reload issues with semiautos

[CyberRon]

I have only been reloading for a couple years, and until recently have reloaded for 45-70, 45 Colt, and 454 Casull. Because of the ammo shortage, I decided to give it a whirl with my 9mm and 40 S&W.

I use good hard-cast bullets (Mastercast and Penn Bullets) and range brass or spent factory brass that has been cleaned (ultrasonic), and Hornady Nitride die sets.

I am meticulous as I go through the load process, I do a complete size, then bell the cases slightly for the bullets, and then seat the bullet for optimal depth, and add a slight crimp. I use Hornady One Shot lube so that the bullet slides in well.

I have loaded two types of bullets for the 9mm - truncated cone and round nose, and one for the 40 S&W - round nose flat point.

The problem is that after loading the round nose 9mm and the 40 S&W, the bullets won't chamber. I eventually purchased Wilson gages to double check and it won't go in them either. The TC 9mm has no issue.

I am using a taper crimp with all loads, but can't find anywhere how much to apply (I see the words "slight taper" crimp - but no definition of "slight").

I was able to get the 40 S&W (the worst) to chamber by full resize of loaded cartridge (with decap stem removed). I actually fed one from a magazine and it "stuck" in the gun and wouldn't eject. I was at home so I was able to work it out safely.

The 9mm isn't as bad - most will chamber (from the magazine) and shoot, but I get an occasional FTF because the bolt isn't completely shut.

I purchased the gage to see what might be happening. They are tight and won't enter the gage at all.

I didn't check for swelling at the crimp, but could this be what is happening? Am I crimping too much? If so, how do I set the taper crimp properly (I purchased 4-die sets with a separate taper die)? I can't see any instructions anywhere I've searched.

 

[rcmodel]

I use Hornady One Shot lube so that the bullet slides in well.

Don't do that!

It will destroy the case neck tension / friction, and that's all that keeps the bullet from being driven deeper in the case during feeding.
That can result in very high pressure and possible KaBooms.

Taper-crimp 9mm to measure .376" at the case mouth.
Taper-crimp .40 S&W to measure .421" at the case mouth.


You may also be seating too long with the TC and RN-FP bullet shapes and they are hitting the rifling leade before fully chambering.

Take the barrels out of the guns and use them at the loading press to 'plunk-test' the seating length to insure they are seated short enough to fully chamber.

They should drop in full depth flush with the barrel hood with a Plunk, and fall back out under their own weight.

rc

 

[judgedelta]

Will your sized cases fit in your guage? The purpose of the taper crimp is mainly to take the bell out of the mouth of the case so the round will headspace on the mouth. Usually a half turn on the crimp die will be enough taper crimp. Read the directions that came with your die set. What are you doing with the one shot lube???

 

[thefish]

Are the bullets not chambering because:

The cases are too large?
or
You don't have enough setback?

First, I would do the plunk test and check your OAL with the gun barrel. You may be too long on the OAL, and the bullet itself is running into the lands

Second, size an empty case, and see if that case will chamber into the barrel.

Possibly do a run without the bell and crimp and see if those will chamber?

 

[gamestalker]

A good method to diagnose the issue is, take a loaded cartridge that doesn't chamber properly, color the entire body and the bullet of the cartridge with a sharpie and chamber it. When you get it unstuck from the barrel, look for where the sharpie has been rubbed of, that will be where the problem is.

Now, once you've found the problems area, or area's, you'll be able to make the necessary adjustments to your die. You may not be removing enough of the bell, or the bullet may be jamming into the lands, you might also have bulged cases down near the case head from over pressure loads, or from being shot out of poorly supported chambers, or what ever the cause, you should now be able to quickly and positively identify the problem.

Using the plunk test with the barrel removed, you should be able to easily monitor the adjustment process to get them function reliably and correctly.

GS

 

[CyberRon]

Thanks for the quick (and helpful) response - to all!!

As for the OAL it may be too long as I am using the setting in the data manual - may say "max" - have to recheck. I am setting exactly to that length.

For the 9mm that may be the case - used the same OAL for both TC and RN and the TC worked fine (for the most part) - had far fewer misfeeds. I purchased the gages after shooting all the RN so I don't know if the diameter was too much.

The 40 S&W wouldn't even feed - nor would it fit in the gage. I can see the crimp - looks more like a roll crimp and down about 1/32 from the mouth.

The One Shot I spray into the case mouths before adding powder to lubricate the cast bullet so that it seats more easily. I had ruined some 454 brass by not having the bell wide enough and not using the One Shot. The case collapsed when seating the bullet.

I didn't see any stress on the case by resizing - will have to recheck the dimensions. Once I did this, the cartridges slid into the Wilson gages and I had no feed issues. I was using a minimum charge, so is over-pressure still an issue?

I will have to check all dimensions - before, during, and after loading - especially using the gage while setting the taper crimp. Like I said, I'm fairly new to reloading in general - brand new to semi-auto cartridges (these were my first attempt). The revolver (Raging Bull) has never been an issue - for 454 or 45 Colt. The 45-70 sometimes had trouble getting the bolt closed completely but never had a misfire. My Rossi M92 on the other hand has had problems feeding the 45 Colt loads.

I think my problem may be two-fold - too much OAL and too much crimp (for fear of the bullet moving with recoil). I have read a number of threads where not having enough crimp was the problem. Also, some load data uses just OAL and others use Max OAL. The problem was finding load data for hard cast bullets. Finally got a Lymans load manual which has tons more info. I also had the Laser Cast data for their bullets and used their OAL figures directly.

I will have to try the sharpie trick on all my loads to see if I can refine my process and determine the optimum OAL for each weapon.

As for the directions, they are very vague. This is what has frustrated me the most! From the instruction manual (for the die set - which includes the taper crimp die):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thread the seater die body into the press until it meets
resistance (again, at that point, the mouth of the case has
met resistance with the crimper.)

Thread the seater die body into the press in small increments
(one-sixteenth turns) each time operating the handle. At the
completion of each stroke, inspect the cartridge for the
proper crimp.

Once you’ve reached the desired crimp (with the cartridge
still in the die), tighten the die body lock ring.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks again for all your help. I'm just picking this up as a hobby for my retirement years. Still too busy at work to get enough practice at this currently (loading and shooting). Will have to concentrate on it more.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Did you think to change the seating stems in your seating dies to round nose profiles? You could be seating them crooked.

 

[steve4102]

Try This.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[345 DeSoto]

Have you sized the lead bullets to the proper size...before seating them in the cases?...

 

[judgedelta]

If you're crimping with the seater die, be sure and unscrew the seater stem back out of the way... If the directions are confusing, look for a video on Utube. It is really simple after you have seen it done.