Remington 700 XCR bore pitting issue

[wvishome]

Hey folks. New to this forum, although I've read quite a few threads on here before.


I'm having an issue with a recent Remington 700 XCR that I purchased. I got the gun from GunBroker.com....kindof. I found the listing there and it claimed that it was a NIB rifle. I called the shop (Little Crow Shooting Sports in MN) and the guy told me that he had stocked up on these and still had quite a few in the 7mm-08 in stock....8 I believe. He said it was brand new, and he sold me the gun over the phone to avoid the GunBroker charges (saved me $25).

I cleaned it, mounted my new Nikon Monarch 22.5x10-42 scope on it and headed to the range. It was late, so I was only able to get it sighted in at 50 yards. Looked pretty good.

A few days later, I went out to 100 yards...and it was terrible. That day I don't think I did better than a 3-4" group. I tried the 140g Rem. Core-lokts, the 139g Hornady SST's and the 150g Federals. Nothing would group. Now, the sun was in my eyes and it was hot....so I came back another day.

This time I was able to keep the groups down to about 2-3"...but none of the ammo would group. Occasionally, I'd get 2 shots about 3/8" apart, but then it would throw one bad like 4" off (I'm 90% sure it wasn't me). The Hornady SST's would put 2 touching and then drop one as low as 5".

Needless to say, I took it home and started really looking at it closely. I noticed there were a LOT of smooth pits/depressions in the bore. Looking down from the muzzle, I can count at least 15 of these in the first few inches of the barrel (as far as I can see down it).

I contacted Remington and complained. The first thing they said when I gave them the S/N is "This rifle was made in 2007, are you sure it's new?" YES, it absolutely was. They seemed hesitant to believe me. Anyway, they took down my complaints of "accuracy" and "barrel pitting" and sent me a shipping label.

They had it just over a week. They lapped the barrel, shot it and sent it back to me. The target they provided showed a 1.1" 3-shot group. Not bad, but not great, as one was a flier.

Anyway, I look down the barrel and the pitting is still there (I'm guessing some of them are a couple thousandths of an inch in depth.) At this point, I'm very unhappy about the barrel. I think this is a poor quality piece and either should be rebarreled or the entire gun replaced.


Here is the email I sent Remington on Monday and the pictures I sent them. I'd like to get you guys' opinion on if I'm right that this is a bad piece, or if I'm just being too picky.

Hello,

My name is Scott and I need to speak with somebody about my Remington 700.


I purchased this brand new gun on 8-16-2012 from a dealer in Minnesota. After an initial cleaning and a trip to the range, I noticed an accuracy issue with this gun.


Upon cleaning and inspecting the bore, I noticed several pits in the bore surface in the first few inches of the barrel. I sent this gun back under a warranty claim for accuracy and bore pitting issues (Repair # RE00282714) during which the barrel was lapped and returned to me.

Nothing was done to address the bore pitting. After lapping, the pits are actually more evident than they were prior to lapping.



I am attaching 4 small pictures that I was able to take with my digital camera of some of the pits closest to the muzzle. See the attached pictures to understand what I’m talking about. These pictures depict a cluster of 5 or 6 pits that are approximately 1” from the muzzle of the bore. As you can tell (even in these poor quality photos), these pits are rather sizable, have significant depth and occur both on the lands and the grooves. With the naked eye, I can count at least 15 of these imperfections in the first 6” or so of the barrel.


I am very unsatisfied with the quality of the barrel on this gun. I would like someone from Remington to contact me to discuss this issue and our options for a solution before I ship the rifle back under the subject service request.


I can be reached any time of the day on my cell, 908-XXX-XXXX, or at this email address. Please have someone contact me within the next 24 hours to discuss this matter.


Sincerely,

 

[azgsmith]

700xcr

If i am right the XCR has that plastic stock that is too flexible. That is most likely the root of the problem. I will keep this short so you can do the rest of the research.

 

[wvishome]

I understand the stock is junk, and plan to replace it with a thumbhole and glass/pillar bed down the road....I just don't want to do it with a junk gun.


I'm concerned about these pits in a new barrel. Is pitting like this acceptable?


Note-I've shot rifles all my life, but this is the first I've ever bought.

 

[NOLAEMT]

if Remington shot it and got a 1" group with it, i doubt they will do anything else with it, that is more than acceptable accuracy for a factory rifle. I wouldn't be happy about the pits either, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do anything about it. Remingtons quality as of late has been dropping, and i guess they feel that this is an acceptable product

 

[Z-Michigan]

1) That doesn't look like corrosion pitting to me, it looks like either machining marks (which I wouldn't expect in a CHF barrel like the 700 uses) or damage marks from poor cleaning technique. You didn't happen to look at the bore before your first shooting of this rifle, did you?

2) A 1.1" 3-shot group sounds within expectation for this type of rifle, especially with the original stock. Though of course a 3-shot group can be almost random and I'd rather have a 10-shot group or a series of 5-shot groups to assess the real accuracy. I think a number of people using hunting rifles like this exaggerate the accuracy and may lead people to have unrealistic expectations of real-world accuracy, especially when some popular writers basically cherry pick their best 3-shot group and say it can do 0.5 MOA when in fact most groups were more like 1.5 MOA.

3) You stated:

I got the gun from GunBroker.com....kindof. I found the listing there and it claimed that it was a NIB rifle. I called the shop (Little Crow Shooting Sports in MN) and the guy told me that he had stocked up on these and still had quite a few in the 7mm-08 in stock....8 I believe. He said it was brand new, and he sold me the gun over the phone to avoid the GunBroker charges (saved me $25).

Well, actually, you got the gun from a shop that was happy to cheat Gunbroker out of its fee, and you were happy to go along with that. Sometimes when the other party is offering you a discount by doing something shady, you should assess whether they are being completely honest and forthright with you. It could be that this rifle was "NIB" but had sat in the shop's storage room for 5 years, and maybe it picked up some corrosion just sitting there. Who knows.

 

[highlander 5]

Those marks look more like machine marks than pitting. You might be able to fire lap out the marks but as others have said 1" groups for a factory barrel are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[wvishome]

1) That doesn't look like corrosion pitting to me, it looks like either machining marks (which I wouldn't expect in a CHF barrel like the 700 uses) or damage marks from poor cleaning technique. You didn't happen to look at the bore before your first shooting of this rifle, did you?

I did look down the bore before shooting, because I cleaned it first. I am 100% certain I didn't cause the pitting by cleaning. I've only used the Fast-Snap cable cleaning system on it and have only cleaned breech to muzzle. I can't say they WERE there before my first shot, but I wasn't looking for imperfections...I was looking for cleanliness. Nothing I've done could have caused this.

2) A 1.1" 3-shot group sounds within expectation for this type of rifle, especially with the original stock. Though of course a 3-shot group can be almost random and I'd rather have a 10-shot group or a series of 5-shot groups to assess the real accuracy. I think a number of people using hunting rifles like this exaggerate the accuracy and may lead people to have unrealistic expectations of real-world accuracy, especially when some popular writers basically cherry pick their best 3-shot group and say it can do 0.5 MOA when in fact most groups were more like 1.5 MOA.

I tend to agree with this. Remington told me that a 2" group is "within spec" for them.

It's not terrible, and that's with one brand of factory ammo. It's entirely possible the "flier" of the group was due to an 'off' round.

Well, actually, you got the gun from a shop that was happy to cheat Gunbroker out of its fee, and you were happy to go along with that. Sometimes when the other party is offering you a discount by doing something shady, you should assess whether they are being completely honest and forthright with you. It could be that this rifle was "NIB" but had sat in the shop's storage room for 5 years, and maybe it picked up some corrosion just sitting there. Who knows.

I don't think that's exactly a fair statement. They would have happily paid the fee if I hadn't bothered to call first....but since I was on the phone and wanted it, why not save the hassle of dealing with a 3rd party? He still had a bunch more of the same exact rifle to sell, so he left the posting up.

But, yes, this most likely "sat in the storage room for a few years" is true. It was mfg'd in 2007 and I bought it in 2012.

I do know that it was new though....it still had the factory 'film' on the exterior parts and never had a scope mounted on it. Everything in the box was there and where it should have been and the box had the original un-cut tape on it.







Like I said....there isn't just 4 or 5 of these things.....I counted at least 15 going down as far as I could clearly see, which is only a few inches. My fear is that the entire bore looks like this. To me....they looked like metal imperfections as opposed to tool marks.


I guess what I'm wondering is.....is this worth pressing Remington about? They sent me another tag and my g/f actually just took it to the UPS store a little bit ago.

To me, this isn't necessarily an "accuracy issue" (althogh I suspect these defects don't improve accuracy)....it is because of what I believe is poor quality.....

.....but being a new "owner" as opposed to 'shooter'.....I'm wondering if those more experienced believe this is either a real defect, or me being overly picky.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I think this is a defect relative to a high quality barrel, but the 700 is basically a consumer-grade hunting rifle and I think this may be within the quality expectations for that model rifle.

People who build precision 700's end up replacing everything except the action. A high quality precision barrel costs about what you probably paid for the whole gun.

If your skills and intended use require greater accuracy, I think you either replace the barrel or sell this (with disclosure) and move on. If 1.5 MOA or so is good enough for your intended use, I'd just keep it. That level of accuracy is good enough for most hunting purposes other than small varmints at long range.

Cleaning damage could have been done by anyone who attempted to clean it, not just you. But your recent post indicates the box was still sealed, so that would mean either the factory or you. Looking at the patten and all I'm now thinking this was probably a defect in the rifling (hammer forging) process.

I have one or two barrels with a couple of similar marks inside the bore. I don't like them but I've never found that those barrels shot differently within my use.

 

[wvishome]

Thanks Z.

I don't require better, but I'd sure like to be more confident if I run across a 200 yard shot at a trophy. I honestly expected more from a higher-level 700...otherwise, I would have just got a cheap SPS instead of the pricey XCR.

It's on it's way back to Remmy now, so it's in their hands. I wrote on the paper I want a re-barrel or a replacement. I'll let ya know what they say....

 

[wvishome]

Just wanted to update you guys. I sent the gun back to Remington for the second time and asked for a rebarrel or a replacement.

They agreed to replace the gun. When I called, they said there was an order in for an "XCR, 7mm-08, 24" bbl"....I informed them that it was a discontiuned model. He started rattling off what they had in 7mm-08, so I chimed in. I told him that I'd prefer one of the new 700 Mountain SS rifles. To my surprise, with no hesitation he asked if that was my preference. I told him yes and he said he'd make the note. He said they're in production now, so it may be another week or two before they can ship one out.

I haven't received the gun yet, but the fact that Remington didn't try to weasel out of this went a LONG way to restoring my confidence toward them. I've heard lots of people bash Remington for QC lately...but they stood behind their product and offered to make it right. That's all I could ask for.

I'll post a review of the Mountain SS when I get it. Can't wait!

 

[adelbridge]

thats great they made good on their warranty. those marks appeared to be linear and uniform, definitely not a corrosion pattern.

 

[MtnCreek]

I bet they give your rifle to someone else as a replacement for their warrantee work…

 

[chaser_2332]

IMHO I think it was a over reaction to a non issue. No factory barrel is going to look like a hand lapped custom barrel. Remington took it in did what was needed and sent a target back proving a MOA rifle.