I recently added a red dot to my Sig P320 and my shooting improved significantly as I expected. But I was surprised to find that my shooting with the regular sights also improved significantly. I think using the red dot helped me smooth out my trigger pull and not flinch, and that carried over to regular sights. Curious whether anyone else has noticed a similar affect after training with a red dot and then going back to regular sights.
red dot improved my accuracy when shooting w/o red dot
- Thread starter MrBitey
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CapnMac
Member
The tube does give a "ghost ring" effect of helping "concentrate" focus along the correct axis.
We humans don't notice it much, but the vision centers in our brains are "seeing" though both eyes, individually. Now, our perceptual analysis portion of the brain is what unites the information and guides us on just "what" to concentrate upon. (There's still ton of research on just how we actually focus on things visually, whether that's from existing cues already in the vision, or if the 'concept' of what to focus on occurs and the visual field searched until that concept is found--until the eggheads get that printed we work with what we have.)
The tricky part about turned-off RDS is when you get comfortable with both eyes open shooting (which you ought to be doing with the dot on, come to cases) and the ghost ring just falls upon where it is needed without conscious volition, same as the red dot is meant to. That's complicated and takes practice, obviously.
I find I have to take just a squidgen more time to ensure the circle is centered on the intended target than the dot. But, that's mostly because I expect the dot to be what I want on target.
.YMMV
We humans don't notice it much, but the vision centers in our brains are "seeing" though both eyes, individually. Now, our perceptual analysis portion of the brain is what unites the information and guides us on just "what" to concentrate upon. (There's still ton of research on just how we actually focus on things visually, whether that's from existing cues already in the vision, or if the 'concept' of what to focus on occurs and the visual field searched until that concept is found--until the eggheads get that printed we work with what we have.)
The tricky part about turned-off RDS is when you get comfortable with both eyes open shooting (which you ought to be doing with the dot on, come to cases) and the ghost ring just falls upon where it is needed without conscious volition, same as the red dot is meant to. That's complicated and takes practice, obviously.
I find I have to take just a squidgen more time to ensure the circle is centered on the intended target than the dot. But, that's mostly because I expect the dot to be what I want on target.
.YMMV
Thanks for the reply CapnMac. Just to clarify, I'm not comparing accuracy of red dot on vs turned off, but seeing improvements in accuracy when going back to the my old slide with regular sights (no red dot). I only got into shooting about a year ago, took classes and improved pretty quickly, then plateaued. My accuracy was good enough, but not what I had expected. Since getting a red dot a few months ago I've seen my accuracy improve quite a bit, and I was surprised that this improvement carried over to handguns w/o a red dot.
JR24
Member
I'm sure it's your trigger pull, as you say.
I had something similar happen, but it was mostly because I had to dry fire a TON to get used to the dot and in the process really learned where I was needing work on my trigger pull and fixed a lot of it. Ultimately I took the dot off.
Same went for finally learning the DA on a few DA/SA guns I have, made my shooting with Glocks and SAO better as well.
I had something similar happen, but it was mostly because I had to dry fire a TON to get used to the dot and in the process really learned where I was needing work on my trigger pull and fixed a lot of it. Ultimately I took the dot off.
Same went for finally learning the DA on a few DA/SA guns I have, made my shooting with Glocks and SAO better as well.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
My use of a red dot over the last decade, whether handgun or rifle, has led me to focus more on the target when firing the shot.
Part of that is my middle aged eyes required the change in how I use sights. But the other is, when I'm zoned into the target and my handgun hold and trigger press are practiced and consistent, I can almost see where the hole in the target is about to be made.
Granted, I'm not zoned in on a target like that very often, but when I do it sure seems like shooting with a red dot helped get me there.
Part of that is my middle aged eyes required the change in how I use sights. But the other is, when I'm zoned into the target and my handgun hold and trigger press are practiced and consistent, I can almost see where the hole in the target is about to be made.
Granted, I'm not zoned in on a target like that very often, but when I do it sure seems like shooting with a red dot helped get me there.
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Hangingrock
Member
My potential of acquiring a handgun set up for mounting a Red-Dot is most likely not going to happen. But with that said the Leupold Deltapoint Micro sight may have potential to mounted on my example of the S&W 9mm Shield. The mounting requires the removal of the rear sight to be replaced with and adapter plate. The geometry and size of the sight is such that it is uniquely different. The suggested OEM pricing and actual street price difference will be a deciding factor.
kalielkslayer
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I haven’t experienced what you’re describing since I’ve never shot a RDS on a handgun.
But with either a scope or a red dot on a rifle, I know when the crosshairs/dot moved before the bullet was gone. Basically when it was me and not the gun.
Sounds similar to me.
But with either a scope or a red dot on a rifle, I know when the crosshairs/dot moved before the bullet was gone. Basically when it was me and not the gun.
Sounds similar to me.
I haven't done what you are doing, but I have a friend who just got one of those laster light training things for dry fire practice. He says it works, I'm sure for similar reasons, but not really sure how or why. I have use a red dot on a rifle, just a few times, and I'd agree it makes me more aware of how stable I am overall - and think it kind of imrpoves your feel to the target.
JR24
Member
Pretty much, the dot really lets you know if you're moving the gun with your trigger pull, much more obvious than iron sights imo.
They certainly take some of the drudgery out of dry fire and make it more fun. Certainly has improved my shooting mostly because it got me to dry fire a lot more.
wiscoaster
Member
I think the OP's premise is right spot on the money.
When I added a Bushnell RXS-250 RDS to my M&P 2.0, I had the slide machined for direct installation instead of using an adapter plate. The machinist proposed adding replacement front and rear tall sights ("suppressor height") so I still have iron I can co-witness with the RDS. The result has worked well, although I admit to primarily practicing with the RDS and not as often with the iron. Depending on the geometry of your Shield slide, I expect you could do the same.
p.s. These mods force need for a new holster, special crafted to accept both the RD and the tall front sight.
Craig
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JR24
Member
roval
Member
similar phenomenon but different scenario. earlier in my shooting, i was poorly shooting my xdm 9 mm. i had bought a metroarms 1911 and during the first range session i shredded the red part of a silhouette target at 10 yrds. when i went back to the xdm for the next range trip, my shooting improved markedly and started to be able to have an idea where the shot will land. the press of the 1911 trigger was carried over to the pivoting xdm trigger.
Riomouse911
Member
Cool observation. I agree with the guys who posted that you can see a dot jump about when you aren’t following the fundamentals much easier than two sights in various stages of focus.
That rationale may be the final bit of justification for me to pop a RDS on my Glock 43x MOS pistol...
Stay safe.
That rationale may be the final bit of justification for me to pop a RDS on my Glock 43x MOS pistol...
Stay safe.
Varminterror
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Three words: feedback, feedback, feedback.
When unnecessary hurdles are removed, we get better feedback which truly reflects our performance, so we learn faster and to a higher efficiency.
This is the same reason it’s foolish to follow the old “boomer rules” like “start a kid on iron sights before a scope so they really learn how to shoot first...” or “learning on a DA trigger (or heavy rifle trigger) will make you a better shot than learning on a light trigger...” or “shoot a 308win instead of a 6.5 creed because it’ll make you better at reading wind....” They’re just. not. true. Start with the easy and you’ll become better prepared to adapt to the hard, faster, than if you start with the hard.
When unnecessary hurdles are removed, we get better feedback which truly reflects our performance, so we learn faster and to a higher efficiency.
This is the same reason it’s foolish to follow the old “boomer rules” like “start a kid on iron sights before a scope so they really learn how to shoot first...” or “learning on a DA trigger (or heavy rifle trigger) will make you a better shot than learning on a light trigger...” or “shoot a 308win instead of a 6.5 creed because it’ll make you better at reading wind....” They’re just. not. true. Start with the easy and you’ll become better prepared to adapt to the hard, faster, than if you start with the hard.
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