Relinquishing Your Sidearm To LEO's At Minor Traffic Stops.

[Single Action Six]

Is it really SAFE to relinquish your sidearm during a minor traffic stop LEO encounter..!!..?

There are some states, when interacting with a LEO, where one must inform the LEO that they are in possession of a firearm. At the time of notification some LEO's will temporarily relieve the person of their sidearm, unload it.. and then at the end of the interaction, hand the empty firearm (along with the separate ammunition), back.

My question has to to with the SAFETY aspect of the LEO trying to "make safe" your sidearm, when in various situations, that same LEO is most likely unfamiliar with your sidearm that he/she's handling. As we all know (and this is in NO way any disrespect to the men and women who wear a shield), but.. many of them are NOT firearms people. There are departments from border to border whos officers only intimate encounter with their sidearm (or any firearm for that matter), is when they have their yearly qualifications.

This now brings up the question of.. "How SAFE really is it to hand over a loaded sidearm to a LEO who (in a great likelihood), is unfamiliar with even the basic operation of that firearm?" I've always felt (as well as others), that (in situations described above), the SAFEST place for your sidearm is in the holster.

Here's a short gun show story that one can use as a comparison.

Went to a gun show and at the door was a firearms safety person. As always, I presented my empty pistol with the slide locked back.. and the empty mag inserted. Upon handing the pistol to the safety person/gun checker he dropped the mag on to the table top and hit the slide release. As he did this I picked up my mag and started to hand it to him saying.. "You need to put this back in the gun....", but before I could continue with what I was going to say, he gave me the old evil eye saying quite loudly.. "NO magazines are allowed in the guns".

Still standing there with the mag offered to him I watched as he fumbled around pulling the trigger while trying to drop the hammer so he could tie wrap it. This circus act continued for about 30 seconds or so.. all for naught. Finally he looked back up at me and said something to the affect that "he couldn't allow me to bring the pistol into the show because he was unable to drop the hammer due to the fact the pistol was broken.. and thus was unable to tie wrap it like he had the others". I calmly took the pistol from him, inserted the empty mag.. squeezed the trigger and dropped the hammer. (ie: Without the mag in, you're unable to pull the trigger. It's one of the 5 different safety features on this firearm.)

So.. if a gun show safety person, who I found out later had many years of handling all different types of firearms, is unable to render a pistol safe (drop the hammer).. just how safe is it to hand over ones "LOADED" (especially if it's "cocked & locked), sidearm to a neophyte LEO firearms person?

Please comment.. Thank You.

Single Action Six

 

[deadin]

All well and fine. You may even be right, but are you going to tell a LEO that you won't hand over you gun because he might be a fumble fingers and have it go off while trying to unload it?

If so, I can definitely see a ticket in your future.....(At the very least)

 

[Dave P]

"Is it really SAFE to relinquish your sidearm during a minor traffic stop LEO encounter..!!..?"

Of course not! Every time someone handle a firearm, the probability of a negligent discharge rises dramatically (since the probability is practically zero when no one is handling the weapon).

Don't buy the bs story about "this is for your safety, as well as mine."

 

[Tommygunn]

In my state the state police often conduct stops to inspect insurance compliance. At one such stop I nformed the officer I was legally armed and handed him my drivers license and gun permit. He took the gun briefly while I handed him proof of insurance.
He asked if it was loaded, but at no time did he stick a finger inside the trigger guard or manipulate the gun's mechanism in any way.
Hopefully, any officer that handles a weapon in this situation will do it as this officer did.
How Ohio fares with the dumbed-down officers .......

 

[Single Action Six]

It's Obvious That You Missed The Whole Point Of My Post!

All well and fine. You may even be right, but are you going to tell a LEO that you won't hand over you gun because he might be a fumble fingers and have it go off while trying to unload it?

If so, I can definitely see a ticket in your future.....(At the very least)

It's Obvious That You Missed The Whole Point Of My Post!

It wasn't whether or not I would tell a LEO that I wasn't going to hand over my sidearm.. but rather do YOU, as a LCP holder, really feel SAFE doing so, knowing that there's a very good chance the LEO involved might not be as firearm savvy as one would want.. and because of it, the possibility of a negligent discharge could occur.

Single Action Six

 

[danprkr]

In TX it doesn't matter whether you think it's safe or not. Or even whether it's safe or not. It's strictly at the LEO's discretion. If you are asked you MUST surrender the weapon for the duration of the stop.

 

[HexHead]

I would have been pretty sore about his releasing the slide release and slamming home the slide on an empty chamber.

 

[Dreamcast270mhz]

I would hand it over, but tell him what he needed to do to unload it

 

[nbkky71]

There's no guarantee that the officer isn't a fumble fingers. But then again, there's no guarantee that the guy next to you at the range isn't either. I guess you'll never really know... I think the calmer everyone is (both you and the officer) in the situation, the less likely something will go wrong.

The two times that I had to relinquish my pistol the officer took it back to his cruiser, so handling was kept to a minimum. Never was my pistol in his posession when he conducted his traffic stop/interview.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Safe? No.

Required? Yes, if they want to disarm you "for officer safety."

 

[Mags]

If I was a LEO and knew you had a loaded CCW, I figure the safest thing to do would be to not unneccesarily handle a loaded firearm. And if I was in fear of you using your piece the last thing I would want would be for you to reach for your loaded weapon.

 

[BLB68]

Why not clear the weapon and then hand it over? Tell the officer you're going to clear it for his safety and yours.

Remove the magazine before you unholster it, slowly unholster it keeping the muzzle oriented to the floorboards of your vehicle, then rack the slide, and ease it back down. Explain what you're going to do before you do it.

I won't hand anyone, much less someone I don't know, a weapon that hasn't been cleared.

 

[W.E.G.]

Is it safe?



I think no.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why not clear the weapon and then hand it over? Tell the officer you're going to clear it for his safety and yours.

Remove the magazine before you unholster it, slowly unholster it keeping the muzzle oriented to the floorboards of your vehicle, then rack the slide, and ease it back down. Explain what you're going to do before you do it.

I won't hand anyone, much less someone I don't know, a weapon that hasn't been cleared.

IF the subject comes up during a traffic stop, the officer is already concerned about his "safety." Since the officer is already concerned about his "safety," do you REALLY think it is a good idea to put your hand on your gun and remove it from the holster?!?

I think you would greatly increase the chances of a firearm discharge if you did.

 

[Single Action Six]

It seems Like You Too missed My Point!

In TX it doesn't matter whether you think it's safe or not. Or even whether it's safe or not. It's strictly at the LEO's discretion. If you are asked you MUST surrender the weapon for the duration of the stop.

Once again, it's NOT whether I would or wouldn't.. should or shouldn't, but rather if YOU feel it's the safest thing to do (NOT whether it's legal, or you're required to do it under the law), but rather do YOU, as a LCP holder, "REALLY FEEL SAFE DOING SO", knowing that there's a very good chance the LEO involved might not be as firearm savvy as one would want.. and because of it, the possibility of a negligent discharge occurring.

Single Action Six

 

[rscalzo]

Quite frankly I've had experience with firearms since the mid 60's. The last thing I would want to do is have to handle firearms during a traffic stop along with all the other issues. Unless there was some issue warranting such an action, i don't see it as a norm.

Years back all you had to deal with was the standard S&W or Colt and maybe one or two others. In today's market, there are too many makes and models to be familiar with them all. I've come across a few during RO duties that take some time to determine the method of safe operation. Is a traffic stop or mva in traffic the time to learn? Don't think so.

 

[Sam1911]

Is it SAFE? No, of course not -- even if every officer WAS familiarized with every kind of firearm they might see on the street, unnecessary handling, loading, and unloading of firearms greatly increases the chances of negligent discharges ... on a public street, no less!

How do I feel about it? Worried about a negligent discharge, worried about a horrible misunderstanding in the hand-over resulting in bloodshed, angry at being lied to.

Lied to? Yes. If the officer is concerned for his safety, my disclosure of the presence of a firearm -- and certainly my (however unhappy) willingness to be disarmed -- tells him both more and less than he needs to know bout my intentions and his 'safety.'

In reality it is a form of not-so-subtle power display (I can be armed but you must be defenseless).

It is also often an occasion to perform what I consider to be an unreasonable search -- i.e.: running the serial numbers just to make sure the gun wasn't stolen absent any possible probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.

Now, if I may ask, what is the point of this thread? We know it isn't safe. We know it is questionably legal. We know it is tactically absurd. Those thing are established.

So what are we to do about it? (Aside, of course, from all moving to states like PA with no duty to inform...)

 

[armoredman]

In AZ we are NOT required to inform, but the officer MAY ask, and then we MUST inform upon request. At this time the officer MAY take temporary custody during the lawful contact.
If I say nothing and the officer doesn't ask, no issue, but given my employ I will inform...I think. Haven't had a traffic violation in almost 20 years, forgot how to get pulled over.

 

[MarkDozier]

I have been thinking this over a lot recently and if the COP wants me weapon he will either allow me to clear it or he will be able to explain to me the process to clear it himself.
If I don't feel comfortable I will tell him so. if he still wants the weapon I will have him verbally dec,are that he is taking charge of a weapon he is unfamiliar with and he is taking responsibilty for any issue that occurs while the weapon is in his charge.
I would also ask him to put it in writing to protect us both in case of problems.
I will not cowtow to cops simply becuase they are cops. And for all the extra time it takes, well i will have done my part to get him home tonight.

 

[HorseSoldier]

If I was a LEO and knew you had a loaded CCW, I figure the safest thing to do would be to not unneccesarily handle a loaded firearm. And if I was in fear of you using your piece the last thing I would want would be for you to reach for your loaded weapon.

This is a common logic among officers who do not take possession of weapons during a traffic stop.

 

[slabuda]

Good news here in Ohio THEY ARE GOING TO DUMB DOWN The tests so more minority,s can pass the law enforcement test, to become police officers that will be handling our firearms in traffic stops

Just a wee bit racist and NOT very High Road...You are suggesting "minorities" and are not as smart as "non-minorities". That train of thougt should have gone the way of Jim Crow laws....

 

[Ole Coot]

I have a simple formula I have used the few times I have been pulled over. I turn off the motor, hit the hazard flashers, have the window down, both hands on top of the wheel and when asked for my license & registration I tell the officer I am legally carrying a loaded firearm and where it is located. Then it is up to the officer. I did hand over mine once, held it in a non threatening position, dropped the mag, held the base of the grip and racked it open ejecting & locking the slide. He watched closely then told me to lay it in the seat. He walked back to his cruiser, wrote a ticket and as he handed it to me he asked if I had a CCW, I answered yes did he want to see it. He said No and that was that. If he wanted it I would still have been able to drop the mag and lock the slide before handing it to him.

 

[InkEd]

I think if they get to hold MY gun for THEIR safety, then I should get to hold THEIR gun for MY safety. Equally, we could just BOTH just be intelligent, respectful law-abidding adults and just keep OUR OWN guns for OUR OWN safety.

 

[Single Action Six]

The Question Was.. "What Is The Point Of This Thread"??

It was stated in part..

Now, if I may ask, what is the point of this thread? So what are we to do about it? (Aside, of course, from all moving to states like PA with no duty to inform...)

What is the point of ANY thread? To receive additional information (and thus opinions) on a particular subject to see 1.) If they're different from yours.. and 2.) If there seems to be a negativity on that particular subject, to solicit possible remedies to solve that which may be a problem.

From my perspective, I'm open to all suggestions which will make the interactions with LEO's while carrying easier.. and SAFER. If this means sitting down and talking with whoever's in charge of training for that dept, so be it. If it means writing them a letter.. or sending a e-mail expressing my concerns, well.. that can be done too.

Your mileage may very on this subject.

Single Action Six

P.S. Thank You to all of those who answered my posts. I appreciate it.

SAS

 

[JerryM]

Whether or not one might think it unsafe, you had better do as directed by a LEO. You refuse at your peril.

Regards,
Jerry