Reloads or factory ammo for accurate

[littlebob3]

I’m shoot a Sig 226 9MM and I’m looking for accuracy at 45 to 50 feet.
I been reloading for just under a year and have reloaded a few thousand rounds.
I have been using 4.1gr of W231 under a berry 124gr.
Last week at the range I was shooting IDAP and the instructor told me that I would get a better pattern with factory ammo than I do with reloads.
The reason I started reloading is that I was told it would be more accurate than factory loads.

I am sure this has been asked before… but here are my questions:
1) Is factory ammo more accurate that reloads?
2) In reloads is a lite load better for accurate that heavy load?
3) From a standing free hand, what accuracy should one expect with a 226 9MM at 45 to 50 feet or any handgun?

Thanks for any input

Littlebob3

 

[mizer67]

I am sure this has been asked before… but here are my questions:
1) Is factory ammo more accurate that reloads?
2) In reloads is a lite load better for accurate that heavy load?
3) From a standing free hand, what accuracy should one expect with a 226 9MM at 45 to 50 feet or any handgun?

1.) Possibly. A factory load may shoot better than a poorly tuned handload. I've never found a factory load to out perform a good handload, and a rare few that could equal one.

2.) Depends a lot on the gun, caliber, bullet weight and barrel. There is no hard and fast rule, that I've found with handguns other than very fast/hot loads usually give up some accuracy. Most guns and cartridges/calibers will have a sweet spot (or several) where they are most accurate.

3.) The gun is capable of <=1" mechanically at that distance. Each shooter is different, but I'd strive for 1.5", 5-round groups at that distance when working on pure accuracy. Accuracy combined with speed, for practical shooting is another story, but the GMs can do 2" @ 25 yards unsupported.

In my subjective opinion, your IDPA "instructor" is poorly informed.

 

[gahunter12]

The top IDPA shooters reload. 1) factory ammo could be, but not likely. 2) From what I have seen there's a accurate load on the high end and low end of a recommended min/max charge. 3) A lot depends on the shooter. If you are looking for better groups try some WST. I have been a W231 fanboy til this week. I worked up some test loads with WST for 40s&w, and 45acp. All I will say is Holly Molly!! It's like stacking quarters at 15 yrds.

 

[JimStC]

Loading your ammo is for two purposes:
1. Accuracy
2. Cost
My loads are consistent and predictable because they are the same every time. You build your loads to fit your gun and your shooting mechanics. No factory ammo does that for you.
Whomever said that factory ammo is better than home grown is suspect regarding their knowledge of ballistics and accuracy. Sort of like buying a suit off the rack or having a custom one made for you.......

 

[XxBulletBendeRXx]

Maybe the instructor was implying something else? Something like ""get some rounds to shoot here, **AT MY RANGE**, that have more power"" type of thing.... Hard to tell the circumstances.. other than the stated, factory rounds are beter than reloads from instructor.
IM just taking a shot here, but its just a thought, my thought to share....

 

[wingman]

instructor told me that I would get a better pattern with factory ammo than I do with reloads.

Just a wild guess here but instructor not a reloader.

 

[FROGO207]

Let the instructor try your handgun and reloaded ammo. He might see the light or you may just have a bad combo of components and truly be better off with something else whether it turns out to be a diffrent reload or factory ammo.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have never seen factory loads out shoot reloads if the reloader knows what he's doing. I have seen some reloades push plated bullets too fast and accuracy goes to pot. But normally reloads will produce the most accurate consistant groups. There is probably some very accurate factory ammo out there but who wants to pay $1/round for 9mm ammo.

I use WSF with all of my 124gr 9mm loads. I prefer the WST for my 45acp. It is extremely accurate and clean. With XTP's it will produce very tight groups like gahunter12 said. XTP's seam to be the most accurate bullet I have found in my guns. You will find that WST load data is scarce for the 9mm.

 

[Jim Watson]

Too general a question.
A good factory load like 9BP or XTP will likely be more accurate than a reload with bulk plated bullets. Cheapmart Econoball will be less accurate than a careful handload with a Sierra TM.
Cheap factory vs cheap reload as commonly seen at IDPA, who knows?

It depends on your application.
I am now loading Berry's 147 gr plated for its soft recoil and IDPA adequate accuracy.
If I wanted something for NRA slowfire, it would likely be a name brand JHP tweaked to hold the ten ring at 50 yards.

Have you shot the gun with different loads to find out for yourself?

 

[Nick93]

You are shooting IDPA right ? so who cares if the gun shot 0.5" larger group at 15 yards all of them will be in the A zone... If i were you i would reload 147 gr plated bullets (less felt recoil than jacketed at same speed) and WST or other fast burning powders this will give you the power factor needed and extremely light recoil

Reloads can be much more accurate than most of the cheap or even expensive factory loadings but it´s up to you, As i said i prefer to sacrifice a little of accuracy for much less felt recoil when loading for IPSC or other action type shooting but if I load for bullseye accuracy is the only thing that matters

 

[rcmodel]

At 45'-50' / 15-16 yards, who cares?

You could hit the target with a rock at 50'.

There has been an awful lot of NRA Bullseye matches won with reloads at 25 & 50 yards through the years!

Not to mention NRA Silhouette pistol at 50, 100, 150, and 200 meters.

I think the instructor has an ulterior motive of some kind.

rc

 

[Certaindeaf]

He just wants your brass.

 

[littlebob3]

Thanks to all for the information, I am sure all of it will help.
I have loaded 10 rounds with 10 different loads with Unique, WSF and W231, with W231 I got a titer group at 30 feet.

While I shoot IDPA I am starting to practice to shoot Bullseye… I don’t want to a champing shooter but would like to keep the holes with in 1.5” at 45’.
I have been thinking it’s the Sig 226 and that I may need a match 226X5, but that is a lot of money to just to see it that’s it.

Question, Could it be the OAL? I measured a factory load (UMC) and its OAL was 1.1120 I have been setting my to 1.1500.

Littlebob3

 

[rcmodel]

Could it be the OAL? I measured a factory load (UMC) and its OAL was 1.1120 I have been setting my to 1.1500.

Unless you are using the exact same UMC bullets the factory loads have in them?
You can't use the factory loads to determine the OAL with a different bullet profile.

Take the barrel out of your gun and use it as a chamber gage at the reloading press.

Seat as long as possible and still allow the cartridges to drop freely in and out of the chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling.

RN bullets will seat longer then TC or JHP bullets because the bullet ogive runs further back and will not hit the rifling as soon.


rc

 

[littlebob3]

Seat as long as possible and still allow the cartridges to drop freely in and out of the chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling.

(rc) As long as it cycles and chambers the next round from the magazine, is closer to the rifling the best?

I have put a RN Berry 124 gr bullet in an empty cartage and dropped it into chamber, then removed and I measured the OAL it to be 1.2450.

Littlebob3

 

[rcmodel]

is closer to the rifling the best?

In theory it is.

If the bullet is already centered in the rifling leade, it doesn't have to rattle around in the chamber getting there. Less chance of it getting cocked sideways a little.

GI National Match 1911 barrels are chambered so a 230 FMJ-RN is centered by the leade for instance.

And long (within SAAMI max length) almost always feeds better then short in most guns.

rc

 

[littlebob3]

(rc) I understand and I will try a few round set longer, thank you for your input.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I would say that today the factory ammo I have seen is far better than what it was say 30 years ago. Today you can buy some very high quality box manufacture ammo and even near hand made boutique ammo that is of handloader quality.

I tend to believe that the really careful handloader who is really up on his game and willing to invest the time and effort can still best a commercial outfit but it is not the slam dunk it was 30 years ago.

I find that in my loads, I tend to get better accuracy from mid to heavy bullets over light ones except in 357 sig. My 357 sig 229 sport loves 88 and 90 grn "screamers" as I call them. Very accurate!

As to your accuracy at 15 yrds, I consider myself a reasonable to ok shot but I have a lot of work to do. I would think you should be able to this level of accuracy offhand (no bench or brace) with your 226. 50 shots per target of course.




H&K P7 PSP with my carry ammo. (Rem 115 JHPs)



Les Baer PII 38 super, 50 shots, 15 yrds offhand.



Sig 210-6, 50 shots, 15 yrds offhand.

 

[Otto]

I was shooting IDAP and the instructor told me that I would get a better pattern with factory ammo than I do with reloads.

Go to Walmart, buy a box of Federals and see if he's right.
A Sig 226 with Federal ammo should easily print 1" groups at 15yds.
I own seven Sigs and they perform best with jacketed hollow points ...not plated or lead bullets.

 

[littlebob3]

Many thanks for all the help... you guys are the best!

 

[ranger335v]

1) Is factory ammo more accurate that reloads?

That depends a whole lot on your reloads. And your factory ammo too; crap ammo shoots like crap no matter who assembled it.


2) In reloads is a lite load better for accurate that heavy load?"

That depends on your firearm, not our opinon, but a lot of people are better shooters with light loads.


3) From a standing free hand, what accuracy should one expect with a 226 9MM at 45 to 50 feet or any handgun?

Expected accuracy for "free hand" shooting? I don't think that's ever been calibrated! (If my son in law wanted to shoot the side of a barn he'd better shoot from inside no matter what firearm he fired.)


"Patterns" are for shotguns, groups are for rifled guns. Anyone who speaks of groups as patterns has little grasp of what accurate shooting's all about. IMHO.

 

[Tom-C]

I will respectfully disagree with what a lot of the people are saying. 20 years ago you could always make reloads that outshot factory ammo. Today if you can make reloads that can outshoot Federal Match (45B) out of a 1911 you are very good, most cannot. The same goes for most of the match loads from the manufacturers. The problem is cost. Federal Gold Medal Match in 45 ACP is $55 for 50. I can reload for about 1/5 of that.

One of the questions you have to ask yourself is how much accuracy I need and am willing to work for. ISPC and IDPA do not require as much as Bullseye. The “gold standard” for Bullseye is 10 shots into 1.5 inches at 50 yards from a machine rest. If your pistol and load can do this you can shoot High Master. Spending a lot of time and effort getting better that that is helpful if you are in the running to be the National Champ, but if not you would be better off spending less time at the reloading bench and more practicing

No way to tell what velocity will shoot most accurately from any particular pistol with any particular bullet without testing. Testing can get expensive and time consuming. One 3-shot group tells you nothing. Multiple 10 shot groups or a 20 to 50 shot group (like Peter M did) tell the whole story. You can do as well for 5 to 10 groups (50 shots or so) as a machine rest, but you can’t keep it up all day. I just finished testing reloads for a S&W model 52 for Bullseye. 4 different bullets, three different loads and 20 shot groups. I picked the powder on what I had on hand (WW 231) and was recommended on various forums. Knew about what velocity should work (700 fps) and got bullets from various manufacturers that I saw good things about. Group sizes went from (20 shots @ 25 yards) 1.7 to 6+++ inches, but now I know what will work. Lots of people will tell you that this combination will do this or that, but when you ask them how many groups they have shot you get a blank stare

For what you can expect from any handgun and ammo combination? I would not carry a pistol that cannot put 5 shots into less than 2.5 inches @ 25 yards from a rest. Once you have bench tested your pistol then you know what it is capable of and now it is up to you.

 

[4895]

First thing I would do is ditch the Berry's Plated Bullets. I would buy a nice FMJ bullet from Zero or Armscor in the 124 grain range. I have found that 9mm likes to be pushed in the velocity category, and I don't think plated bullets are up to snuff for that.

If you haven't tried BLUEDOT yet, give it a shot. I don't have my load data in front of me, but I think a top end load gave excellent accuracy. It kicks a bit more as it is a slower powder, and the flame is nice, but I was shooting one hole 2" groups at 10 yards after about 150 rounds with that load. Only problem is after 400 rounds or so, it needs a cleaning. Good stuff.

 

[LTR shooter]

For accuracy shooting try some Hornady XTPs in your P226. I just picked up a P226 myself and the reloaded 115 XTPs with W231 shot well for me for the first time with a new load. I am also going to try some 124 XTPs next time. My compact 239 has always been accurate with XTPs.

 

[gamestalker]

If reloads are properly assembled, they will knock the socks off anything on the shelf, which brings me to the primary reason I ever started reloading 30+ years ago.

GS