrin, I wouldn’t let myself build another 35whelen, in favor of 338-06, but the Whelen was one of my first custom rifles over 20yrs ago, and it remains to be near and dear to my heart. I have a 30-06 I would love to rebarrel to either 6.5-06 or 338-06/35whelen, but unfortunately I already have a Shilen 30 can blank sitting on top of my safe waiting for it. I may give my son the option in a few years to decide which cartridge he would like it to become in a couple years, however.

My 35whelen was a Ruger M77 Mark II; Big, heavy, and a little bulky, but pleasantly so for the heavyweight Whelen cartridge.

It’s popular to say, it seems, the .30-06 handles the heavy bullets well enough to negate the benefits of the larger 33 or 35 cal pills, but in shooting them all firsthand, I can’t say I believe it.

I went back and forth about what caliber to step up to, even looked at 375-06, but the 35 has been speaking to me for years. And they just seem to kill out of their weight class. I actually wanted a closer range cartridge, and the 338-06 just seems too close to the newer heavy 30 cal stuff. I will be replacing the 30-06 with a tikka or cz when the funds become available, as I just love it for mid range shooting to 600. But the whelen will be my bear and fun gun

 

[ExAgoradzo]

This is Ex-approved!!!

Love the whole project. I went with the boring .338 WM because it was available and I got it for a good price, but this would be way up there in terms of cool factor med bore!

Greg

 

[rbernie]

Sounds like fun.

I had a transitional 110 long short action sitting around, and this winter I made it into a scout carbine chambered in 358 Winchester. Not quite as versatile as the 35 Whelen, but it should make a decent walkabout brush rifle.

 

[adcoch1]

I looked long and hard at the 358 Winchester as well, but it seemed to be a few notches behind the whelen when it came to the heavies, and even though it'll shoot pistol bullets better I had to go Whelen. That said, I didn't want to try the brown whelen, if I was heading there I'd just build a 375 H&H

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My "heavy" rifle is a custom .03 Springfield made by CW Fitch of Phoenix in the late '60s or early '70s in .35 Brown-Whelen (the most radical form of the Whelen.) This rifle drives a 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket to slightly over 2,800 FPS and puts elk down like lightning.

 

[Slamfire]

I think the 35 Whelen is a great cartridge, wanted one for decades, and until last year, did not have one. Now I have more than one.

I recommend you anneal your necked up 30-06 cases. I had many, early, cracked case necks from my first necked up 30-06 cases. To fix that, I tried annealing. I over annealed the first batch of 30-06 cases by heating the case necks till they were cherry red. That resulted in bullets that fell out of loaded rounds. Case necks were so soft I could pull the bullet out of a loaded round with my fingers. Live and learn. I did my annealing in the inky shadows of the garage, at night. I held a case in the right hand, blow torch in the left, and aimed the flame at the neck juncture. The best annealing technique I developed was to twirl the case, in the flame, count to the first sign of orange/red , which was about the count of four. I decided to keep the case necks below the orange/red color appearance. So, count to four, rotating the case, pull out after four. Wait a few seconds to cool, stick the case back in the flame, rotate, and pull out before any color appeared. At some point the case is too hot to hold, so drop it in a pan of water. This has worked well, case necks hold the bullet tight, and yet, no case neck cracking. Since the case body is not heated up beyond my pain level, I am not annealing the case head, which would be positively dangerous. Brass does not heat treat like steel. Steel is quenched to fix the cell structure and retain hardness. Quenching brass does nothing for hardness. I am dropping cases in a pan of water because the necks will burn, and the case body is hot. I do recommend knocking the primers out, if you leave the primer in, some cases will form an air pocket and not cool consistently.

I have been greasing the heck out of my cases, for their first fireforming.:





This keeps the case neck from sticking to the chamber walls during combustion, which leads to case sidewall stretch. What happens with a greased case is, the case slides to the bolt face, as pressures rise, the shoulder folds out, and you get a stress free, perfectly fireformed case. If I had not lubricated the case, the case neck/shoulders will stick to the front of the chamber, then, as pressures rise, the case sidewalls have to stretch, to fill the gap between the casehead and bolt face. This is tough on cases and will result in a short case life.

You can see, in Varmit's Al finite element analysis, http://www.varmintal.com/a243z.htm, that the greater the amount of friction there is between a case and chamber, the more the case is stressed and stretched. And with dry case in a dry chamber, the case is stretched right through the case head, which is the absolute worst place to stretch a case. If the case head cracks or ruptures, all hell will break loose once that gas comes out into the action.





I have been testing various powders, IMR 3031, N135, N140, and IMR 4064. In my opinion, just go straight to IMR 4064 and do not waste any time with any other powders. IMR 4064 has given the most consistent accuracy and speed, out to 300 yards with my 200 and 225 grain bullets.

M700 Remington 24" 1-16 twist

200 Federal Fusion SPFB 56.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) mixed military cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" greased bullets & cases

23 Feb 2018 T = 81 °F

Ave Vel = 2437
Std Dev = 31
ES = 79
High = 2473
Low = 2394
N = 10

200 Federal Fusion SPFB 58.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) LC62 annealed cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

7 Mar 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2596
Std Dev = 30
ES = 100
High = 2639
Low = 2539
N = 15





Dumoulin Mauser 24" 1:14" twist ER Shaw barrel, light varmit contour


200 Federal Fusion SPFB 56.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) Mixed Military cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

23 Feb 2018 T = 75 °F


Ave Vel = 2411
Std Dev = 31
ES = 119
High = 2457
Low = 2338
N = 11



200 Federal Fusion SPFB 58.0 grs IMR 4064 wtd lot E89AU22 (1989) LC62 annealed cases, Fed 210S OAL 3.050" to cannulure greased bullets & cases

7 Mar 2018 T = 45 °F

Ave Vel = 2576
Std Dev = 36
ES = 129
High = 2641
Low = 2512
N = 10






I am having troubles shooting my 35 Whelen’s accurately. I have been seating my 200 grain bullets out as far as they will go, and I have not found the throat on either rifle. And, the things kick. I am getting better groups out of the Dumoulin Mauser as the barrel is heavier. There are times when the round does not feed into the chamber, but I can’t see that, and I pull the trigger thinking I have a live round, and what happens are positive indications of a massive flinch. The cross hairs jump all over the target. While the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak! I have no doubt the rifles are capable of better accuracy than I am capable of holding.

I replaced the big scope pictured on the Remington M700 with a shorter 4 X 12, because I got tired of the longer, big scope hitting my shooting glasses on recoil! That sure did not help the flinch!

 

[adcoch1]

Wow, thanks for all the info. The annealing is about exactly how I do it. Your rifles are beautiful, and thanks for the load data and fireforming info. I am working with 4350 and 4064 as my startup powders.

Edit to add... Are you annealing before necking up or after? I am doing it after, but uniform trimming the case mouth first. Less tears or splits that way...

 

[Slamfire]

Are you annealing before necking up or after?

After. I debated the before, but it seems to me that annealing before would not relieve the stresses caused by necking up after. Necked sized up 30-06 cases are so short, I don't have to trim for length, just bevel the mouth so the flat base bullets will enter.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A good way to anneal is to use tempilstik (http://www.tempil.com/tempilstik/). This is a chalk-like compound that you mark on the neck, and it melts or changes color at the exact temperature. You can anneal cases with a candle -- mark the neck, rotate it in the flame, put it down when the tempilstik indicates.

 

[someguy2800]

Nice choice. I want to build a 35 whelen or a 9.3x62 on a mauser action.

 

[adcoch1]

Nice choice. I want to build a 35 whelen or a 9.3x62 on a mauser action.

Crf would be nice, I may build another whelen on a 1917 action someday...

 

[Archie]

Nice choice. I want to build a 35 whelen or a 9.3x62 on a mauser action.

Someguy2800: Whatever for? I suppose ammo is somewhat questionable, but Privi Partisan Uzice makes loaded ammunition, cases and there are several U. S. companies make bullets. Cases can be made from .30-06 cases. (Primers are LR and powder is well within the burning ranges offered.) You would be changing from a .366x62 to a .358x63.

Adcoch1: .35 Whelen is a great heavy cartridge, hampered only by the LACK of proper heavy bullets above the 250 grain level. (.338 caliber 300 grain bullets are made.) I have one built up on a 1917 Eddystone action and it does very well in accuracy. The 1917 was previously sporterized and has an earlier Fajen or Boyt stock in walnut. The stock is suitable as a heavy caliber rifle stock or small war hammer. I prefer shooting it to carrying it, but it can be carried. Good round for game above the deer sized critters. Will do for deer and smaller, but I consider it a bit excessive. Proper loading (lighter bullets) will do wonders, but does anyone really need an excuse for another good rifle in the 6.5mm to .30 caliber category?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Adcoch1: .35 Whelen is a great heavy cartridge, hampered only by the LACK of proper heavy bullets above the 250 grain level. (.338 caliber 300 grain bullets are made.)

One of the original advantages of the .35 Whelen was the ability to shoot cast bullets for designed for the .38 Special. So the original Whelens had a fairly slow twist. They do best with lighter bullets -- my favorite is the 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket.

 

[someguy2800]

Someguy2800: Whatever for? I suppose ammo is somewhat questionable, but Privi Partisan Uzice makes loaded ammunition, cases and there are several U. S. companies make bullets. Cases can be made from .30-06 cases. (Primers are LR and powder is well within the burning ranges offered.) You would be changing from a .366x62 to a .358x63.

Because I want it. I don't buy ammo. Bullets and brass are not a problem for either.