reloading set up for 5.56 OR .223 Remington

[flexible]

Hi everyone, been reloading pistol for decades and rifle for over a year. Finally figured out what I'm doing in rifle (6.5 Creedmoor & 6mm PPC) fireforming brass, using the Hornady Lock & Load gauge & the Sinclair head/shoulder space gauge.
BUT, I have a S&W M&P in 5.56/223 that I have a lot of used brass for - it used to be cheaper to buy than reload.
Any suggestions for set up? I don't want to get as crazy as my loading for the Creedmoor or 6mm PPC but don't mind spending a few bucks - i have $300 in credit at Brownells.
I have a Dillon 550C i use for pistol (but with an extra head i could put dies in) and a Redding T7 i use for rifle.
BTW, dumb question are the dies for 5.56 & 223 different?
thanks
flexible

 

[ms6852]

I use plenty of range brass for my AR's. Simple setup using Lee dies. I have a RRA and a M&P15 S&W. My RRA I use to 500 yards and shoots sub-moa with 75gr Hornady BTHP bullets and RL15 powder. I just full size every case and trim to length according to the manual, since I use Hornady bullets I use the Hornady manual. I loaded different manufacturers and bullet weights and worked up loads and found out my RRA did not like lighter bullets. So I simplified my loading by using only 75gr Hornady for both rifles and the same powder. My M&P15 is my hog rifle with a Vortex Spitfire Prism 3X. Not as accurate as the RRA at 200 yards because optics are different but plenty accurate to bring down over 20 hogs this year.

 

[Saluki91]

Price of loading 50 rounds of 5.56 vs. buying a Winchester white box may be a wash after the initial investment, but the ability dial in your loads (and the fun of reloading) makes the purchases well worth it in my opinion.

1 - The dies are the same. If you are just ringing steel and punching paper, there is no need to invest a King's ransom in dies. Lee, Hornady, etc. make very good ammo.
2 - I suggest you get the caliber conversion kit and use your Dillon for feeding your M&P. It will crank out a ton of good ammo in a short period of time.
3 - Using the extra tool head is a good idea. I use one tool head for prep (decapping and sizing prior to swage and trim), and another head for powder charge, seating, and crimp. Whatever you trim your 6.5 and 6mm with can be used for 5.56.
4 - You will need to swage those 5.56 cases. The Dillon Super Swage is a good investment, as is a mount for same.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/super-swage-600_8_8_25263.html
There are many mounts to choose from. You will want one if you load any amount of 5.56. I like this one:
https://www.facebook.com/burnellcus...e-600-cut-your-processing-t/3465108996845358/
5 - These are a good deal to get you started - $.09 per pill after the discount (sale ends today) and free shipping.
https://americanreloading.com/en/22-caliber-222-227/3129-223-55gr-fmj-bt-w-cannelure-1000ct.html
RMR has a good one as well.
https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...5-gr-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-bullets-new/
6 - The money you saved on less expensive dies and bullets will be needed when you buy primers. Yikes! $.10 per primer is a smokin' deal right now. $.12 per is probably the best you will do if you order on-line.
7 - Find a comfy chair, pop some popcorn, and ask the hive abut their favorite powder for 5.56. ; - )

Have fun!

 

[stillquietvoice]

I found out that my psa AR likes 62 gr hornandy hpbt better than all of the 55 -68 gr bullets I've tried in it. I did use military 5.56 data for it though. Even so it still shot well with the 62 gr loads that i made for my bolt action 223. Made to lower pressure. I bought several pounds of ramshot tac so first loads, developed, gave better accuracy than I was getting with my bolt gun.

 

[MakBaba]

I found out that my psa AR likes 62 gr hornandy hpbt better than all of the 55 -68 gr bullets I've tried in it. I did use military 5.56 data for it though. Even so it still shot well with the 62 gr loads that i made for my bolt action 223. Made to lower pressure. I bought several pounds of ramshot tac so first loads, developed, gave better accuracy than I was getting with my bolt gun.

I also like the Hornady 62s
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/rifle-bullets/-point-224-dia

 

[ballman6711]

I found out that my psa AR likes 62 gr hornandy hpbt better than all of the 55 -68 gr bullets I've tried in it. I did use military 5.56 data for it though. Even so it still shot well with the 62 gr loads that i made for my bolt action 223. Made to lower pressure. I bought several pounds of ramshot tac so first loads, developed, gave better accuracy than I was getting with my bolt gun.

I also have the Hornady 62gr hpbt and am having trouble finding data. What data did you use?

chris

 

[MakBaba]

Hodgdon, Sierra, Western powders, and others put out free data online. Any jacketed lead core 62 gr. data should get you going

 

[Docendo Discimus]

favorite powder for 5.56. ; - )

W748

 

[3D-Seth]

Price of loading 50 rounds of 5.56 vs. buying a Winchester white box may be a wash after the initial investment, but the ability dial in your loads (and the fun of reloading) makes the purchases well worth it in my opinion.

1 - The dies are the same. If you are just ringing steel and punching paper, there is no need to invest a King's ransom in dies. Lee, Hornady, etc. make very good ammo.
2 - I suggest you get the caliber conversion kit and use your Dillon for feeding your M&P. It will crank out a ton of good ammo in a short period of time.
3 - Using the extra tool head is a good idea. I use one tool head for prep (decapping and sizing prior to swage and trim), and another head for powder charge, seating, and crimp. Whatever you trim your 6.5 and 6mm with can be used for 5.56.
4 - You will need to swage those 5.56 cases. The Dillon Super Swage is a good investment, as is a mount for same.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/super-swage-600_8_8_25263.html
There are many mounts to choose from. You will want one if you load any amount of 5.56. I like this one:
https://www.facebook.com/burnellcus...e-600-cut-your-processing-t/3465108996845358/
5 - These are a good deal to get you started - $.09 per pill after the discount (sale ends today) and free shipping.
https://americanreloading.com/en/22-caliber-222-227/3129-223-55gr-fmj-bt-w-cannelure-1000ct.html
RMR has a good one as well.
https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...5-gr-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-bullets-new/
6 - The money you saved on less expensive dies and bullets will be needed when you buy primers. Yikes! $.10 per primer is a smokin' deal right now. $.12 per is probably the best you will do if you order on-line.
7 - Find a comfy chair, pop some popcorn, and ask the hive abut their favorite powder for 5.56. ; - )

Have fun!

Good advice here from @Saluki91.

I have two toolheads setup on my 550b. One is for my generic 'plinking' ammo, typically 55gr pills, and another I have setup for more accurate or gun-specific loads. On my plinking toolhead, I'm just using your average full-length sizing dies and swaging/trimming cases. Other than the trimming/swaging taking a bit of time, you can load a lot of ammo pretty quickly on a 550.

 

[Chuck R.]

I load my 3Gun match loads and practice ammo on my 550, I load my precision and varmint loads on a single stage.

Even when I load with the 550 I use it more like a single stage by batch loading. This is my annual process for a couple thousand rounds of range pick-up 3Gun brass/loads:

1. De-prime on an old RCBS RockChucker
2. Clean with SS Pins wet tumble
3. Check primer pockets for crimps/wear (swage the crimped, discard the loose)
4. Anneal (not usually needed, but I've got a machine, so what the heck might as well)
5. Sort and Segregate (some brass will move on to precision/varmint loads)
6. The 3Gun and practice stuff gets FL sized on the 550 (I have a separate tool head with just a sizer die on it.
7. Run all through a Dillon vibratory cleaner to remove lube
8. Run all though a Giraud Tri-Way trimmer on a drill press (faster than bothering to measure)
9. Load on the Dillon 550 (minus sizing die)

The above is my post hunting season, still dark early, and the weather sucks annual ritual, usually done in FEB/MAR.

 

[Phantom 309]

I also have the Hornady 62gr hpbt and am having trouble finding data. What data did you use?

chris

I'm pretty sure I downloaded this image from the hornady website under discontinued bullets a while back, but dont recall for sure. Here's a screenshot of the data I found, I don't think it was in my 10th edition hornady book, and that's what lead me to look online. This is 5.56 data, see next post for .223 data with more powder options

 

[Phantom 309]

 

[DMW1116]

I remove primer crimp from any 223 or 5.56 case. I've had too much trouble with 223 having a crimp when I thought it didn't.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I also have the Hornady 62gr hpbt and am having trouble finding data. What data did you use?

chris

I got data at shooters reference, it's a database of manufactures load data.

I got my data from shooters refrence

Shooters reference, a database of manufactures data.

 

[z7]

Load 223 on the Dillon and get a drill press based trimmer that chamfers while trimming, and get a drill based primer crimp remover (cheapest) or a Dillon super swager

work in batches, pick up all the range brass that everyone walks away from. I like to work in batches of 500 to 1000 and I store brass in a prepped condition, all of my 223/556 brass is sized, trimmed, primer pockets reamed and crimps removed, so when I’m ready I go progressively on my hornady press. The other day I loaded up 400 rds on a lazy Saturday
Morning. Ram shot tac and 62gn hornady fmj’s, holds a 1.5” at 100yds, 2780fps out of a 16” AR. Today my wife was shooting off a tripod at 200yds and put 10 on steel in a group the size of a tennis ball - with mixed brass

If you want to get real fancy, you can easily acquire Winchester or Lake city brass in reasonable quantities, sort by head stamp and load like you would for a precision gun,

 

[Misplacedtexan]

I also have the Hornady 62gr hpbt and am having trouble finding data. What data did you use?
Hornady manual list 60gr vmax and 62gr fmjbt same load data.
chris

 

[ms6852]

Price of loading 50 rounds of 5.56 vs. buying a Winchester white box may be a wash after the initial investment, but the ability dial in your loads (and the fun of reloading) makes the purchases well worth it in my opinion

With this statement you hit the nail right in the head. Reloading is about dialing in your loads for each specific firearm you own.

 

[flexible]

thanks everyone, great & helpful info. Another beginner 223 question - what's the different between small base & large base dies for 223?
thanks
flexible

 

[Chuck R.]

thanks everyone, great & helpful info. Another beginner 223 question - what's the different between small base & large base dies for 223? thanks flexible

IAW RCBS:

The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily.

I've got an use both small base and regular for AR15s and haven't ever had an issue with either. In theory the extra sizing with the SB dies should lead to shorter case life, but I use it on my 3Gun loading and that brass gets lost long before it wears out.

My AR15 varmint loads get loaded using a Redding FL bushing die and they function perfectly.

 

[z7]

thanks everyone, great & helpful info. Another beginner 223 question - what's the different between small base & large base dies for 223?
thanks
flexible

I use standard lee 223 does and my rock river arms and Daniel defense rifles eat whatever I reload and put in the magazine

small base won’t hurt you a significant amount in my opinion, but it also might not help or make any difference. Perhaps if you had a tight chambered 223 and wanted to throw range brass in it

 

[flexible]

had some rather serious medical issues and just getting back to this. Getting ready to set up. I bought the Redding National Match Dies and was wondering - i took the expander button out of my 6.5 Creedmoor & 6mmPPC dies and use a mandrel to open the neck.
This is to prevent working the brass too much.
Should i do the same with the Redding NM dies?
thanks
flexible.

 

[Walkalong]

It never hurts, but will it help, a small test is in order if you get it.

I am assuming for the setup in the opening post?

 

[flexible]

yes, same set up!
thanks

 

[Kaldor]

Lots of good info here.
FWIW, I run Hornady sizing and seating dies. I remove the expander from the sizing die and use a Lyman M-die or a Sinclair mandrel die depending on the purpose of the ammo and bullet Im loading. The stuff I load on my single stage I use the Sinclair on my MEC press. The stuff I load en mass on my LnL AP, I use the Lyman because I have a bullet feeder, and in this case I do give the rounds a light crimp to remove the very slight flare. These 2 setups have been proven to get my rifle down around 1/2", maybe a few smaller groups, depending on bullet and powder combination. Good bullets and extruded powders are generally more accurate than FMJs and ball powder.

I tend to shoot alot of cheaper bullets. Hornady 55 SPs and FMJs and 62gr FMJs are my go to for blaster ammo. A note on the 55 SPs, they are pretty accurate, so if you can find them, buy a bunch. RMR 69s and Sierra 77 SMKs are my bullets I use when I need accuracy. The RMR 69s are very accurate for the 15 cents a piece they are.

I just run standard CCI 400s. Ive never felt the need to use a match or mil spec primer, and Ive pushed some pretty wild loads. YMMV however, so work up as Im sure you well know.

Powders are pretty subjective. For accuracy I really prefer an extruded powder like Benchmark or 8208 XBR. Varget will work, but forget trying to accurately throw it from a drop. Ball powders are easy. AA2230 and H335 are my favorites. TAC is an awesome powder. Tons of good options out there. If its that burn range from about Benchmark thru Varget it will probably work. 223 is pretty forgiving.

 

[MakBaba]

Had some promising results using WC846 and CFE223 with Hornady 62 HPBT AND SP. 3 shot groups because I had a lot to test and wanted to keep the heat manageable. Will load some more for 5 shot groups to find the “keeper”
100 yards
Anderson AR w/ BCM SAM-R 20”