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Recall campaign in Colorado

Discussion in 'Activism' started by JRH6856, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I have heard Bernie Herpin's name mentioned
     
  2. cologuy

    cologuy Member

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    I've been out of town for a couple of weeks, but there's also not much going on with the recall that's new. As you know, the recall election is set for Sept 10th, and if the recalls work, there are contenders for both seats. I know nothing about the challenger in Colorado Springs, but the guy here in Pueblo is named Rivera and seems to have his head on straight - he's an ex-police chief, and at least makes the proper pro-2A noises, although I don't have info on his past record. The only thing that worries me is the incredible amount of propganda being put out by the Morse and Giron teams. Radio ads running daily, even on our local "conservative" station, tons of mailers, and more door-to-door soliciting and phone calls than we had during the last State elections. I've personally been called to the door twice to hear their spiel since getting back, despite the "Beware of Dog" and NRA stickers on the door. Next time, "Fluffy" is going to "accidentally" slip out the door past me, so I'll get to see how athletic their solicitors really are. As usual, if anything new comes up, I'll post it here.
     
  3. Arbo

    Arbo Member

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    Just signing in to keep up with the thread.
     
  4. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    Libertarians have won a legal challenge that now requires the ballots to be reprinted to include Libertarian candidates. Seems they couldn't get candidates filed in the 10 days they had to do it in under Colorado law so the judge opened it up - just to be fair.

    Libertarian candidates serve only to get Democrats elected...so...Thanks Libertarians, we sure do appreciate all the new laws and directives handed down to us by our Democrat Lawgivers :rolleyes:
     
  5. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    While I do agree with what you are saying (actually it happened here: a liberal anti-gun state senator from my district was elected ONLY because the other side's vote was split between a Republican and a Libertarian who were both viable candidates), I also hope that the Republicans will maybe get the clue that it's time to take a more Libertarian-like approach to politics. The Republicans have angered too many moderate conservatives for too long with some policies, and these issues could largely be addressed with more of a "live and let live" stance, similar to that taken by most Libertarians.
     
  6. goon

    goon Member

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    As far as CO goes, other than wishing you all the best, I don't really have a dog in this fight.
    Having said that, to Libertarians, it's the Republicans and the Democrats who continue to give us more and more of the same BS, regardless of which party is in power. I could get on board with a decent Republican candidate but they all seem to be too busy driving their party directly off the nearest cliff to put a decent candidate in front of me.
    I could also support a moderate liberal (socially, this is kind of where my views are) but you always have to worry about them going too far with the party line and voting to eliminate your firearms.

    Anyhow, the wild-eyed faction of the Republican party doesn't represent me or a whole lot of people who think like me. Expecting me to vote for them is as ludicrous as the anti-gun, pro-government-intrusion far-left expecting me to support their candidate.

    The whole thing is an impossible situation for a guy who doesn't care if gay people are gay and happy together, doesn't care if you responsibly use pot in your basement, doesn't want the government spying on citizens, and doesn't want to be persecuted for his passionate support of the Bill of Rights.


    Glad for the update on the CO recall effort though. I sincerely do wish you guys the best and hope you make the guilty parties pay. I'm rooting for an eventual repeal of that law.
    It's a shame that such an awesome western state got taken over by a bunch of wailing bed-wetters.
     
  7. Larry Ashcraft

    Larry Ashcraft Moderator Staff Member

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    He was never police chief, just a retired officer.

    George Rivera is well-known and well-liked in the community, and definitely on our side. He may be the one who sways the election our way.

    Yesterday I saw a new group picketing at a major intersection "Democrats for Rivera".
     
  8. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    I agree that too many Republicans are merely "Democrat Light". But I believe the solution to run in the Republican primaries - not run third party and split the vote thereby insuring the victory of the Democrat.

    Here's a good overview which points out that the Libertarian Vote can just as easily go to Democrats.
     
  9. goon

    goon Member

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    Lew Schiller - Yep, a Libertarian could just as easily vote for a Democrat candidate. Personally, I have some socially liberal leanings (that democrats often support) but also highly value personal responsibility, no more spending and government than necessary, and full support for the Bill of Rights (and all rights not so enumerated). I get along with conservatives on most issues but I have also been labeled "liberal" by some complete howling liberals. I don't really care - a lot of liberals are good people who have their heads on straight about a lot of stuff, including guns. In the right situation, either party may represent my views but generally, both are also fundamentally opposed to some things that I think positively should be so.

    So it's not like we're voting "against" Republicans just to stick it to them. If they want to pull people like me out of the third party and under their tent, they're going to have to earn it. Simply saying "maybe I suck, but sure ain't that other guy!" isn't enough. And no offense to the many Republicans on this board, but it's my vote. It's always been my vote. If I feel Mickey Mouse is a better candidate than anyone else on the ballot, it's my right to pencil him in and hope for the best. My vote is part of my voice in my government and it belongs to me exclusively. No one has the right to blame me for not voting for their guy. Blaming Libertarians or any other third party (or the segment of the population that doesn't vote) for the losses of the Republican party isn't fair. We all have the responsibility to vote as our consciences dictate. If your guy ain't it, then that's just how it is. Choose a better guy next time and maybe you can sway enough people to get him elected.

    Sorry for the political deviation. It's probably in violation of the rules, so I'll try and refrain from any more of it... I don't want to derail this thread. Anyone who wishes to discuss it further, please feel free to PM me.
     
  10. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    I understand and agree with most - and agree that we should leave it at that.

    My only reason for bringing it up is that in 2010, these were the election results that kept him in office.

    Candidates Votes
    John Morse (D) 13,866
    Owen Hill (R) 13,526
    Douglas W. Randall (L) 1,320


    340 votes separated Morse from his Republican challenger. 1,320 Libertarians made their statement by voting for Randall - handing the win to Morse.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Also remember that at both state and federal levels, which ever party has the majority in both the Senate or House of Representatives - by whatever name - (regardless of how much that majority comes out to in numbers) controls the committees and appoints the committe chairperson. Therefore they also control what legislation gets or doesn't get passed.

    For this reason a numerical majority is critical.
     
  12. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    Absolutely - Party trumps person
     
  13. Arbo

    Arbo Member

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    Perhaps if the 'right' wasn't so anti-personal liberties, this would never happen. ;)
     
  14. goon

    goon Member

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    In the case with Hill and Morse in 2010, why do you count only the Libertarians as lost votes? Isn't every vote that went to Morse a lost vote? There are undoubtedly people who voted for Morse who almost voted for Hill. The Republicans failed to secure their votes as well. The 341 votes they'd have needed to win was a rather small number. A little more work and they could have pulled that many from people who didn't go to the polls, a few libertarians, and even from Morse's own reluctant supporters.
    Instead of being angry and blaming, they should look at what they did wrong and fix it.

    Simply not being democrats isn't going to win us over.
    In other words, Republicans are not entitled to the votes of anyone who doesn't want to vote for a Democratic candidate. There is no entitlement. There are only free people, each of whom has the right to cast his or her vote as he or she sees fit. And you have to earn their support by striving to provide the type of government they want.

    This guy says it well:

    “What many Republicans don’t understand is votes are earned. They don’t belong to Republican candidates,” he said. “If Republicans put up better or more liberatrian-minded candidates they wouldn’t have to worry about the Libertarian in the race.” ~ Travis Nicks.

    I will say in looking at the situation with the recall election, if I lived in CO and had a chance to vote, I'd swing Republican this time and try to make the people who sided with Bloomberg's money over the Constitution have to look for new jobs. It's in the entire state's best interests to sting those people and make it known that there is a price to pay for attacking the Bill of Rights.

    But if the Libertarians have a right to be on the ballot, they should be on it.
    You either trust the People or you don't. If the Republicans want Libertarian votes, they need to be more inclusive, shift some of the more objectionable planks in their platform, and bring those people in.

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot...-on-john-morses-recall-please-butt-out/97519/

    My apologies to Larry Ashcraft and any other mods who happen by. I know I'm pretty close to straying over the line and too far into political discussion. Truth is I probably already have. My only excuse (albeit a poor one) is that the RKBA is an inherently politically charged issue in this country. It shouldn't be - it belongs to everyone regardless of political party - but right now it is.

    Still, I swear I'll shut up about politics now.

    Perhaps a better way to go with this whole thing is for those in CO to form a pro-RKBA coalition.
    Be open to anyone of any party. Don't even ask about party affiliation... it doesn't matter.
    Instead, focus on the issue, gain support from anyone who agrees with you, and get these people out of office.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  15. Arbo

    Arbo Member

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    Good post goon, right on the money.
     
  16. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    Well said Goon. I don't disagree with anything you said. I just see the results of elections.
    All that's left now is the voting - what will be will be.
    Well - that and the Democrats suing because the new election rules put in place by the judge that heard the Libertarians case means that the election can't be held using mail in ballots. Candidates can be put on the ballot up to 15 days before the election. No time for mail.

    http://kdvr.com/2013/08/13/democrats-will-appeal-judges-ruling-on-mail-ballots-in-recall/

    That could be a good thing for the recall effort.
     
  17. goon

    goon Member

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    Like I said Lew, I sincerely do wish you all a positive outcome on this. We realize that your efforts could benefit us all. The situation in your state has not gone unnoticed.

    I've used it to slap down a couple of the howling liberals I know when they start on the whole "special interest groups" thing by reminding them that Bloomberg's money essentially pushed this whole thing through in Colorado. If a ******r from NYC funding anti-gun legislation and pressuring lawmakers in another state isn't some kind of screwy special interest, I don't know what is!
    Like I said before, I have some pretty liberal friends that I can relate to and who are great people, but I can't stand how some people on both sides drink the kool-aid and try to turn a blind eye.

    Anyhow, please do keep us informed.
     
  18. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    At the risk of being modded out -
    Further to the discussion above regarding Libertarians splitting off votes, and to those who say Texas will never go Blue, here's an article about Wendy Davis' future aspirations:

    The pull quote from Gail Schwartz, a Gun Control Colorado Democrat, -

    “We are fortunate to have a majority (of Democrats in state offices) and we know, that majorities matter ,” Schwartz said. “We want to have a state that we can leave for our children that represents the values so many of us have today.”

    You'll find Gail's gun control voting record here as well as her overall record...which I'll bet parallels Wendy's.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  19. Arbo

    Arbo Member

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    Colorado fell, Texas will as well, eventually. ;)
     
  20. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    The only way to fight it is to refute The Blueprint step by step

    Note that in the cited article Wendy is speaking at a "fundraiser in Aspen".
    So...you have Texas Democrats going to Aspen to raise money from wealthy Democrats to flip Texas to Democrat control. Can you hear me now?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  21. goon

    goon Member

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    If one party appeals to more people than the other, people will vote for that party.
    Instead of being stuck on which party is in power, we should focus on making protecting the Bill of Rights and the RKBA a non-partisan issue.

    Our activism efforts should not be blind loyalty to any party. Instead, our efforts should draw in people of all parties.
    It's a better strategy to make the RKBA an issue that no candidate can touch in any party than it is to try to keep your boys in power all the time. Because eventually, your boys are going to lose an election.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  22. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    I've often wondered if voting tactics took a radical change, say where we simply have a decade or two of simply voting every single incumbent out of office with each election cycle, the voters would be sending a message to the politicians to quit porking the dog and get to the business of actually running the government.

    You know...like getting a darned budget passed ON TIME, EVERY TIME and living within our means as a nation.

    Seems to me if we focused their attention on their primary responsibilities, they'd have less time on their hands to devote to people who don't understand what "rights" are and how to get them removed or restricted.

    I know...just a pipe dream. But what a dream, huh?

    :)
     
  23. LewSchiller

    LewSchiller Member

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    As was said - majorities matter. If your desired representative is part of the majority running your State Legislature you'll be happy. If they're not they may still be your guy - or gal - but they won't be able to accomplish a thing.

    That's what happened here. Democrats have the majority and the Governors seat. Whatever they want to do is what will be done. Only truly unworkable measures get put down. Morse sponsored a bill that would have held firearm manufacturers liable for death or injury resulting from the use of their products. That was rejected - but really just because it's been refuted on a federal level. Had that not been the case I'd be surprised if they didn't put that through as well.

    The recall is an attempt to stem the tide and "send a message". God Speed the Recall. However, absent a majority, in the words of the former Secretary of State...what difference at this point does it make?
    As it stands now Democrats have a 3 seat majority in the Senate and a 9 seat majority in the House. If the recalls prevail Democrats still have the majorities. If the Recalls fail they'll have the majorities and an even more inflated sense of entitlement to enact "Common Sense Solutions" for any and all of what they perceive to be the ills of society.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  24. goon

    goon Member

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    But... how are you going to change a majority?
    If a majority of people in a state vote for one party, that party is in power. It's not possible to track down everyone who'd vote for that party and twist their arm and make them vote for the other guy. And it's not American.

    And... the actions of Republicans in NY on gun laws still make Colorado's democrats look like a bunch of choir boys in comparison. Wasn't it Republicans and a Republican governor who saddled the citizens of that state with the 7 round magazine capacity limit?

    Admittedly, the left does push more gun control. But Republicans are not even close to innocent.

    The RKBA shouldn't be a partisan issue. By pretending it is, the shooting community alienates people on the left who support the Second Amendment. Even the NRA is seen by many on the left as a mouthpiece of the republican party rather than as a true RKBA organization.
    We've got to do something about that. We have to get those people in our ranks.
     
  25. Twmaster

    Twmaster Member

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    Cuomo Republican? Hardly.
     
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