Red Dots-Who Wears Them On Their EDC Pistols?

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SwampWolf

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There's no denying the ever-growing celebration of micro red-dot sights (MRD) but I'm wondering what percentage exists between people who are now using them on their edc pistols vs how many are still use ordinary iron sights? I ask the question because, at least in my neck of the woods, I know of no one of the many members in our club who carry concealed who do. Maybe it's because us rednecked Buckeyes are too far behind the curve to matter or maybe not as many people actually carry pistols with MRDs mounted on them that the undeniable popularity of them would seem to predict.

So, who swears by them and who swears at them? Arguments for reasons either way are encouraged. Just curious.
 
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I dont swear at them but they are not for me on a daily defensive carry pistol. I have a spare upper that I have one mounted on for range fun if I want something different. I am much faster and more natural with open sights though. For me I would never use one on a defensive carry pistol if I didnt have to. I am not anti tech. I like lasers and lights but they are out of the way if something goes wrong.

Things seem to be going in all directions right now. Some people going the slide mounted optic route... others going as far as the no sight period route. I still like haveing sights though.

The meprolighte bullseye sights have my attention as well but I have not tried them yet. Seems to give you the benefits of a red dot without the bulk or possible failure drawbacks. see here...

https://www.meprolight.com/product/mepro-ft-bullseye-front-sight/

Been useing tube style red dots for a long time and I always prefered them mounted as far forward as possible in terms of field of view so the meprolight would give me both that, less bulk and obstruction of FOV, and do away with any notion of failure due to electronics. It is also fully protected by the holster with no added bulk. Still looking at them though. As of now I am just useing traditional fixed sights which I am use to and long proven. Back in the old days even adjustable sights on a carry pistol was a no no.

In the end you use what works for you and are comfortable with. We are lucky/spoiled to have so many options available now. Most of my red dot pistols are tube dots mounted off the frame which I prefer but they are range pistols. Be nice if we could get some really short pistol scopes as most are too long for even a duty sized pistol. As it is now red dots are about the best option available for shooting at distance with a semi auto. On a defensive pistol... I dont see myself taking shots at 50-100 yards so its kind of a non issue outside of range fun use.
 
I just went through this analysis and concluded that red dots offer little or no advantage when engaging targets inside 10 yards. Hence the only gun I've equipped with a red dot is my Glock 10mm which is my hiking companion.
 
I think what is driving increasing red dot usage is age. When I was young and had 20-20 vision, I would probably not have been interested in them. But these days, I can either see the target clearly or the iron sights, but not both. Red dot's solve that and put a lot of fun and accuracy back into the sport. All of my CC guns have them. I know I'm responsible for every round I would send downrange in a gunfight (God forbid). So the sight setup I'm most accurate with is what I carry.
 
I use micro dot optics on about half of my EDC pistols. I find them to be faster. They are also easier to use for me with my eye sight as I get older.

And they work just fine for close up shots too. And if the optic were to fail, then it can be used like a big ghost ring sight. A lot of people will also install taller sights (if needed) that are still usable with the optic.

I also find optics to be more accurate since I can focus more on the target and as long as the dot is where I want, I will hit the target where I want.
 
I have one on my EDC 365x. But I don't swear by them. I like it, but I also like iron sights. I went as far as to take a day long class on its use, so I have a better idea of how to properly present the gun using a red dot. It takes a lot of practice and I have not mastered it yet. I went to a .22 competition at a local club which is in a rural area. Most of the participants were 50+ years old and just about all of them had red dots on their pistols. In fact, I was nearly the only one without. Of course, that not EDC guns. Point is, I don't think being redneck rural is stopping anyone. But maybe age (eyes) has a lot to do with it
 
I don’t have one on any gun that might be carried. My rationale is that I’m more likely to snag it trying to draw in a hurry. We came up with concealed and bobbed hammers to avoid snagging, then we started putting these snaggy sights on top?

I guess it is because a lot of us are old and using traditional sights while under stress is unrealistic. I feel like a tritium front makes sense under stress and just forget about the rear.

To me, laser grips make the most sense. Or trigger guard lasers. (if you can find a compatible holster).
 
Another thought:

Previous red dots were very big. Since these are now miniaturized and being pushed hard by the manufacturers, some folks are thinking: “Maybe they’re small enough now to carry…” They’re giving it a try.

In five years, maybe they’ll be forgotten in favor of the next fad. Or maybe they’ll be small enough or integrated into the guns to actually be snag-free?

Still though; well integrated Laser seem to be a superior solution.
 
They are on three carry guns and will soon be on my XDm10MM boonie gun. My only carry guns without them are a Ruger LCPMax and Ruger LCR. I have dots on a Glock 43X, a Glock 48, and a Glock 19. Plan to add a G23 MOS soon.

At 60, and having had PRK eye correction about 15 years ago to bring my 20-350 to 20-20ish, there is no way I can have a clear front sight. I have pretty good distance vision. I have always shot with both eyes open. I am way more accurate with a red dot.

I shot an IDPA match yesterday with my G43X. All I take anymore are head shots. And I rarely don’t score both hits in the bullseye area.

Dots work for me.
 
I have a micro red dot on my EDC (P365 with RomeoZero). In my opinion, red dots are the next evolution for sighting systems. When I present, the red dot is right there in the middle of the lens. My eyes aren't what they used to be and that bright little dot is fast and easy for me to pick up.

They're not for everyone in every circumstance. Do I need that degree of precision for self-defense? Probably not, but it's a comfort to me to have it.
 
With age and deteriorating eyesight I’ve been trying different sighting systems on my range guns. I’m getting better with red dots, learning to acquire quickly but not yet there compared to traditional sights. I also have a 1X prism, fast and clear in good light and recently a laser guard, faster than iron sights in low light. I have not made the transition to carry guns, lack of confidence with some 55 years experience getting on target with open sights and natural point to aim but with continued practice I will at some point make the switch.
 
A unelaborated answer of "no" or have no use for them has various potential reasons why and they aint the same:
- Only (usually) pocket carry so they have no use for them
-
Only (usually) pocket carry so no
-
Carry on belt but primary carry gun is not compatible with dot, not milled.
- Have a gun that is compatible with dot but don't want to carry a dot, prefer fixed sights.
The 1st three possibilities I listed are not the same as the 4th.

I carry a dot; took about 600 rounds for my speed to be on par with fixed sights, after over 800 rounds me & dot are buddies.
fortydot.jpg

ETA: edited because I can't count.
 
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There's no denying the ever-growing celebration of micro red-dot sights (MRD) but I'm wondering what percentage exists between people who are now using them on their edc pistols vs how many are still use ordinary iron sights? I ask the question because, at least in my neck of the woods, I know of no one of the many members in our club who carry concealed who do. Maybe it's because us rednecked Buckeyes are too far behind the curve to matter or maybe not as many people actually carry pistols with MRDs mounted on them that undeniable popularity of them would seem to predict.


So, who swears by them and who swears at them? Arguments for reasons either way are encouraged. Just curious.


Both of my carry guns bear RDSs, the Trijicon RMR to be precise. I made the "it's too bulky" argument for quite some time, and then my eyes betrayed me. I now wear trifocals with blended lenses and there's only one place on the lens that allows me to focus on my front sight. It requires me to hold my head in a position to see through that portion of the lens, that is NOT the position that I've been holding it for six decades of shooting and trying to make the transition had slowed me down that you could time my first shot hits from the holster with a sun dial.


I tried the RDS and struggled trying to find it after bringing my gun up to a firing position. Then I got some professional training and learned how to 'find the dot' as soon as the gun came to a position to allow me to do so. I've not failed to find it in over 1,000 draws.


I don't mind if others steer away from them but I've converted quite a few people by letting them shoot my guns and giving them instruction on how to find the dot. It's frustrating to try and find it if you haven't been shown/taught the best way to do it. At first it's a pretty foreign technique that's required, but one that's easily trained. I get that some don't want to take the time to learn a new technique/method even though it may be better than what came before.


I started out shooting a handgun with one hand (yeah, I'm old) and the other hand was in my pocket. That's what we did back then. Then I learned to shoot using both hands and made the transition. Then my technique was refined by the SWPL and the Weaver Stance. Later on, the Isosceles Stance came along and then was modified. I made both of those transitions. So when my vision went south, trying the RDS was not that difficult, since I'd already progressed as methods improved.


I'll never go back. Even with young eyes, IPSC targets at 50 yards were hard to get good hits on. Now, they're easy. And I've tested myself at 100 yards and can hit a 10" plate with 90% efficiency. Of course both of those distances, and everything in between are VERY rare in self‒defense situations, but I'm a retired LEO and I'm not satisfied with playing the odds. I want to have MORE bases covered. The RDS allows me to do that.
 
I just went through this analysis and concluded that red dots offer little or no advantage when engaging targets inside 10 yards. Hence the only gun I've equipped with a red dot is my Glock 10mm which is my hiking companion.


The stats tell us that most self‒defense situations happens closer than "10 yards," so if that's what you're preparing for, you're good. I like to be prepared for longer distances because I might not be in the 'average' situation. Or, I might need to be highly accurate in a short‒range hostage situation. Back when I was working, this was far more likely to occur, but the habit of wanting to be able to cover more situations than 'the average' is a hard one to break.
 
I dont swear at them but they are not for me on a daily defensive carry pistol. I have a spare upper that I have one mounted on for range fun if I want something different. I am much faster and more natural with open sights though.


I’m wondering, because I hear this quite a bit as an argument against RDS, have you gotten professional training to help with the transition? I ask because I, and everyone that I know who's made the transition finds that with that training, and, of course, lots of dry firing, I'm FASTER and MORE ACCURATE at all distance beyond the intimate.


For me I would never use one on a defensive carry pistol if I didnt have to. I am not anti tech. I like lasers and lights but they are out of the way if something goes wrong.


Many RDS are a window that has projected on it a red dot of light. You're looking through that window to see you target, and then you put the dot where you want the bullet to go. If for some reason, breakage, battery failure, etc., the dot isn't there, your sights ARE. In a proper set‒up, they're visible through the same window that you're looking through to see the dot. It's a simple matter to transition to them. I had such a failure and I immediately transitioned to the sights. Several people were watching and they didn't notice any difference in the string.


I've been around long enough to have heard this identical argument against telescopic sights on rifles, but they have become so reliable that a failure is very rare. And most of them do not have a rapid backup system as does the RDS.


Things seem to be going in all directions right now. Some people going the slide mounted optic route... others going as far as the no sight period route. I still like haveing sights though.


With a proper set up you still "have sights …"


Been useing tube style red dots for a long time and I always prefered them mounted as far forward as possible in terms of field of view so the meprolight would give me both that, less bulk and obstruction of FOV, and do away with any notion of failure due to electronics.


Keeping mind that ANY piece of gear can fail, I once brought my night‒sight‒equipped‒duty‒gun up to my eye only to discover that the tritium vial had fallen out of my front sight. Granted, electronics are more prone to failure than mechanical systems, but that's why I still have sights on my carry guns.


It is also fully protected by the holster with no added bulk.


No denying that they are added "bulk," weight, cost, and maintenance. But for me, the advantages of speed and accuracy are well worth it.


Still looking at them though. As of now I am just useing traditional fixed sights which I am use to and long proven. Back in the old days even adjustable sights on a carry pistol was a no no.


Progress. You can fight it or ride the wave. Lol.


In the end you use what works for you and are comfortable with.


The problem with progress is that it requires us to adapt to new methods, new tools and new ways of thinking. None of those things are more "comfortable."


I dont see myself taking shots at 50-100 yards so its kind of a non issue outside of range fun use.


I see the possibility. My idea of a horror show is an active shooter in a mall. I want to be able to deal with that, no matter how remote the possibility. And meanwhile, hitting that steel plate at 100 yards, makes me giggle like a little kid.
 
For me, an RDS on an EDC is simply a waste of time money and effort, and also a bad idea regarding reliability. I don't see that opinion changing until I can no longer see high visibility iron sights well enough to shoot with reasonable accuracy.
 
For me, an RDS on an EDC is simply a waste of time money and effort, and also a bad idea regarding reliability. I don't see that opinion changing until I can no longer see high visibility iron sights well enough to shoot with reasonable accuracy.


Ever seen one of Aaron Cowan's 'torture tests?' He puts 2,000 rounds through a gun as quickly as he can reload and fire. Guns with metal frames get so hot that he has to wear gloves to protect his hands from being burned.


Every RDS equipped gun gets 4 (or 5, I forget which) drop tests (every 500 rounds) from head height onto the RDS, onto a hard surface, such as cement or asphalt. So far, I think, every one of them has survived. HOWEVER, he's taken to putting masking tape over the front sights of guns being test this way. He says that too many of them have simply snapped off from impact with the ground. So while no one expects that they'll drop their gun in such a fashion, it shows that iron sights are not immune from all damage.


So as far as reliability under this measure of abuse, RDSs are MORE reliable than iron sights. I've had the tritium vial fall out of a front night sight and broken the blade of a S&W rear sight. I've never broken a RDS. I did allow a screw to loosen and had the other screw break on my RMR. It went flying during a course of fire. But I simply transitioned to my iron sights and continued the string.
 
Ever seen one of Aaron Cowan's 'torture tests?' He puts 2,000 rounds through a gun as quickly as he can reload and fire. Guns with metal frames get so hot that he has to wear gloves to protect his hands from being burned.


Every RDS equipped gun gets 4 (or 5, I forget which) drop tests (every 500 rounds) from head height onto the RDS, onto a hard surface, such as cement or asphalt. So far, I think, every one of them has survived. HOWEVER, he's taken to putting masking tape over the front sights of guns being test this way. He says that too many of them have simply snapped off from impact with the ground. So while no one expects that they'll drop their gun in such a fashion, it shows that iron sights are not immune from all damage.


So as far as reliability under this measure of abuse, RDSs are MORE reliable than iron sights. I've had the tritium vial fall out of a front night sight and broken the blade of a S&W rear sight. I've never broken a RDS. I did allow a screw to loosen and had the other screw break on my RMR. It went flying during a course of fire. But I simply transitioned to my iron sights and continued the string.

That's great for you and for Aaron. I don't need to be dropping any of my guns on a regular basis to see if they'll break. I also don't need to fire magazine after magazine as fast as I can to make the gun hot enough to cook with. Of course, reliability isn't just a measure of how hard of a hit something can take. It also has to do with continuing to function under adverse conditions. With an RDS, the light emitter must continue to be powered, continue to be unobscured in order to project a dot, project it in the correct place relative to the barrel (meaning keep zero and not come loose), and the lens onto which it is projected must remain unobscured by whatever may come (blood, mud, snow, dirt, salsa, vomit, etc).

I don't need the extra hassle or the extra questions about whether it will all function as intended when I need it most. I also do not want to have to add extra tall sights that can co-witness through an RDS, which adds yet more bulk and possibility of snagging. It also strikes me that a significantly taller front sight is much more likely to break under impact, due to the additional leverage the present.

But as things can and do fail, I carry a backup gun. That way if I have any kind of failure with my primary (including dropping it and breaking off the front sight), I still have a functional firearm to defend myself.
 
I am currently transitioning from a S&W Model 19 revolver in .357 to a Glock 29 subcompact in 10mm, fitted with an RMR.

I generally have not bought into the argument that revolvers are obsolete for defensive carry. Historically, very, very few CCW gunfights have required more than six rounds, and even fewer appeared to have involved reloading.

But with the rise of mass shooters - and the welcome rise of mass shooters being stopped by CCW holders - it may be wise to reevaluate. The Greenwood mall shooting, wherein the good guy required 10 rounds to win the fight, was the last straw for me, and I decided to make the change.

The decision to add the optic was easy. I am used to the exceptional iron sights found on older S&W revolvers and was completely unimpressed with the Glock irons. The sight radius on the subcompact Glock also falls into the range where it begins to have an effect on precision - and again using the example of the Greenwood incident, 40+ yard shots appear to have become a more realistic scenario. I shot a dot in competition when they were brand new, and there was no question that scores increased because of them. The newest generation of these sights are so small that they don't affect carrying at all, at least for me, and I am impressed by both battery life and toughness/reliability.

I am an old codger, and had to spend a few years thinking it over, but I am convinced that dots have a place in CCW. They are not and never will be ideal for every person in every situation, but they are superior in some applications. The only real downside, for me, is that the sight and the slide cut more than doubled the cost of the gun!
 
That's great for you and for Aaron. I don't need to be dropping any of my guns on a regular basis to see if they'll break. I also don't need to fire magazine after magazine as fast as I can to make the gun hot enough to cook with.


Your post was a rather complete condemnation of RDSs based on " time money and effort, and also a bad idea regarding … reliability." Aaron regularly demonstrates how reliable RDSs are, contrary to your opinion. Do you have any actual cases of one breaking such that it could not be used?


I remember when scope sights were coming on the scene for everyday use by hunters. There were grave warnings issued describing how fragile they were and how they'd not be there when the trophy (fill in the animal of your choice here) stepped out of the tree line and you missed the shot of a lifetime! But now there are LOTS of hunting rifles out there that have scopes on them. While scopes have disadvantages (everything is a compromise ‒ right?) they were overcome by the benefits. I think the RDS is similar.


Of course, reliability isn't just a measure of how hard of a hit something can take. It also has to do with continuing to function under adverse conditions. With an RDS, the light emitter must continue to be powered, continue to be unobscured in order to project a dot, project it in the correct place relative to the barrel (meaning keep zero and not come loose), and the lens onto which it is projected must remain unobscured by whatever may come (blood, mud, snow, dirt, salsa, vomit, etc).


Much of this comment is DIRECTLY related to "how hard of a hit something can take." The only part that was not, was about 'obscuring the emitter.' And there you're right. In some designs the emitter is protected from the things you mentioned, "blood, mud, snow, [etc.]" so it's not an issue. But with the other designs the emitter is out there, in the open, inviting obstructions. But it's usually fairly easy to clear many of these obstructions. If it can't be done, the irons are still right there.


And let's not forget that iron sights can also be obstructed by the same objects that you mentioned.


I don't need the extra hassle or the extra questions about whether it will all function as intended when I need it most.


No body "needs" a RDS. But many folks find them helpful, useful and FASTER AND MORE ACCURATE than irons, particularly those of us with certain vision issues, many of which come with age.


It's telling though that many LEAs are issuing handguns with RDS mounted on them and many more are allowing their officers to carry them if they pass a qual test. They seem to think that the advantages (such as greater accuracy and speed) outweigh the disadvantages.


I also do not want to have to add extra tall sights that can co-witness through an RDS, which adds yet more bulk and possibility of snagging. It also strikes me that a significantly taller front sight is much more likely to break under impact, due to the additional leverage the present.


There is no need for a "co‒witness." The irons just need to be tall enough so that they can be lined up (front and rear sight) through the RDS window. In fact, many prefer that they NOT be set up with a co‒witness. It allows for a larger, unobscured window.


Remember when ALL sporting rifles came with iron sights? Many hunters kept them on, even though they mounted a scope, in case the scope could not be used. We even have hunting rifle scope mounts that have a "quick release" function so the scope can be removed in the field w/o tools.


But nowadays we see rifles intended for hunting sold, not only without iron sights, but not even a provision for mounting them! Scopes only baby. Lol


BTW, RDSs are far more rugged than early scope sights, especially the top of the line models that are intended for carry.


You're obviously correct that "[a] taller [sight] is much more likely to break under impact," since the ground will have more leverage than against a standard height sight. But then, since it will have come from a "hard hit" your RDS would still be working and you'd not need that front sight. (If I did emoticons there would be a smiley face here).


But as things can and do fail, I carry a backup gun. That way if I have any kind of failure with my primary (including dropping it and breaking off the front sight), I still have a functional firearm to defend myself.


That's not a bad idea, no matter what one carries as their primary. I'd bet that you practice transitions from your primary to your secondary too. Good onya.
 
I don’t have an RDS on my carry gun, but only because I haven’t upgraded it yet. I don’t know if I’m absolutely more accurate with an RDS or irons, but I do know I am more accurate when shooting quickly with an RDS, because I’ve shot a handgun in competition in both configurations. From all accounts, if you are involved in a self defense shooting, you will be shooting quickly.

The early slide mounted red dots weren’t ready for prime time, and I “killed” a few myself. The current generation is reliable, durable and has a battery life of more than a year. They aren’t wider than the slides for the most part. If I pocket carried or had an extreme carry cant, I might reconsider a red dot.
 
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