Jenrick
Member
I'd start digging through the surplus racks at your local gun stores. A sporterized 1903, K98, etc ticks pretty much all of your original list except the detachable magazine. A SMLE is what immediately came to mind reading your list.
Recommended Bolt Action Rifle and Caliber
- Thread starter DMW1116
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I want to say that you can shoot outstanding groups at distance with irons. But it takes practice. And it takes a large aiming point.
This is one version of the 5V, to be used at 500 yards. If you have ever seen a M1903 front sight, this target was made so you could place the M1903 front sight at 6 OC on the thing. With young eyes, it looks like a round pin head at distance. Incidentally, this is the basis for those "NM" M14 and Garand sights. I tried a wide combat Garand and M14 front on this target, at 500 yards, and found it extremely difficult to place the pin head in the middle of the front sight. The appearance was closer to a speck of dust that disappeared as the wide blade approached it.
The top target was the old 500 yard NRA target, and even though it is wider, I hated it. Too small. The 600 yard target had the same ring size, but the seven ring was black, and that made it much easier to see.
I regularly pulled targets with shooters who shot 198's, 199's on the NRA target, and I cleaned it once with a M1a at 500 yards. The ten ring is twelve inches at that distance.
I am sad that the discipline of iron sights is going away. All the good scope shooters I know were good iron sight shooters. Irons require that you take the exact same stock weld each time, center the post exactly, and that forces a shooter to have a consistent aim point. You also see how the group moved up and down, based where your face is on the stock, and left and right, as the stock moves in the shoulder.
One of the things about scopes, that I do think is bad, is that it encourages shots at distances were the shooter has no reasonable chance of hitting a pie panned sized lethal zone. I see at the range rifles with huge scopes, on clear days you can see the moon! But shoot at the moon, you are not going to hit anything. At least with irons, the engagement distance is limited by target size. If what you are aiming at is too small to provide an aiming point, that is a clue that maybe you should not be taking that shot.
This is one version of the 5V, to be used at 500 yards. If you have ever seen a M1903 front sight, this target was made so you could place the M1903 front sight at 6 OC on the thing. With young eyes, it looks like a round pin head at distance. Incidentally, this is the basis for those "NM" M14 and Garand sights. I tried a wide combat Garand and M14 front on this target, at 500 yards, and found it extremely difficult to place the pin head in the middle of the front sight. The appearance was closer to a speck of dust that disappeared as the wide blade approached it.
The top target was the old 500 yard NRA target, and even though it is wider, I hated it. Too small. The 600 yard target had the same ring size, but the seven ring was black, and that made it much easier to see.
I regularly pulled targets with shooters who shot 198's, 199's on the NRA target, and I cleaned it once with a M1a at 500 yards. The ten ring is twelve inches at that distance.
I am sad that the discipline of iron sights is going away. All the good scope shooters I know were good iron sight shooters. Irons require that you take the exact same stock weld each time, center the post exactly, and that forces a shooter to have a consistent aim point. You also see how the group moved up and down, based where your face is on the stock, and left and right, as the stock moves in the shoulder.
One of the things about scopes, that I do think is bad, is that it encourages shots at distances were the shooter has no reasonable chance of hitting a pie panned sized lethal zone. I see at the range rifles with huge scopes, on clear days you can see the moon! But shoot at the moon, you are not going to hit anything. At least with irons, the engagement distance is limited by target size. If what you are aiming at is too small to provide an aiming point, that is a clue that maybe you should not be taking that shot.
Almost forgot... 300 yards is easy for the CZ 527 in 7.62x39. 200 yards is almost too easy.
The CZ is the first rifle I've owned that I've managed a sub MOA 5-shot group @ 100 yards. I can't do that all the time, but I'm sure that's my fault, not the rifle. Groups are generally in the 1.5 to 1.75" range. Never as much as 2" at this writing. And that's with inexpensive Vympel Golden Tiger and Barnaul Silver Bear.
In comparison my Ruger Mini-30 shoots consistent 2" groups and a little better with a Burris 2.75x scout scope, but never sub MOA. I haven't managed as tight as 1.5" On rare occasion there will be a flyer far enough away from the main group to make it a 3" group. Hate when that happens.
My Mini-30 has been modded and tweaked, including a trigger job, lots of research, experimentation, and many years of experience with it since I bought it new in 1989.
The CZ 527 shot as well as it does brand new right out of the box. I've had it less than a year. No mods, no tweaks except the aftermarket bolt handle.
I'm also a lifelong fan of .308/7.62 NATO chambered bolt guns. A Remington 700 in .308 is the Bee's Knees, but the CZ and 7.62x39 is great for what it's intended for.
Space Ghost
Member
If iron sights are more important, I'd suggest maybe an old military surplus rifle like a Mauser, or a Mosin.
If you really must have a detachable magazine... perhaps the Lee Enfield. They aren't really designed to be used as a quick reload mag, but they do come out, and if you get an extra, you can use them that way. I customized my Lee Enfield by having my gunsmith make a mount for a red dot, and I had it shortened, but it still has the irons, and I do have an extra magazine for it. It's a finely balanced weapon, and I love shooting it. The .303 British round is fully capable of taking anything I'm likely to point it at.
If you really must have a detachable magazine... perhaps the Lee Enfield. They aren't really designed to be used as a quick reload mag, but they do come out, and if you get an extra, you can use them that way. I customized my Lee Enfield by having my gunsmith make a mount for a red dot, and I had it shortened, but it still has the irons, and I do have an extra magazine for it. It's a finely balanced weapon, and I love shooting it. The .303 British round is fully capable of taking anything I'm likely to point it at.
Something that meets most of your criteria is the Savage Scout. It comes with iron sights. I have one in 308 with a Burris Scope. It shoots + or minus a bit an inch at 100 yds using the scope using just about any NATO ball. Maybe twice as big as that with the irons. That's usual for me on a gun with irons and a scope.
The best group I've ever fired was 6/10ths of an inch with Federal 149 gr fmj. That's measured edge to edge and I did it 3 out of 4 times in a row. Center to center that works out to a 3/10th of an inch group. I've never worked up load for it as that's plenty of accuracy for me.
Picking a caliber the 6.5 Creedmore is hot now. I'd probably stick with the 308 as there is (usually) so much NATO ammo out there its so much cheaper to shoot.
Price, after a quick Google, shows you may have to go $100-200 more than your budget.
The best group I've ever fired was 6/10ths of an inch with Federal 149 gr fmj. That's measured edge to edge and I did it 3 out of 4 times in a row. Center to center that works out to a 3/10th of an inch group. I've never worked up load for it as that's plenty of accuracy for me.
Picking a caliber the 6.5 Creedmore is hot now. I'd probably stick with the 308 as there is (usually) so much NATO ammo out there its so much cheaper to shoot.
Price, after a quick Google, shows you may have to go $100-200 more than your budget.
FL-NC
Member
Forget the iron sights and go with a Ruger American in 6.5 CM.
Choctaw
Member
Just keep an eye on it. The Team Bud's thing, though very annoying, tends to come and go.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
For deer sized game out to 300, I'd opt for a 6mm; they'll do the job with less recoil. And they are outstanding on targets. 6mm Creedmoor, Grendel (ARC), or GT ... or a .243 Win if you want to be more traditional. Then pick your launcher.
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I have a fascination with 6.5 Grendel. A bolt gun might be the thing to get me into it. A 243 Winchester is appealing as well. Nothing his set in stone. I’ll keep looking and saving. If I add a bit more budget, will my options open up a lot?
high country
Member
I am right there with you on 6.5 Grendel. It is just a matter of time before I get around to adding one to my collection of bolt rifles in intermediate cartridges (to go with my .223 CZ American and 7.62x39 Howa Mini Action). If you already have .308 covered, one of those three cartridges would be a great add. To varying degrees they are all capable of deer hunting to 100 yards, and are capable of 300 yard shots on targets. Plus, they have low recoil and eat less powder so the fun factor is high.
As someone else said, pick a cartridge first then pick your launcher. For those shorter cartridges the CZ and Howa Mini are both excellent.
Good luck, picking a new rifle is good clean fun!
someguy2800
Member
The only 6.5 grendel bolt actions I know of on the market are CZ, Howa, and Ruger. The Howa and CZ are around $500 already and the CZ is a little higher. Personally I would get the ruger and if you have more budget available spend it on the scope.
My 308 is semiauto, shoots about 1MOA with my hand loads, has been 100% reliable since I got it back from a warranty repair, and weighs a metric ton. Something lighter would be nice.
For my purposes the most logical choice seems the Ruger or CZ in 5.56. I’d like the longer barreled Ruger but they are 223 chamber. My other rifles are chambered in 5.56 and I occasionally load up into the 5.56 specs. That’s an accident waiting to happen.
What about some other more distinct cartridges? 6.5 Grendel was mentioned. What about 450 Bushmaster or 350 Legend? Maybe 300 Blackout as I hear it’s easier to reload than 7.62x39, which it better be since it’s hard to find and the Russian ammo is everywhere.
For my purposes the most logical choice seems the Ruger or CZ in 5.56. I’d like the longer barreled Ruger but they are 223 chamber. My other rifles are chambered in 5.56 and I occasionally load up into the 5.56 specs. That’s an accident waiting to happen.
What about some other more distinct cartridges? 6.5 Grendel was mentioned. What about 450 Bushmaster or 350 Legend? Maybe 300 Blackout as I hear it’s easier to reload than 7.62x39, which it better be since it’s hard to find and the Russian ammo is everywhere.
Tikka T3X Artic ideally in .308 Win but currently available in 6.5 Creedmoor. But since your budget is $500 or less ... there are plenty of good suggestions here.
Tikka T3x Arctic Rifles for sale! - EuroOptic.com
Tikka T3x Arctic Rifles for sale! - EuroOptic.com
d2wing
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Last year I bought a Remington 700 in .243 that shoots sub moa with factory ammo for $250. I did have to replace the scope. I haven't seen any with iron sights. Not many rifles come with sights anymore. I would consider a T/C rifle or a couple others as well.
You brought up 300 yds, that's why neither the .300 bo, .223, or x39 were on my original list, they MAY be capable, but they're far from my first choice for such an endeavor, none pack much steam past 200....... The grendel truly is the answer but the fun is all the other flavors of ice cream, not my favorite but the Valkyrie's parent would also be good fit here(6.8 spc), but idk about a bolt gun option... The bigger trick is budget without going into custom barrels as there are enough fun lil rounds out there that are simply not factory options lol. Basically any short action cartridge that can get a deer class bullet to the finish line at 1800-2200 fps(monos=more speed) will work, the less powder needed to do so, the better! .223 MIGHT be able to do so with the right bullets/twist rate/powders/barrel lengths, just not something I'd attempt when I have a plethora of other options already available. 6mm makes a DANDY of a deer killer and the bullets and twists are becoming appropriate depending on manufacturer and chambering.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Since your budget is about $500 that limits things a little. Personally I would be looking for an older Win 70 or Rem 700 (or similar) bolt gun slightly used and not abused. Maybe a Savage in the lot. I would likely run with a 308 Winchester cartridge simply because easy to load for and find components for. Your biggest deal breaker is your price point. You want to hunt consider a synthetic stock in the mix.
Ron
Ron
courtgreene
Member
While I like the advice of looking into used guns, I would be careful with Remington 700s. Mine has been so problematic that I won’t get rid of it because I would feel guilty of a buyer getting it and then something catastrophic happening. It’s accurate, and that’s great, but it has had tons of functional and potentially deadly malfunctions. In every case, it came flawed from the factory.
I actually didn’t come here to bash Remington, I just wanted to pass along a warning.
My actual advice is to look hard at savage and ruger. Mossberg also makes some models that meet the op’s criteria well, but I have no experience with them. If I were shopping I’d go savage, but I’m not, so that brings us to cartridges. Since the primary function is targets and hunting is a possibility but may not happen you want something that is relatively panic resistant (because it’s hard to shoot many targets without ammunition). In my area that was a 270 (believe it or not). Until deer season it was available, and then deer season wiped it out for a good while. (Unfortunately, I don’t shoot or own one so that didn’t help me) Just something to consider.
I actually didn’t come here to bash Remington, I just wanted to pass along a warning.
My actual advice is to look hard at savage and ruger. Mossberg also makes some models that meet the op’s criteria well, but I have no experience with them. If I were shopping I’d go savage, but I’m not, so that brings us to cartridges. Since the primary function is targets and hunting is a possibility but may not happen you want something that is relatively panic resistant (because it’s hard to shoot many targets without ammunition). In my area that was a 270 (believe it or not). Until deer season it was available, and then deer season wiped it out for a good while. (Unfortunately, I don’t shoot or own one so that didn’t help me) Just something to consider.
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I have been leaning toward a Savage in 308 really hard, but it has proven elusive and out of my budget, though it ticks all the boxes except weight.
I considered a Tika in 270 for a while. There was one on the shelf in the LGS and I almost bought it. The wide utility of the 308 makes it a top contender in my mind.
I considered a Tika in 270 for a while. There was one on the shelf in the LGS and I almost bought it. The wide utility of the 308 makes it a top contender in my mind.
courtgreene
Member
great suggestion, that’s why I made one my last rifle purchase. Way out of his price range though.
Varminterror
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Anyone owning a Remington 700 which doesn’t function safely really doesn’t have any excuses. It’s the most well and widely known rifle action on the market with the most aftermarket and industry service support, and some of the heaviest factory safety recall scrutiny of any model on the market. Despite varying QA/QC issues in multiple eras of their history, AND of course, acknowledging any company will produce lemons, especially those which produce a significant proportion of the market volume, Remington has typically done a very good job at customer service and support, AND they’ve been backed into corners any time they have a design safety issue. Low confidence in a trigger? Let Remington replace it for free - OR buy any of a hundred aftermarket options.
I certainly wouldn’t buy a new one today and don’t plan to in the future with their current ownership, but there’s really no excuse to leave a Remington without proper function.
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upptick
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Between the class action products liability lawsuits regarding the old Remington 700 design, the plethora of anecdotal reports of problems with the new design, and now the multiple bankruptcies not to mention the changes of ownership of the company itself, it's a hard case to make, recommending Remington for anything. In other words, I don't think you were "bashing."
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