Remington 700 hang fire problem

[Fred in Wisc]

A few years back, my Dad passed on to me his Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. It's from the 1970's.

I had it out at the range, and had a problem with about every 6th shot hang firing. I'd pull the trigger, and nothing would happen for a fraction of a second (or up to about a second), then the gun would fire.

Took it apart, cleaned a lot of oil residue out of the trigger assembly. (Probably there from me over-oiling everything when I was a youngster cleaning the guns.....). Same result, still hang fires.

Replaced the trigger assembly and firing pin. Got a Shilen trigger (very nice for the $) and a Calahan Speedlock firing pin. Used the proper bolt tool to install the pin, cleaned the inside of the bolt as well (minimally dirty). No apparent burrs in the bolt that would hang the firing pin up.

Still does the same thing. Maybe a little less often, but still does it. Can anyone offer some advice on what to look at next?

 

[rcmodel]

Is the ammo as old as the gun?
That would be the first & most likely suspect for a hang-fire.

Or do you mean the firing pin doesn't fall when the trigger is pulled?
That could be too-tight over-travel adjustment barely releasing the sear & striker part of the time.
But replacing the trigger should have fixed that.

I suppose it could also be poor stock bedding springing the action somehow, but that's pretty unlikely?

Or the notch in the stock for the bolt handle is not allowing the bolt handle to go all the way down into full lock position?
That would cause the striker to rub on the cocking piece and could cause a hang-up maybe.

Can you get it to do it with the action out of the stock?
If not, it's got something to do with the stock rubbing something it shouldn't.

rc

 

[mbonner]

Clean out the bolt body, firing spring might be binding in old gunk inside and slowing down the firing pin
Mike

 

[Clipper]

I would suspect the ammo first, not the gun. Try a new box. If the suspect ammo is new, make sure any you buy is of a different lot or manufacturer.

 

[Shimitup]

Can you post photos of the primers of the involved cartridges? I'd be curious to see them.

 

[Kenneth]

Firing pin protrusion? (.060 .065). Check your headspace also.

"Our wrongs we must right if we can through the Ballot Box, and if this fails us, through the Cartridge Box."


U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote;

 

[Fred in Wisc]

Thanks for the input gentlemen, deifinitely gives me some things to look at.

Some additional information: When firing is delayed, it is because the firing pin has not fallen yet, it's hung up on something. Sometimes I also get a light hit that does not set off the primer (Sorry forgot that yesterday).

Ammo is new reloads, they fire 100% in another gun.

Does that change anyone's diagnosis?

 

[elkdomBC]

some primers are harder than others, if your loads work good in another rifle, then there is either a dirt/debris issue inside your bolt or possibly your firing pin spring has become "soft",

extended periods of storage with the firing pin left in the "cocked position" the spring can "collapse" making the firing pin spring undependable,

a new spring is only a few$$ and takes just minutes to replace!

 

[X-Rap]

I bought a used 700 once that was so filthy inside the bolt that it wouldn't fire reliably, this is what i suspected when I first read your post until I saw that you had changed the fp. I'm guessing you cleaned it well when you had it apart?

 

[rcmodel]

it's hung up on something. Does that change anyone's diagnosis?

Nope.
What I said in post #2.

Modern Primers just do not cause hangfires anymore anyway.
They either go off, or they don't.

It is very very unlikely it has anything to do with hard primers, or old primers, or reloads, or headspace, or FP protrusion.

If the firing pin fall is delayed, it is something mechanical holding it from falling when the sear is releasing it.

You stated you had already cleaned the bolt inside, and replaced the firing pin & trigger?

So like I said before:

Can you get it to do it with the action out of the stock?
If not, it's got something to do with the stock rubbing something it shouldn't.

rc

 

[Fred in Wisc]

I'll pull it out of the stock and test with a snap cap.

Leaving for a hunting trip, so it won't be until next week. Youth deer season in WI this weekend, taking some friends including 2 teens that have not been hunting before. That should be pretty cool.

I cleaned the bolt inside, firing pin has been replaced with a new lightweight one, and I store my bolt guns uncocked to reduce stress on the spring.

Thanks again for the help gentlemen.

 

[rcmodel]

Just for the heck of it.
With the bolt closed, take a marker or lead pencil and mark a line along the bolt body next to the action rail.

Then take it out of the stock and see if the line is still in the same place, or if it is now hiding under the action rail?

If it is hiding, the stock cut under the bolt handle is stopping the bolt from closing all the way.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Well, I don't know about "modern" primers, but I sure know that I have had many hangfires with older ones. I had one batch of Canadian 1940 7.9 ammo that hung fire on almost every shot, sometimes as long as 2-3 seconds. I have had old .30-'06 ammo that hung fire repeatedly and for even longer periods. A friend had a hangfire with some old ammo and when he opened the bolt the round let go, damaging the gun, a BAR.

So, please, guys, don't tell me that there is no such thing as a hangfire and that any delay is due to grease in the bolt or some such. Hangfires DO happen and there is a very good reason for the old advice to not open the bolt right away on a misfire. Having a cartridge case blow partway out of the chamber or even let go in the air spraying brass and burning powder into your eyes can spoil the whole day!

Jim

 

[WardenWolf]

Take it to a gunsmith. There's clearly something majorly wrong with the gun that's beyond easy diagnosis. Right now you're in the "Keep replacing parts until it works" phase. This is very expensive, and also potentially very dangerous. If the gun is in an unsafe condition, adding a new, unknown component could cause it to become even more so, and will almost certainly make it significantly more difficult for you, or a gunsmith, to isolate and resolve the original problem. My advice: return it to original condition, as you received it, and take it to a gunsmith.

 

[Fred in Wisc]

Nah, would have done the trigger anyway. Firing pin replace was based on a guess that it was either a gunky bolt or the firing pin spring. But I had to order the bolt tool anyway, so I just got a new pin with it.

Not to argue, or be unsafe, but I'm the kind of guy that really sees it as a personal failure to have to hire help. (Except for computer stuff and welding- a man's gotta know his limitations).

 

[sugarmaker]

Was it cold out - like under 20 degrees? Both guns and ammo can have trouble there. Some gun oil turns into glue in even moderately cold weather. "Gun grease" is even worse. Are you shooting his old reloads?

I loaded 4064 into a .375HH and experimented with standard 81/2-120 primers. At 10 degrees the gun would hang fire badly, then a no fire. pull the bullet and alot of powder had fused into a white mass, smelled partly burned, but didn't fire. Magnum primers for that gun!

 

[Skyshot]

Since you said you had some light strikes on primers, I would take the firing pin out and polish the inside of the bolt and you said you replaced the firing pin but did you replace the spring also? I would check the pin hole on the face of the bolt, there could be a burr there also. Sounds like you have some drag on the pin ass'y after the sear disingages.

 

[clem]

You might have a factory defect, read the attached link.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2010-10-20-remington-700-trigger-cnbc_N.htm

 

[Mac's Precision]

This is a good example of getting back to basics. A person has to examine every basic action one by one and determine which one fails.

Firing pin travel needs to be verified. Examine for indications that it rubs anywhere. Black the firing pin with a sharpie and look for rub marks. Examine the pin tip to verify it isn't scuffing as it goes thru the pin hole.

Verify that there is adequate protrusion. Protrusion should be .010 less than the diameter of the tip. Related to this would be head space. Excessive head space can relate to shallow primer strike. It is unlikely that this head space suggestion would be the case unless the rifle had been worked on and chambered too deep. Reloaded ammo that has had the shoulder set back could induce a form of head space issue but again that is highly unlikely as fail to fire happens after about 40-60 thousands of an inch head space. I would verify it is correct but would say that it is unlikely to be the cause.

Examine the action of the sear and black it with a sharpie to verify that the firing pin isn't dragging as it travels.

One has to differentiate between delayed firing pin action and delayed primer ignition. IF the firing pin actuates properly and at the correct time then one has to diagnose why the primers are late to light. Shallow strikes likely would result in fail to ignite MOST the time. The lag you describe seems related to retarded firing pin action due to rubbing or the presence of gooey waxy lube in the bolt body that has gone unnoticed.