Red Dot or Reflex Sight For AK

[Davek1977]

irons, they make 20-30 round mags for a reason

I enjoy a good mag dump as much as the next guy, but are you honestly going with the quantity over quality argument here? That argument can be used for a good many things, but number of shots shouldnt be one of them! I guess I expect to hit something when I pull the trigger, and strive for every shot to hit its mark. i would NEVER advocate the spray and pray method, regardless of magazine capacity. Having additional rounds on hand doesnt mean you shouldnt strive to make every shot count

As far as cheap red dots go, I'll agree with the consensus thus far...Primary Arms. I have one for my AR, and its performed well. It may be getting moved to an AK soon though, as I have already scoped the AR-15, as I used it (successfully) for deer season this year.

 

[-v-]

+1 on the Bushnell TRS-25. At a 4/11 setting, which by brightness is on par with my CompC3's 7/11 setting, battery life is 3,000 hours. So you can turn it on and leave it on for about 4 months strait without worry. Mine's on an Arsenal SGL-21, has stood up very well to use an abuse, and has a few silver gouges in its body from less then gentle handling. For $80, I dont think you can beat it.

 

[briansmithwins]

The problem is that with a $100 budget you can get either a decent mount for the AK or a useable optic.

But not both.

If it were me I'd sell something I'm not using or save up until I had around $200. Much less than that and you're going to be way better off sticking with the irons.

Which actually aren't that bad on a AK.

BSW

 

[henschman]

Yeah you can co-witness with that TWS mount. The pic they have on their website is of a micro co-witnessed on it. The rear peep looks like it is completely non-adjustable, so you could forget about adjusting it for different ranges like you can with your factory rear sight.

 

[mortablunt]

I slightly favor the reflex sight because it doesn't need batteries, but a red dot is more user friendly and easier to use in low light.

 

[A_Matthew]

My $100 budget was for the scope alone. I was already figuring on the mount. And I think I'll be raising that budget anyway...

That's the one thing I don't like about the TWS is that you have to get rid of your irons and make do with the non-adjustable peep sight. Would it be possible to co-witness with the Ultimak and one of the Vortex red dots? I've heard that you can not co-witness with the SPARC and the Ultimak, but I'm not sure about the Strikeforce. I'm looking seriously at the SPARC right now, as it seems to fit my needs. Comes with a 2x magnifier, and 3 different mounts. So I guess it's come down to the either the Ultimak or the TWS for a rail, and one of the Vortex red dots.

 

[230therapy]

Ultimak rail (or RS Regulate side rail) and the Aimpoint are the way to go. You can buy once or you can buy twice.

I have the TWS rail. I'm not really pleased with it. I'll see how it shakes out.

 

[henschman]

On an Ultimak, the SPARC wouldn't co-witness, but a Strikefire would (it is just a copy of an Aimpoint). Any of the Primary Arms Aimpoint copies would co-witness, too.

Another option to look at (if you're not overloaded by now, lol) is the Midwest Industries Micro-dot mount. It mounts various mini red dots, and some of them co-witness. Info is on their site.

 

[wally]

I've yet to find a sub $200 reflex type sight that stands up. OTOH I've had near universal good results with inexpensive tube type red dots.

+1 to Primary Arms in your price range, although their Micro reflex is yet another example that didn't hold up, but they gave me full credit towards a Burris Fastfire2 that has been fine but is ~$200.

Ultimak rail (or RS Regulate side rail) and the Aimpoint are the way to go. You can buy once or you can buy twice

I like my Primary Arms red dot and Ultimak enough that I'll spring for the Aimpoint if my Primary Arms sight dies. Not willing to spend that kind of money upfront without experience with the setup.

I slightly favor the reflex sight because it doesn't need batteries

Huh? the only ones I know of that don't need batteries are the Trijicon and Meprolight, and these are in the Aimpoint price range, 4-5X his.

I've got a Trijicon RMR on my FNP-45 Tactical and it rocks, but IMHO its dot size options are too large for a primary rifle sight.

 

[kingkeoni]

Bushnell TRS25 is the best red dot that I've found for under $100.

I have used them on more than one AK with the ultimak mount.

Here is a great comparison of the TRS25 and a Burris fastfire 2.
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=1425.0

 

[A_Matthew]

I visited a a local Cabelas today and looked at a couple of red dot sights, including the Vortex Strikefire. After looking at it, it's a little bit bigger than I'd like, but still reasonable. My next choice would be the SPARC, but it's $50 more. My brother has the TRS-25, and it's not quite what I'm looking for. I've considered Primary Arms quite a bit, but the battery life doesn't seem to be quite on par with other red dots. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that...) But then again, no red dot (except for the Aimpoint) is going to have a very good battery life. But then I heard about Trijicon, and their Reflex sight. I really liked the idea of the tritium, so it doesn't need batteries. But I always thought that Trijicon was way out of my price range, until I found this. It's only $100 more than the SPARC, but very high quality, doesn't need batteries, and I really like the 12.9 MOA triangle they're using as the reticle. Very fast close up shots, but still precision enough for longer shots (150yds or so). I'm pretty sure I'll be able to come up with the money within a couple of weeks. So, what do you think of the sight? I'll probably use this as a mount on top of the Ultimak. Even if it isn't able to co-witness, I can live with that.

 

[230therapy]

Seriously...just save up and get the Aimpoint. The lower end optics just don't hold up for anything other than range use.

BTW...start saving up for a Battlecomp for AK's. It's like cheating!

 

[fatcat4620]

Google the kobra red dot sight and you will never look back.

 

[A_Matthew]

The Kobra sight looks good, but the only place I could find it at was here. Is $400 worth it?

So I was looking at Aimpoints, and this one looked like the most affordable one. But once again, it's $400, and the Trijicon is $300. So just how "low end" of an optic is Trijicon? I know that Aimpoints are all good, but I don't know if I can justify the extra $100. Keep in mind that I still have to buy a mount for my AK, which is around $100, and a mount for the red dot itself. So I'm looking at about $450 altogether (with the Trijicon) or add an extra $100 for the Aimpoint. The reason I'm willing to pay so much more for the Trijicon than my original budget allowed is that it doesn't require batteries, which is an important feature in my book. I know that the Aimpoints have a really long battery life, but they still use batteries. And I'd hate to have them run out when I needed them most.

 

[Zombiphobia]

you don't HAVE to spend a lot of money on Aimpoint's or EOTech or BlackHawk or Tango down products to get a utilitarian, functional reflex site or other tactical tool.... just don't expect them to last as long or be as durable.

I have a cheapo plastic one I put on my AK and it works fine. Batteries don't last long, though. If I wanted a tough, reliable tactical site to use in all situations, expect to pay more than 100$

 

[briansmithwins]

The Kobra sight looks good, but the only place I could find it at was here. Is $400 worth it?

So I was looking at Aimpoints, and this one looked like the most affordable one. But once again, it's $400, and the Trijicon is $300. So just how "low end" of an optic is Trijicon? I know that Aimpoints are all good, but I don't know if I can justify the extra $100. Keep in mind that I still have to buy a mount for my AK, which is around $100, and a mount for the red dot itself. So I'm looking at about $450 altogether (with the Trijicon) or add an extra $100 for the Aimpoint. The reason I'm willing to pay so much more for the Trijicon than my original budget allowed is that it doesn't require batteries, which is an important feature in my book. I know that the Aimpoints have a really long battery life, but they still use batteries. And I'd hate to have them run out when I needed them most.

Kobra: Looks good, but don't get the emitter window wet. If you do the reticule will look like a X-Mas tree and will be unusable. Battery life also isn't the greatest. Not worth $400.

Aimpoint battery life: Say your ML3 battery lasts for 6 years. In 12 years you'll have gone thru 2 user replaceable batteries with the Aimpoint. With the Trijicon reflex you'll be thinking about buying a new one as the tritium light source will be 1/2 as bright as new. And Trijicon doesn't replace tritium in expired relex sights.

BSW

 

[henschman]

No, Trijicon is not a lower-end optic. But once again the Reflex sits way too high to get a co-witness or to get good cheek weld with the factory stock. Here is a pic of one on an Ultimak with a low-profile mount:


The Kobra is even worse as far as how high it sits.

What I would do is keep an eye out on some gun forums for used Aimpoints. They can be had for the same or less than what that Reflex was going to cost you. Look in the ar15.com equipment exchange, and if you have a local gun forum for people in your state, check it. Those things are so tough that there is very little downside to buying used. You just have to watch out for Chinese knock-offs.

Yeah, I echo what BSW said about batteries versus tritium. Sure the tritium lasts longer than one battery -- it might even last longer than 2, but probably not 3. And it is a lot easier and cheaper to just change out batteries a couple times than it is to get a new tritium lamp. I am just not sold on the battery free red dots. With the Aimpoint you can leave it on 24/7 365, and the battery will still last for years.

 

[RightWing]

I put the Ultimak top rail and a primary arms compact red dot (the t-1 equivalent) on my SAR1. The sight gives a good picture and is very fast that far forward. I'd have to go check but I believe it co-witnesses with the irons. I believe the whole setup cost me less than $200 from Primary Arms.
I don't use the AK that much, but it was a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[benEzra]

Google the kobra red dot sight and you will never look back.

I currently run a Kobra (gen 2) on my SAR-1, but am looking to switch to an Ultimak/red dot in the future. The Kobra reticles are awesome, but the sight is impossible to cowitness with the irons and sits way too high for a good cheek weld. The Gen-2 model is also a bit on the delicate side (broken switch shafts are a common failure mode, and one which I've experienced) and battery life is under 100 hours on the coin cells (not sure what it is on the AA model). So I like the Kobra, but I think an Ultimak-Aimpoint combo (or, on a budget, Ultimak-PA/Vortex/Burris) does have some advantages.

 

[wally]

The lower end optics just don't hold up for anything other than range use.

How many people here really do anything else?


If the SHTF, I'd have no hesitation to grab any one of my "range guns" that have seen 1000's of problem free rounds independent of how much cash I'd sunk into them.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Wally, you caught us! We're ALL just armchair commandos! Some of us have just been doing it longer.

 

[RatherNotSay]

Seriously...just save up and get the Aimpoint. The lower end optics just don't hold up for anything other than range use.

Are you planing on taking out zombies or something? What PRACTICAL situation are you going to find yourself in that isn't at the range using a red dot? Red dot's are for range and multi gun courses not call of duty modern warfare scenario. True "SHTF" optics should be iron anyway.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

^^Guess you never noticed the optics being used by our troops in Afghanistan or Iraq? What works at the range will work in combat, as long as it's rugged.

 

[A_Matthew]

Well you just sold me on the Aimpoint over the Reflex... But half of me wants to get the Aimpoint, and the other half of me thinks that I won't ever be in a situation where I'll need a $400-500 military quality red dot, so I should just go with a Strikefire or something. Ugh, decisions decisions...

The one thing I just can't stand is the battery life of most of the red dots (such as the Vortex) when compared with the Aimpoint. :banghead: It just seems ludicrous to buy a red dot sight, and then have to change the battery every couple months. Something tells me I'm going to end up buying the Aimpoint...

So is it possible to co-witness the Comp C3 with an Ultimak? Or does Midwest Industries make a mount that would allow it to co-witness.

 

[benEzra]

True "SHTF" optics should be iron anyway.

Unless the "SHTF" occurs under less than ideal lighting conditions, or requires nonstandard shooting positions due to cover/obstacles...

Good optics are about as durable as the rifle is, but if the optics do somehow go down, you can always just look through them and use the irons (if cowitnessed), or remove them and use the irons. But dots do have their place on defensive long guns as well, IMO. They are not a requirement by any means, but they do offer real advantages over irons under some conditions.